More like, when you have to pray the mana gods to even cast something T1 and T2 and T3 etc...Originally Posted by boneclub24
The deck is so bad it isn't even fun. And i tinkered for years with stompy variants, there is just no reason to use tombs and cities to cast spells when colored spells are just better 99% of the cases.
Honestly, it would be so much easier if there were no colors in magic.
Then we could actually judge a card's power level without being baised based upon that card's color.
And we wouldn't be so concerned by the fact that certain decks run more of one color than another. We would actually understand why certain cards are being played over other cards, instead of certain colors over other colors.
Honestly, cards should have been color coded based upon their type (instant, sorcery, enchantment, creature) rather than by their effect. That way there would actually be a functional difference between the five colors rather than an arbitrary one based upon the different dual lands you happen to run.
For some reason, I am reminded of other card games out there.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
This doesn't really make Brainstorm any different than it already is, though. Even if issues of mana color went out the window, I still don't think every deck would be 'the best Blue effects in the game'. We'd still be picking the 60 best cards for our particular gameplan.
As it stands, there are non-Blue decks not splashing for Brainstorm and Blue decks not running it. Compare that to ever-present win condition Tarmogoyf. How often in deckbuilding is it a bigger mistake to not splash for Goyf than it is to not run Brainstorm?
I know this is late in the discussion, and slightly off-topic, but I just wanted to say:
1) We're very happy with Legacy Attendance,
2) Think Legacy is a fantastic constructed format with a generally healthy metagame
3) Will continue to support Legacy as the main event on Day 2 of our Opens and
4) We have continued to see Legacy attendance grow over the course of the past year!
Our support of Modern over 2012 at the Open Series will be in the form of Modern Challenge events, much like we have the Legacy Challenge event on Saturday night. The Modern Challenge events will be in addition to the already-existing events, so no Legacy events will be replaced (IE, we will still have the Legacy Challenge on Saturday, and we will continue to have our Legacy Opens on Sunday!)
- Ben Bleiweiss
- Director of Sales, StarCityGames.com
This is reassuring. Thanks for your and SCG support of the Legacy format!
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
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Seems on topic to me, keep up the support for Legacy and I'll keep coming to Opens when I can.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
Good, watching Modern was pretty boring.
Awesome, thanks for the information.
Ben, I'm so thankful that you exist.
Now hurry and win the lottery so you can buy out wotc and remove the reserve list.
No dont ban brainstorm. I want this Snap/Stoneforge-Controldecks to be everywhere - So I can crush them with my SneakShow...
:)
I think TheDarkShineKnight is right though. Brainstorm fights variance and variance is the reason why a lot of decks lose to them selves. Luckily, we have Sensei's Divining Top, which is a colorless solution to the problem. That said, I believe that we need color-specific cards that help each color's consistency. Green Sun Zenith and Sylvan Library do what Brainstorm does for Green.
The problem of red is that they always tack on the 'discard at random' on its cantrips. Cards like Gamble, Control the Court/Goblin Lore, and Desperate Ravings are some examples. This nullifies the consistency, which lets those cards function badly. IF they had made Snapcaster Mage red, it would make more sense. You could play with cards such as Gamble and use Snapcaster Mage to cast the discarded spell. Even though this might still not be competitive enough, it would make a lot more sense to do this. The best card red has right now, is Burning Wish, but that card is simply bad. The reason for this is because it costs twice as much as brainstorm and gives 3 times less cards than Brainstorm. It clutters your sideboard and does nothing against bad topdecks (which is important for planning your game in the longterm).
White doesn't have anything to show for either. Tithe and Land Tax function differently. They give card advantage, but do not help reduce variance (Technically they help increase the value of your topdecks, but you still have no control over it unless you're using something like Brainstorm or Scroll Rack in conjunction.
Black has little to manipulate its library. It has tutors, but those suck for the same reason as Burning Wish. The only thing tutors really help do is to fuel degenerate combo decks. Grim Tutor, Entomb and Infernal Tutor are all combo cards. Mono black is reliant on Sensei's Divining Top and can do so in conjunction with Dark Confidant, but this costs 4 or more mana (top, confidant, and at least one activation). This compares pretty badly with Brainstorm and even then Brainstorm is simply played in conjunction with Dark Confidant.
