Ban on Brainstorm: Yes or No (Post Snapcaster Mage)

[Oiolosse]

You could use that same argument for any card. "omg i drew x card i win!"

My point is that just because you drew Brainstorm doesn't mean you instantly won. SotF did this, Flash did this, Mystical Tutor arguably did this, Brainstorm does not do this. It's power level is not comparable to cards that have been banned because of how game breaking they are.

No, it's not an OMG I WIN NOW! (excluding some combo scenarios) card. Brainstorm decreases variance and it's most evident in the long run. If you played Brainstorm for 10+ rounds you're allowed to say, OMG I WON MORE OFTEN THAN EXPECTED!

[death]

Saying Brainstorm = 1 x card is an understatement because you can draw 3 fresh cards off it if played perfectly which can also be tantamount to a win. It is a situationally potent card and truth is no expert here would admit it and vote Yes because the card is a tool that is too valuable to lose.

[TheRedBaron]

Legacy is balanced right now... take a look at the latest SCG results... It doesn't seem like anything needs fixing to me... It's not like Brainstorm = Power Nine... everyone can run this card if they need too... I don't get it. Availability and cost is a non-factor. And No, Snapcaster doesn't see play in EVERY deck unlike Mental Misstep did. If you refuse to use brainstorm... Play belcher or maverick, etc. If you are using a blue deck and refuse to use brainstorm... you're a bad player lol... Legacy isn't for you.

[ivanpei]

Legacy is balanced right now... take a look at the latest SCG results... It doesn't seem like anything needs fixing to me... It's not like Brainstorm = Power Nine... everyone can run this card if they need too... I don't get it. Availability and cost is a non-factor. And No, Snapcaster doesn't see play in EVERY deck unlike Mental Misstep did. If you refuse to use brainstorm... Play belcher or maverick, etc. If you are using a blue deck and refuse to use brainstorm... you're a bad player lol... Legacy isn't for you.

Obviously forgetting Merfolk right? lol. Latest SCG results is perfectly healthy. I have this gut feeling that Aether Vial is MASSIVELY underplayed right now. Even with the power of Snapcaster, Vial's ability to pump out dudes quickly and pass counterspells is insane.

Goblins is not seeing play, Merfolk just barely. I think there is room for some sort of Wx deck with Vials, SFM, Mom splashing for Bob/Goyf/Snapcaster. I've had alot of success with Wb Vial aggro which is basically weakest against Zoo. Since Zoo is a non-factor now, these kind of decks should do well in such a heavy Blue environment.

People have to respect how dangerous a T1 vial is. People are generally ban-wagonners. Innovative/"out of the box" decks don't see much play if the pros aren't playing them. But that doesn't mean they aren't good. I also think a stable Metalworker deck is also pretty good. They are plenty of good decks without Brainstorm that just aren't seeing play.

Let's just put the topic to rest, I don't see Brainstorm getting banned anytime soon.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Are people being sarcastic and I'm missing it? Latest results have 7/8 of the top 8 running Brainstorm, and the lone Maverick list doesn't advance.

[menace13]

I don't see Brainstorm getting banned, ever.

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

Brainstorm is very important to Legacy.

More people like it than don't and it does nothing broken on it's own. Every year it's something different on the forums... Ban LED, ban Fetchlands, ban Show and Tell, ban Goblin Lackey...

Leave Brainstorm alone and stop looking at Legacy in a fishbowl. If you have played Legacy for ANY AMOUNT of time and think Brainstorm needs to be banned, then you are doing it wrong to the extreme.

[workingdude]

Are people being sarcastic and I'm missing it? Latest results have 7/8 of the top 8 running Brainstorm, and the lone Maverick list doesn't advance.

Merfolk list, as always, did not run brainstorm as well. Might as well complain about FoW, which had more copies in this top 8.

[TheRedBaron]

Are people being sarcastic and I'm missing it? Latest results have 7/8 of the top 8 running Brainstorm, and the lone Maverick list doesn't advance.

Your point? Do you hate having a consistent deck?... Brainstorm is NOT Mystical Tutor, Mental Misstep, Survival of The Fittest. You get 2 see 3 cards, net 1, sometimes net 2 if you're playing specifically High Tide or some deck to filter out useless cards/lands, but these decks require other engines entirely. It's also not expensive... $1.00 each... It's worth splashing blue for brainstorm and Force of Will in most cases. If you ban something like FoW and/or Brainstorm.... then everyone is going to complain about how 'belcher' is overpowered, or something else will rise... Just the potential to see FoW + brainstorm (you don't even have to own any) keeps Turn 1 decks at bay. Have fun with your belcher/Pact SI metas if either one gets banned lol

[Tao]

Merfolk list, as always, did not run brainstorm as well. Might as well complain about FoW, which had more copies in this top 8.

This is not a Force of Will thread. There are plenty of arguments to keep FoW in the format. If you want to discuss FoW do it in a FoW thread and don't derail the topic.
The point is that people used a tournament with excessive use of Brainstorm (75% use the full playset) as a statistical argument to support their opinion that Brainstorm does not need to get banned.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Your point? Do you hate having a consistent deck?... Brainstorm is NOT Mystical Tutor, Mental Misstep, Survival of The Fittest. You get 2 see 3 cards, net 1, sometimes net 2 if you're playing specifically High Tide or some deck to filter out useless cards/lands, but these decks require other engines entirely. It's also not expensive... $1.00 each... It's worth splashing blue for brainstorm and Force of Will in most cases.

