Based on the data in the latest installment of Too Much Information, TES has an average EV (aggregate matchup win rate weighted by the prevalence of the matchup) over the past four opens of 49.84. Not too impressive, but to be fair, the sample sizes are not very large.
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
I gotta say this deck is about the most busted thing one can do in Legacy. I just built the deck, and in my limited testing and starting on the low end of the learning curve, it's been nothing but bonkers. The learning curve for this deck is so high that its aggregate performance is irrelevant. Not many people play the deck to start with, and still few of those are actually skilled with it. I played SI for funsies a few tournaments and playing with four Black Lotus feels good even in a crappy version of the Storm deck. Everyone touting Chant effects is right, that's the way to go [right now]. Wonder why I didn't just build the deck from the get go...
Storm player quality is way too high variance for their sample size to be conducive. I did the math once for ANT, in events I played the archetype was something like +10% to win matches.Originally Posted by thefringthing
Here's my report from the SCG Open.
Criticism appreciated.
On Topic now....
Playskill and feeling for the deck are a huge factor... as well as decks being almost TES lumped in, when they are inferior versions with terrible performance.
Tested a few preboard games against my friend's UW stoneblade deck today.
All I must say that life is pretty easy when they only run FoW/Spell pierces instead of stifle and daze.
Also got to use Rite of Flame the first time today, a few turns after having my T1 rit, rit, AdN FoW'd.
Too bad there's still a lot of Merfolk in my meta...
I've got two small questions about the stock list presented in the primer. Maybe Bryant can answer them.
If we're going to play four blue fetchlands, why aren't they fully diversified? The stock list has 2x Polluted Delta that could just as easily be 1x Polluted Delta + 1x Misty Rainforest. Is the idea that the ability to masquerade as Team America for a turn is worth it? If it is, why not just play 4x Polluted Delta? How often do you imagine our fetchland would get Needled if we did this?
Second, why do you like this particular mix of bounce spells the best? Echoing Truth to pick up two Chrome Moxes is a nice trick, but Chain of Vapor seems like it has the best impact to mana cost ratio. Why not have 1x Wipe Away, 1x Echoing Truth, and 1x Chain of Vapor?
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
Because it doesn't really matter? Run four one ofs. What stock list are you speaking of? I run 2 Scalding Tarn, 1 Bloodstained Mire, and 1 Polluted Delta because it's what I own Japanese Foil.
Chain of Vapor doesn't bounce Chalice of the Void. It's an issue.
But how often do you really see Chalice of the Void at an event?
The bottom line isn't how often. Your sideboard needs to be versatile, you can run echoing truth just as easily as you can Chain, and it solves more problems.
I would say that chlice is becoming more popular again, since MM is gone. Besides RUG, I saw a metric shit-ton of aggro loam at SCGSTL. We even added chalice to the SB of my friends rock deck, because it's so efficient.
Sorry, I mis-remembered which fetchland it was. Fair enough.
Good answer. Thanks!
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
I done went 2-2-1 at a Big 1.5 tourney today with Bryant's list for the most part (-1 Grapeshot -1 Silent Departure +2 Deathmark). I had the chance to top eight with a win in the last round, but got fucked by Canadian Thresh. The field today was a bit light because of a bunch of people traveling and playing in the SCG Invitational, including my former high school ultimate frisbee coach Martin Lohman, who was sporting the greatest (drunken) haircut I'd ever seen this past Thursday (I hope he's still rocking it for the Invitational). I beat fellow Team Jack member Jack Lange w/ Maverick 2-1 (the loss due to flipping Tendrils and Ad Naus #2 with Ad Naus), Rock 2-0, drew with Lands (Tendrilsing for 40+ with PiF since he had Zuran Orb out G1, losing to Trinisphere and Wasteland G2, and making a small mistake G3 that cost me the win), lost to CounterTop Thopters 1-2 (beating an active CounterTop G1 with Empty the Warrens for 6 and a Tendrils for 6, losing G2 when I was forced to cast Ad Naus after he fetched up EE to blow up my four artifact sources of mana when he had a Top, no cards in hand, and had just shuffled, only for him to find a Daze in his top two, and scooping to him G3 after the five extra turns since he had a dominant board position), and then lost to Canadian Thresh 2-0.
The mistake I made in game three against Lands was not making sure I wouldn't draw the second Ad Nauseam in my deck after I EOT Brainstormed the second copy away when I had both in hand. I fetched before my draw step instead of redrawing the blank I put on top. I couldn't immediately utilize any non-AN storm engine since he had an active Crypt out, so I was depending on casting one with IT and LED mana. I drew the second AN on my turn unfortunately, which forced me to waste an Infernal Tutor so I could get enough mana to cast it the next turn. That line left me open to Wasteland, but my opponent hadn't played one yet, so I figured it was better than relying on drawing a mana source; even if he did find one, I could still draw any non-Chrome Mox mana source and still be able to cast AN. My opponent then dredged into Wasteland, and I bricked on a mana source. He followed it up with Canonist the next turn, which pushed the game long enough to go to extra turns. My turn four Dim. Returns couldn't get there, and it was a draw.