The only colorless options we have right now are Birthing Pod, Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack. Those simply don't measure up against something as efficient as Brainstorm.
What we need is topdeck manipulation that is very colorpie specific and narrow. Green Sun Zenith is a great example of this. It doesn't get any other creatures except for green ones, so you can only play it with green creature strategies. Silver-bullets such as Scavenging Ooze dramatically increase GSZ's viability.
I think it's a little bit silly to call Burning Wish "simply bad".That card is a tutor that searches for the one card you need while Brainstorm gives you access to the top three.
The argument you used against it applies to stuff like Demonic Tutor as well and I don't think anyone believes that is bad.
Exactly. But then you can judge whether or not Brainstorm is too powerful without simply saying "it makes people run too many blue cards in their deck". The real question should be "what does Brainstorm do during the game that makes it so powerful, and is it too powerful?"
People run so many blue cards because blue cards give players much needed effects. If Brainstorm was printed in red or green instead, players would still run the card because the effect is the same. What matters is not the color, but what the card itself does.
The only time color really matters is either in pauper (where going 2-color can be difficult) or in standard, but in legacy color is hardly ever an issue. Maybe if Force of Will, Brainstorm, Jace, Daze, and Snapcaster were each different colors it would matter, but this is of course not the case.
Doesn't it seem entirely logical and intuitive that, given the rising power level of Legacy, a card restricted in Vintage will eventually need to be banned in Legacy as well?
No. The formats are pretty different.
I don't think Merchant Scroll/Gifts/Thirst/Lotus Petal/Ponder/Trinisphere will be getting banned any time soon either.
Still, pointing to other formats is legit. Merchant Scroll has no Ancestral Recall to get, Lotus Petal no Y. Will, 3-Sphere no Workshop, Gifts no Will, Lotus, Recall insanity. For Brainstorm both formats have Fetchlands as the main synergy.
About Ponder: This card is actually an argument to ban Brainstorm. Legacy is in terms of power level somewhere in between Vintage and Modern. Not only is Brainstorm not allowed in either Modern or Vintage (obv. BS would be banned in Modern if it was printed with a Modern frame). Both formats even decided to ban a card-quality cantrip that is about a hundred times worse than Brainstorm. I wouldn't mind to see Ponder banned alongside Brainstorm, but first things first.
I wouldn't mind Brainstorm banned if Ponder/Preordain didn't follow it. If they axed them all, I'd be quite annoyed and I'm sure if they took out Brainstorm, the rest wouldn't be far behind since they are the obvious replacements.
I do kind of want to see Discard become useful again. Thoughtseize and Hymn have turned into more of pre-emptive counters than discard spells anymore and that's sad. I kind of miss the old Pikula style decks.
Pointing to other formats is not legit.
If your argument is that Brainstorm should be banned in Legacy because it's banned in Vintage and would be banned in Modern my counter argument is that Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage for the same reason Thirst for Knowledge and Ponder are banned in Vintage. When so many cards in your deck are so good your only allowed to run them as a 1x you don't want to give players too many ways to dig 3 cards deep. I don't think you'll find too many people calling on Ponder and Thirst for Knowledge and Gifts Ungiven to be banned in Legacy. If that argument was valid there would have been no reason to separate the banned lists. As far as Modern goes, fuck Modern. That banned list killed the format and is the last thing I want the Legacy banned list to be compared to. 78% of Legacy players can't be wrong on this one. That's a pretty epic majority of people saying "Don't ban Brainstorm" and the format is just fine right now.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
What I would like to see is something that makes sphere strategies viable in legacy. Ancient tomb and City of Traitors are not enough to imitate workshop decks, because its not consistent enough. Note, I am not talking about the stax or workshop aggro archetype per se, but the ability to play with sphere of resistance, lodestone golem and thorn of amethyst. I'm also not saying Mishra's Workshop should be unbanned. Spheres keep combo in check, and make cantrips significantly worse. Cards like Wild Nacatl are predators to spheres, because they come down early and are fast enough to kill a player dropping spheres before he can stabilize. Wild Nacatl is also good against lodestone golem.
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