You're right, Brainstorm isn't any other card but Brainstorm. It's also not Headless Horseman, more's the pity.

I don't hate having a consistent deck. I hate a format that's so inbred and lazy that people use "consistency" as a term for "running Brainstorms."

[TooCloseToTheSun]

You're right, Brainstorm isn't any other card but Brainstorm. It's also not Headless Horseman, more's the pity.

I don't hate having a consistent deck. I hate a format that's so inbred and lazy that people use "consistency" as a term for "running Brainstorms."

So stop bitching about it and make a better deck. Don't try and get cards banned because you personally don't like them. Obviously most people like brainstorm in the format.

[TheRedBaron]

You're right, Brainstorm isn't any other card but Brainstorm. It's also not Headless Horseman, more's the pity.

I don't hate having a consistent deck. I hate a format that's so inbred and lazy that people use "consistency" as a term for "running Brainstorms."

Ok, how about they just ban all the good cards (staples)? Then you may as well play standard.

Brainstorm
Force of Will
StP
All the 1 mana tutors (etutor, worldly etc.)
Emrakul
Natural Order
Show and Tell
Mox Diamond
Jace
stoneforge
Snapcaster
Lightning Bolt
Dark rit
Æther Vial
... etc, etc, etc.

LOL

[Gheizen64]

So stop bitching about it and make a better deck. Don't try and get cards banned because you personally don't like them. Obviously most people like brainstorm in the format.

Ok, how about they just ban all the good cards (staples)? Then you may as well play standard.

Brainstorm
Force of Will
StP
All the 1 mana tutors (etutor, worldly etc.)
Emrakul
Natural Order
Show and Tell
Mox Diamond
Jace
stoneforge
Snapcaster
Lightning Bolt
Dark rit
Æther Vial
... etc, etc, etc.

LOL

First class content, new, original, and especially backed up by reasoning and content.

Pretty classy job calling the other lazy and using LOL.

[TheRedBaron]

First class content, new, original, and especially backed up by reasoning and content.

Pretty classy job calling the other lazy and using LOL.

Sorry. Laughing out loud.*

I'm sure one can argue in either direction. I just don't understand "lazy and inbred" if you are to use a very well established card like Brainstorm. Be my guest. You are welcome to use Counterspell, Ponder, Preordain, Personal Tutor, etc. No one is stopping innovation, Brainstorm is just very good. Card draw and tutors in this format are paramount... It IS a card game you know. Undeniably Brainstorm is a staple in every U or X/u deck, if you have a problem using a staple, simply don't use them or wait for wizards to print something better (don't hold your breath.)

[TooCloseToTheSun]

First class content, new, original, and especially backed up by reasoning and content.

Pretty classy job calling the other lazy and using LOL.

Do you have a point to make or are you just spamming and trolling.

My point is that the poll indicates people like brainstorm in the format, and IBA has a problem with brainstorm for "personal reasons". He has no evidence that brainstorm should be banned except for cherry picked data from just recent SCG events. If he wants people to stop playing brainstorm, (they NEVER will) he should make a deck that gives people a reason not to instead of just whining about people playing brainstorm.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I don't have a problem with Brainstorm being a staple in blue decks. As I discuss in the other thread, all colors have staple cards (even, to a lesser extent, red), that you pretty much want automatically in that color, and that serve as the primary reason to go that color in the first place.

I have a problem if a color is necessary to win in Legacy, and there's a lot of evidence that suggests that Brainstorm is basically necessary to win a large tournament at this point. This is, in short, troublesome.

[jrw1985]

Just a little context to add to the discussion! Here's the card pool that Brainstorm first appeared in:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?color=|[U]&output=spoiler&method=visual&set=[%22Ice%20Age%22]&sort=cmc+

[menace13]

IBA- It is not at this point, it has been that way in every single GP. Every 1st place deck has had either BRainstorm or FoW or both. Blue will always be the best color in eternal formats.Why call for the ban now and not 6 GPs ago?

[Gheizen64]

Do you have a point to make or are you just spamming and trolling.

My point is that the poll indicates people like brainstorm in the format, and IBA has a problem with brainstorm for "personal reasons". He has no evidence that brainstorm should be banned except for cherry picked data from just recent SCG events. If he wants people to stop playing brainstorm, (they NEVER will) he should make a deck that gives people a reason not to instead of just whining about people playing brainstorm.

My point is that you (and that other poster) didn't obviously read the thread. I made countless topics and posts on this argument, i've debated about this for literally hours of my free time on this forum, and yet people like you arrive and post nonsense that has been debunked time and time again only because they're lazy and didn't read the 1 thousand threads that have been popped up about this argument the last months. And then call the other lazy? That's some hypocrisy right there lad.
If you don't want to read 1 thousands threads about a subject, you're free to do so, you just have to understand that if you arrive and write a thing, probably it has already been written, and you'll be called out for this. It's just natural and it bring nothing to the discussion, and it's annoying.
But no, it must be me trolling.