All B/R update speculation.

[nedleeds]

Pithing Needle is still highly effective against SotF. Backed by Lavamancer = no mana dorks for you!

(I wouldn't even touch Vengevine if SotF was unbanned. I'd go for Turbo Survival Elves :)

Good point, and again if you go back and look at the top 16 lists the people crying about SotF never even packed Pithing Needle. Core blue players just hate packing removal.

I remember when control decks packed removal/defense like this:

4 Disenchant
2 Moat
4 Swords to Plowshares

[(nameless one)]

It's wierd but having Brainstorm banned gives me that feeling that the following cards will be acceptable in the format:

Mystical Tutor
Survival of the Fittest
Land Tax
Frantic Search

[Gheizen64]

It's wierd but having Brainstorm banned gives me that feeling that the following cards will be acceptable in the format:

Mystical Tutor
Survival of the Fittest
Land Tax
Frantic Search

I'd like imperial seal/vampiric (imperial only if reprinted) before mystical unbanned honestly. Vampiric is not that better than mystical in combo when the only cards you can't get in combo are lands (usually irrilevant) and LED (crucial) (there's also, arguably, xantid in TES but whatever). Add to that that vampiric isn't blue (relevant for hivemind/painter and reanimator that play ~20/22 blue cards), cost life (relevant for ANT and reanimator) and that can be played in rock-like decks where they can fetch for silver bullets meaning it isn't a card only for combo (i'd love to play vampiric in rock like decks with singletons like bojuka bogs or smth to fetch for, also monoB reanimator old-school ftw). It would probably end being rebanned anyway, but at least it wouldn't be one-dimensional as mystical would.

That said, i'd love to see an instant B demonic intent or plunge into darkness printed.

[Vacrix]

Do you really want everyone and his mom to be playing Vampiric Tutor just to counter play what the opponent searches for with their own Vampiric Tutor?

[(nameless one)]

What about Demonic Consultation?

[Vacrix]

I'd play it in storm combo in a heartbeat. I think it would be pretty powerful if LED were still legal. In SI it would be so dope. Belcher would probably play it as well... and ANT/TES variants.

[menace13]

What about Demonic Consultation?

Consultation is really, really fukin good, obv statement, i know, but the card puts it into hand at instant speed for 1 mana. We had it unrestricted at a point on MTGO Classic and it makes the fair decks totally unfair. Think of decks like Team America that have all spells as 4 ofs and it becomes frustrating to play against a deck that answers everything at any given time. I think it is the best tutor for decks without a lot of singeltons.

[Gheizen64]

What about Demonic Consultation?

Demonic for B? What about no?

[Vacrix]

Consultation is really, really fukin good, obv statement, i know, but the card puts it into hand at instant speed for 1 mana. We had it unrestricted at a point on MTGO Classic and it makes the fair decks totally unfair. Think of decks like Team America that have all spells as 4 ofs and it becomes frustrating to play against a deck that answers everything at any given time. I think it is the best tutor for decks without a lot of singeltons.

Yeah the reason this game and format are fantastic is because magic is like a real time chess game (because of the stack) but its not a standardized chess board; the board develops as the game goes on and you get to pick your pieces before you even sit down. If all the pieces are queens and rooks then what happens to the game? I'd say it can almost be as generic as checkers at that point, which is exactly why we need a banned and restricted list. Its not necessarily to punish the best deck builders are put down the best cards but to maintain the uniqueness of why people play Legacy in the first place.

The better tutors we have access to, the more decks will revolve around those tutors. Even without bombs like LED, decks will still gravitate toward cards that massively improve consistency AND real-time response options. Brainstorm is actually a perfect example; decks gravitate toward blue because Force of Will makes storm combo slow down (integral part of the format, especially post-AdN) and play protection while Brainstorm allows the deck to quickly throw back unwanted cards for something to take advantage of tempo plays. I mean is Brainstorm REALLY a psuedo-Ancestral Recall when you can play fetchlands to throw away useless cards? Sure it doesn't give you card advantage but U for the best card quality instant speed filter we have access to is just about as close as we will ever get in Legacy to a Power 9.