Also, I made a questionable line of play against Thresh, but I think it was correct. I Brainstormed on my third turn into AN with Chant up, but with no mana floating, 18 life, and after already having played my third land. I went for it that turn, instead of waiting on another storm engine or possibly doing it during his turn, and died to AN after finding zero initial mana sources and flipping the second Ad Naus. I had BW in hand, but I figured that that was the best possible time to go for it since he was completely tapped out and would have had a flipped Delver bashing me.
All in all though, it was an incredibly fun day. All of my opponents were awesome, the Lands and CounterTop matches were both extremely fun, and I traded for a shit-ton of poop for my EDH Azami deck. I had cut Grapeshot, but after having faced another Maverick deck today, I think I'm going to cut one of the two Deathmarks for it, leave in the Wipe Away, and not run Silent Departure since Reanimator hasn't been nearly as popular over the past few weeks. I was boarding in 2 Deathmarks and 2 Echoing Truths against GSZ decks, but I think a 1 Deathmark, 2 ET, and 1 Thoughtseize plan should do just fine.
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Went 4-1 at a local today, Pretty much Bryant's list MD
SB is -1 thoughtseize +1 departure, and I had meltdown over spree for some reason (never used it anyway)
R1: Some weird mono-G build
Grapeshot for 20 G1, went off G2
R2: merfolk
G1 he mulled to 5, I kept a land with rituals and cantrips, never found business
G2 and G3 he only had dazes and cursecatchers which I easily played around
R3: Bant
G1 I mulled to 4, hand was still crap, died
G2 Had Tendrils in hand, 4 lands, 2 LED, played ritual (pierced), rit in response, Forced, used my other 2 lands for burning wish, crack LED, bin tendrils, past in flames, win
G3 Kept a hand that could duress and go off T1 if I drew one more mana source (petal, petal, LED, duress, inf tutor, ritual, brainstorm). Guess what I didn't draw :(
Apparently he didn't have any counters T1, then drew 2, so if I went off T1 I would have won. However, I didn't want to play into dazes AND FoW's against a bant deck on the draw.
R4: Zoo
G1: He went down to 12 on a sylvan library, had 2 bolts and lethal on the board in conjunction, but I went off before he could.
G2: My hand was Land, Petal, Rit, Rit, LED, rite, duress
Obviously I drew the ad nauseum for a T1 kill to make up for last round.
R5: Enchantress
G1: Went off T2, Grapeshot for 20.
G2: I sided Chants out for bounce, then somehow sided them back in. He started with leyline, I made 18 goblins, he dropped confinement. I then drew burning wish, saw my bounce in my sideboard, and scooped.
G3: He mulls to 6, but starts on a leyline
Turn 3 I draw chain of vapor, bounce leyline, duress taking his confinement, make 12 goblins
My next turn I draw wipe away, hit him for 12
he manages to get another confinement due to having 2 enchantress effects and a sanctum, but it gets Wiped Away.
Finished 3rd in swiss after 5 rounds.
Going goblins against enchantress seems incredibly loose, as all that deck can deal with is creatures. E truth would let you take your time and build up and bounce any number of his leylines, as he really just doesn't interact with you.R5: Enchantress
G1: Went off T2, Grapeshot for 20.
G2: I sided Chants out for bounce, then somehow sided them back in. He started with leyline, I made 18 goblins, he dropped confinement. I then drew burning wish, saw my bounce in my sideboard, and scooped.
G3: He mulls to 6, but starts on a leyline
Turn 3 I draw chain of vapor, bounce leyline, duress taking his confinement, make 12 goblins
My next turn I draw wipe away, hit him for 12
he manages to get another confinement due to having 2 enchantress effects and a sanctum, but it gets Wiped Away.
Congrats on your finish regardless
Matt Bevenour in real life
Well, in G2 I wouldn't have won regardless as I forgot to side in bounce (derp)
G3, he already had an enchantress, and I managed to duress his confinement. His only out is another enchantress effect + a second confinement, as I'm sure he doesn't keep elephant grass postboard (he boards in like Nevermore, 2 stony silences, 4 leylines)
Rather than durdle around and let him drop sterling grove I decided to pressure him. If I didn't make that play, chances are I would have been confinement + grove locked out of the game. He also had a stony silence already.
Basically, he ended up drawing a grove which he had to sac to get a second confinement, and I had the wipe away for it.
He'd need double grove and confinement, as he can't stop you from just Ad naus'ing into all your bounce, then winning. Especially with past in flames in board, you can generate the mana to bounce a bunch of things and still just grapeshot them if you want.
Matt Bevenour in real life
That is true, but I would have to draw into one of my 2 AdN's naturally, as he has already locked my LED's with stony. He's far more likely to get double grove than I drawing my AdN. He already had 8-10 mana due to his sanctum.
Double grove just makes it downright unwinnable due to them giving each other shroud.
I've played this match-up a ton. It's almost a free win for us, I don't understand why you're struggling so much.
He kept the best anti-storm hand with T0 leyline, stony silence, confinement, double enchantress hand, whilst I kept a hand that was sort of slow.
I should have mulled down to a more aggressive 6 so I can AdN him before he can lay down any more hate.
Btw, that was the first time I've played against Enchantress. We don't get that much legacy down in Auckland.
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