You guys were right. I had consistency problems only running 4 Infernal Tutors. I added 2 extra cantrips, but some games 3 cantrips failed to find me an infernal.
I think I like lordotms Build (3 cabal rit, 4 dark rit, 4 RoF). Is that considered TNT? I historically don't like TES's fragile manabase. I feel like burning wish can add even more resilience to the deck than even grim tutor.
I think that I will add in RoF and 4x Burning Wish, dropping Chrome Mox from the build. I will probably run 1 EtW sideboard as well as an additional tendrils + grapeshot (wishboard).
Current Decks:
Legacy:
Spiral Tide
Goblins
Lands
ANT/TES
Dutch Stax
Modern:
Vintage:
I've just picked up this deck (along with Doomsday) and I'm enjoying the UB version because of the rock solid manabase. The list I'm using is pretty standard (1 ANT, 1 IGG, 1 Tendrils) with the exception of Cabal Therapies that I'm testing in place of Thoughtseize.
Could someone suggest a sample sideboard for an unknown meta? Is a transformational Doomsday sideboard an idea worth considering?
A sideboard must contain of:
- A number of bounce/creature removal: Chain of vapor/E. Truth/ Slaughters Pact
- Addition disruption protection: Extra thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy or X. Swarm/Tropical Island
Any other slots would be slots dedicated to hard matchups: Such as Dark Confidants/Extirpates/Empty the warrens/...
Depending on the metagame a doomsday transformational sideboard could be useful (against a CB/Discard heavy meta).
It however requires a lot of sideboard slots. So I personally wouldn’t recommend it most of the time.
Hope this helps.
I'd highly recommend Carpet oF Flower in a Thresh-like/Tempo meta. This is bunkers.
I did make one, and that did happen. I'm not going to rewrite a primer though.Originally Posted by mojoiskewl
Back before I made the switch to Doomsday I also played straight UB and yes, the manabase is the best thing that ever happened to combo.
The sideboard I used to run (and one that I think would be pretty amazing right now with the surge of waste.stifle.tempo.delver.dec) is:
1 x Tropical Island
4 x Xantid Swarm
3 x Carpet of Flowers
2 x Chain of Vapor
1 x Echoing Truth
1 x Slaughter Pact
1 x Deathmark
2 x Extirpate
Good luck (especially with DDFT)
I have not tried out Carpet, yet. I also think the manabase can support a third color which I decided to be white right now. It gives you chant and chant is propably the best protection at the moment. I think it helps a lot in matchups that take your life away pretty fast and also disrupt with a bunch of taxing spells or stifle.
In aggro matchups it can at least keep them from playing another thread for a round and aggro should not be our most important concern anyways. Also IGG gets a LOT better and much more viable in any matchup and due to the increased number of Tempo in the Metagame you might need to go off on a low lifetotal some games.
I've chosen 7 Chants to be solid once again. 1 Scrubland and 1 Tundra loosen up the manabase not to much since 3 Basics is still a good number to operate with.
The DD Sideboard makes not a lot of sense right now. At least that's my impression. Counterbalance is way less established as it used to be. Sacrificing 6 Slots for a single matchup that's unusual seems a bit to much.
My SB looks like this atm:
3 Bob
3 EtW
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Extirpate
3 Extirpate are obv. for the Reanimator matchup. It's close to unwinnable and is very popular where I play. So I think that's propably right. Haven't tested it in reality though. I constantly try out new things. EtW + Chants seems to be an overkill and messes up the mana, but I am not sure what to cut and I feel both are great right now.
I'm really reconsidering Xantid Swarm as a mandatory slot in Sb. The meta is becoming more and more Thresh-like (wtf, The Source takes "*****" as "trash" word) and tempo. Merfolk is into oblivion. You never want to side-in Xantid against Snaper.deck and Thresh.deck since they tend to keep in a lot of removals. Same issue against heavy control deck.
Running more Carpet/SpotRemovals for hatebears and maybe slots against the new-rising CB.deck would be more relevant I think.
Opinions?
Just as an aside that is off-topic. People had a major tendency to misspell Threshold and Thresh, and it annoyed the modstaff to hell and back, thus they implimented a filter to block it out anytime people typed it wrong. It wasn't so much that it's a bad word filter as it is a "learn to spell" filter.
More on-topic, though it's more echoing what has already been said: Carpet is amazing in a heavy threshold metagame. When I was still playing Storm combo, it singlehandedly won me games that I had no business winning.
Team Albany: What's Legacy?
You cannot know the sweetness of Victory, without first dwelling in the agony of Defeat.
Haven't been a DTB in a while..... wonder what put us over the top as doomsday and TES have been doing well also
More players = more numbers.
GP Amsterdam had a couple of ANT/TNT lists in the top 32. People tend to count both Decks as one and since the Thread here is for both it makes sense.
Well Bryant is correct. A Deck to beat has to have significant number or it's top tier obviously, but no one has to face it, so no one has to beat it -> no DTB...
Decks I play and/or care about:
LED - Dredge
I'm quite confident in Liam's TNT build, I think if it gets enough play time this thread can deserve the DTB status :)
Cheers.
Sorry for this kind of question, but the dbt status was achieved for ub or ubr version?
Both I guess.
I took some time off from ANT to try out TNT this afternoon (i had tested with the deck twice this week). The list was 74/75 of the list Liam ran in Vegas (I made one cut in the board for Empty the Warrens). The way it's constructed makes it it extremely powerful to use with Past in Flames. I cast Grape Shot for 53 in game (65 gold fishing before the tournament)... I felt the difference in the stability of the mana base versus BUG which cost me a game. However, Burning Wish was awesome all afternoon and I surprisingly didn't miss Grim Tutor. Going forward, I'd either play Liam's list or the list from the GP Top Eight. I think ANT is still a fine deck, but there are so many better things to do once you step outside of the traditional UB list.
With regards to TNT, do you think it could be better to play four IT's main and sideboard a grim? IT is just so awesome main deck this seems like it could be wise?
I found that the higher density of rituals made it easier to combo off with Burning Wish into Infernal Tutor or Burning Wish into Empty the Warrens. Surprisingly, Engineered Explosives and Pyroclasm effects are at an all time low so doing a bad Blecher impression isn't a terrible game plan on occasion. Additionally, I can recall several games that ended up like
Turn One: Cantrip
Turn Two: Burning Wish for Infernal Tutor
Turn Three: Discard effect, combo out
I've played approximately twenty matches with the deck, but I can only recall a hand full of times when I could not find the necessary pieces to win because I had Burning Wish but needed an Infernal Tutor.
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp
It is very rough, but I kind of like it.
Liam: If you were going to play TNT tomorrow, would you be on the Probe/Therapy plan? Why or why not?
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
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