[wizard_of_gore]

when is next b&r announcement ?

[thefringthing]

when is next b&r announcement ?

Dec. 20th, I believe.

[nedleeds]

What about Demonic Consultation?

2nd best tutor ever. Unlikely to come off the list EVAR.

[Rizso]

Consultation is close to being the best tutor ever when able to play 4ofs, it was a powerhouse when in extended for many years ago played 4 Demonic consults, 4 dark rituals, 4 necro. Its really close to the power of demonic tutors when you are allowed to play 4 of majority of cards in your deck. Mystical Tutor and Vampiric Tutor would go of the banlist before Consultation would.

[Admiral_Arzar]

When is the next banned/restricted list update happening? December 2nd?

Dec. 20th, I believe.

Read thread plz.

[DragoFireheart]

Read thread plz.

I really don't know how I missed that.

[death]

In 12 days.. (in order of decreasing probability)

1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Brainstorm
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Entomb

[Gheizen64]

More like:

1 - Nothing
2 - Mind twist unbanned, random river of words on why this useless card still matter
3 - Land Tax unbanned, wall of text of why this card will break legacy and then see 0 copies in all T8 of 2012 tournaments
4 - Black Vise unbanned, wizards say this is the most insane decision they ever made when the unbanning of time spiral is 10 times more relevant
5 - Brainstorm banned, because wotc apparently hate blue but print flying nacatls for U and flash eternal witnesses for 1U

[dontbiteitholmes]

In 12 days.. (in order of decreasing probability)

3 Lion's Eye Diamond

Didn't you hear? Tom LaPille's gone so you might as well move that to 10+ where it currently belongs.

[I am the brainwasher]

More like:

1: Brainstorm banned, because they we can justify it due to polls/data/analysis and want to pull players towards the Modern-format.

2: Earthcraft unbanned, bla bla bla, we make a teaser out of the most irrelevant card. Ever.

3: "Land Tax unbanned, wall of text of why this card will break legacy and then see 0 copies in all T8 of 2012 tournaments" - Gheizen64

4: Profit



No conspiracy theory included but I guess thats what is going to happen, even it should be looking like THIS:



1: Show and Tell banned. Explanation why Magic isnt about decks that require the IQ of an drunken monkey and that this is the reason why Reanimator cant be hated out effectiveley. Plus beeing the most redicolous 2 card-combo-piece and rofl why Earthcraft was banned while S&T beeing legal.

2: Snapcaster Mage banned. Apologize that they even thought about this card beeing blue and had the impudence to really let that happen.

3: Earthcraft & Landtax unbanned. All hail the kitchentable!

4: Break the reserved list and give away FNM-promos that are worth to waste your friday night for, turning gaudy cards in front of the most bizarre people instead of tapping something for real... .

[Admiral_Arzar]

No conspiracy theory included but I guess thats what is going to happen, even it should be looking like THIS:

1: Show and Tell banned. Explanation why Magic isnt about decks that require the IQ of an drunken monkey and that this is the reason why Reanimator cant be hated out effectiveley. Plus beeing the most redicolous 2 card-combo-piece and rofl why Earthcraft was banned while S&T beeing legal.

2: Snapcaster Mage banned. Apologize that they even thought about this card beeing blue and had the impudence to really let that happen.

3: Earthcraft & Landtax unbanned. All hail the kitchentable!

4: Break the reserved list and give away FNM-promos that are worth to waste your friday night for, turning gaudy cards in front of the most bizarre people instead of tapping something for real... .

Win. I lol'd at "IQ of a drunken monkey." That reminds me, I need to sell my Show and Tells...not because I think it'll be banned, but because I hate the card. Completely agree with #2 as well.