Because it is both discard outlet and draw spell. The chance to hit a godly hand using 8 careful is too good to pass. I know it is not a BT, meaning you won't always win the game after casting one of this, but it will be close, and it still fixes hands like a champ.Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Suboptimal.
Too much fancy stuff like FKZ plus Sphinx in the maindeck. I'm not sure if he wanted to play DDD all the time with this list, cause only 4 Imps as discard outlets and the high amount of Dredgers and Ichorids seem to indicate that. Then Phantasmagorians wouldve been better than the Dr targets.
I'd still go with the entirely gold mana base and play or Tireless Tribe. The sideboard is pretty much a mess, but such a Worlds is also a pretty unusual tournament.
@ Faithless Looting:
Apart from obviously being awesome (and a 4-of imho) in LED lists, I'm still not sure how good it is in LEDless. It might be worth playing them over Tireless Tribes. That's pretty much the only slots I can see where Looting could find a place (not over Study, Breakthrough or Coliseum). That would make the list even more explosive with 4 additional draw effects. On the other hand, you often want the continuous dicsard effect of the Tribes, especially post board. Also, as a turn 1 enabler Looting isn't as reliable as the dork.
We'll see. But it's definitely a very good option (if it's real).
But he has 8 discardoutlets.
4 Imp
4 Study
In addition 4 Breakthrough.
Ok, to the manabase, i think you're right, with your comment about the goldlands.
K1w1
I think he was referring to continuous discard outlets.
Out of curiousity, I'm planning on taking 4eak's DDD list to the SCG Invitational NC and I was wondering if anyone had tested Memory's Jouney vs. Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave in the board? I will definately be packing one of those packages, but I am having trouble deciding which.
Well, I've only tested Purify the Grave/Coffin Purge, but Memory's Journey seems too slow if you'll only have the chance do hard cast it on turn 3 (if you have the 2 lands).
Good luck on the tournament, I hope you can post your thoughts here afterwards.
Again, I'm barely liking Coffin Purge, but the card is miles better than Journey. I really don't understand why anyone is still comparing Memory's Journey and Coffin Purge.
Memory's Journey does a handful of things that Purge can't, but it costs 1 more to hardcast (which is a serious deal). If you don't think 1 mana is a serious deal in Dredge, ask yourself if you would play a 1cc version of Tolarian Winds (the answer is a simple "hell yes"), and then ask yourself why you'd never play it at 2cc (the card simply costs too much).
Costing 2 means that with only 2 lands in play, you have to slow yourself down (and you can't cast spells) in order to leave mana open for Memory's Journey. If you have 2 lands in play, Coffin Purge still allows you to play your major spells without giving up the ability to Purge.
Cases where Memory's Journey is better than Purge when responding to Surgical Extraction on Ichorid or Bridge (the targets that really actually matter, although there are exceptions):
- You have 1 or more Narco's in the GY and mana costs don't matter (they usually do).
- You have 2 or more CC's as your only lands and you have Memory's Journey (rather than purge) in hand.
- You must draw into a card and hardcast it, and you increase those odds by shuffling copies of that card from you GY into your library (rare corner cases here).
- Obviously, there are hilarious, once in a lifetime, and ridiculous corner cases: your opponent counters your first Journey/Purge, and before resolving their 1st SExtraction, they make the mistake of putting another SExtraction on the stack (targeting something else), and you use another or Flashbacked Journey to shuffle the targets of both SExtractions.
I should note that Journey actually has use with Narco's even if there are no SExtractions. This meant that you opponent didn't see their GY hate or you've got the wrong anti-GY hate boarded. In the first case, you usually should be winning, and this bonus of Journey is very minimal. In the second case, Journey's bonus here has variable utility, but generally isn't much better than Coffin Purge.
You get the point. The only serious advantage is shuffling Narco's back in the library. How much utility is gained from that? Usually some, but is it enough to be worth the cost? A significant portion of the time, I'm seeing Extraction played very early in the game, even before I have a Narco in the GY. I'm hoping I don't have to explain all the cases in which Purge is clearly better than Journey. Let me just say: Purge is castable earlier and more easily, it doesn't soak up tempo, and (related to cost) I'm more likely to be able to cast it twice (which is important against permission).
peace,
4eak
Thanks for the input, I’ve actually already decided it's just awful though. played a small tourney and it literally did nothing for me. I got to shuffle my bridges back in once in response to the remove trigger. 2cc is way too rough.
Last edited by dredgekid; 11-22-2011 at 12:17 AM. Reason: misspellings
Has anyone seen it?
Faithless Looting has been confirmed by Monty Ashley. The card will be printed in Dark Ascension as a COMMON
You can read it here:http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...ily/arcana/847
I guess time for LED's is right now.
And I'll find room for them in my LEDless list too.
Holy Crap! Got to buy my LED's back ):
This is some hot news for Dredge imo. That card is really strong and might find room in both lists.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I really can't see why you people are so excited with Faithless Looting.
Ledless:
Can not cast it with CC. And removing it to fix mana base, make the exchange pointless.
Led:
Is it so greater than DA beacuse of "discard 2"? Also, you wouldn't be able to DA AND CC.
I agree on LEDless, where it will have trouble finding a place.
However, it is miles better than DA in LED lists because it saves you the 3 life, discards two after dredging and because you can easily hardcast it as a full Careful Study from your hand. All LED could wish for.
And what do you mean by 'you won't be able to DA and CC'. Did you mean Looting instead of DA and refer to the fact that you can't do the 'turn 1 LED, play land, Looting (crack LED in resp), dredge a few and flashback the Looting afterwards'-play if CC is your only land? That would be true, but still. You can't hardcast DA at all, so that isn't really an argument for Looting not being better than DA.
I think he was referring to the on the draw play of LED builds that goes: play CC and LED. Crack LED for UUU and activate CC. Then Flashback DA with the remaining UU.
I mean that by cracking LED for UUU you can DA and use the extra U for CC.
Yeah, like that happened a lot.
Faithless Looting can easily replace Tireless Tribe's slot in the main deck. Fixing draws or trying to get some Breakthrough off the top seems pretty good to me. Perhaps the only drawback is not being able to flashback Therapy in moments of despair.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I believe we'll need more brainstorming in order to fit Faithless Looting in the LEDless build. I wouldn't just replace my Firestorms (Tribe's slot) for them ever. Maybe it's more like 4eak and Final Fortune proposed, a fresh list without the old paradigms.
For me, the way to explode both coliseum and loothing is running Eternal Witness as Dr target. She allows us to crack LED for UUU with CC and retrieve breakthrought to amplify the combo, this is old fashion. Or you can just cast loothing then crack led for RRR to flashback. All in all, if you go for UUU it doesn't matter if Faithless Loothing appears, you can reanimate witness and use the mana remaining in pool or go for RRR and go off via loothing.
Chek it out.
GC.
Sun Titan>Eternal Witness
Off course no, but if you wish...
But they bring each other back from the graveyard :3
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