As stated before, now that there is no Mental Misstep in the metagame, I think the OP deck is the better starting point instead of the one from Chris Renner. It (the OP deck) has arguably 2 flex slots, and so I wanted to discuss some options:
I often think Daze and Force aren't enough counterspells. But I don't like Spell Pierce nor Spell Snare, as those aren't broad enough to warrant MD action. Stifle I can get behind, as it can add to the mana denial strategy or do some fancy tricks. Anyway, I believe the best cards are blue creatures - they are enabled by Vial, pitch to FoW and can carry Equipment.
Phantasmal Image seems good in those flex slots, as it can legend-kill both Progenitus and Emrakul, and can be Vialed in to fight Iona and other Legends as well. It is better than affording that one Karakas just to have it Wasted more than to get it used (Karakas feels like a nonbasic Plains far too often). And (obviously =P) it can copy whatever the best creature on the battlefield is.
Delver of Secrets is just another beater. I'd test it, but I think there are fancier options. Besides, this deck does not have many ways to ensure it becomes 3/2 reliably, as usually it has 4-6 slots dedicated to Equipment and Vials, and the cards other than FoW, StP and Daze usually are either lands or creatures.
Snapcaster looks to be subpar in this deck. Lack of targets to Flashback other than Swords and Brainstorm make me think it is not that good here.
Spellstutter is one of my favorite Equipment-carriers, because it adds some critical mass for the counterspells as well (as stated, I feel FoW and Daze alone aren't enough sometimes) and isn't reliant on other Instants in the deck.
But Meddling Mage is better than Sprite when one knows what to name: Ad Nauseam, Show and Tell and Life from the Loam are some of my most-often named. Unfortunately, it is more of a SB card.
As I had a hard time deciding between Image or Stutter, I chose to run both and move the Grunts to SB, alongside the Meddling Mages. It gave me 10-12 counterspells (sometimes I cut 1-2 Seers, or 1-2 Moms. I like having the full set of those though), more cards to pitch to FoW and a cheap, MD answer to Progenitus and Emrakul. On the other hand I lost Grunt and whatever hopes I had of fighting Dredge or Loam recursion Game 1. I try to compensate that by dedicating the most SB slots to graveyard hate. If those, alongside the rise of Snapcaster-enabled strategies, become more popular, I think I will favor Phantasmal Image over Sprite, and run Grunt MD.
I've had some recent success testing geist of st traft in the flex spots. Haven't been playing the deck as much lately but he is a solid creature especially with a mother of runes.
In reference to dredge, one of the ways to get rid of their bridges if you run image is to copy mom or something and then have mom target it. It's a waste of an image, but it could also keep you from dying.
The better play is to let image copy no creature as it comes into play. Therefore it stays 0/0 and dies as a result leaving your mother untapped for later use.
That's true, I hadn't really read the card in a while and couldn't remember if it was "may" or not.
You f*cking c*nt of a bulletin board!! Somehow, my session just ended in the middle of posting when I wanted to preview, and Firefox teamed up with VBulletin to eat THE MOST INTERESTING POSTING IN THE WORLD(*) so you shall not have the joy of reading it. I could cry. Well, actually, I could bitchslap the fuck out of my machine and the server this is hosted on, and then vomit all over it while it's trembling in pathetic fear and trying to ward off my utter brutally emission of violence by use of its feeble metal coating. BAH!!
(*): regarding UW Tempo
Anyway, I don't have a copy of what I just wrote, and Firefox is too dumb to get the data out of the POST request that he just knowingly fired a few seconds ago. Did I mention I was annoyed and angry?
Now, to make things quicker this time: piloted UW Tempo feat. Batterskull and Meddling Mage to 3-1 yesterday, losing to Delver Threshold 0-2 because I was screwed/dumb, and winning against UR Snapcaster Burn (2-1), UW Snapcaster Stoneblade (2-1) and Imperial Painter (2-1) due to me and the deck being awesome. I don't feel like typing down the list now for a second time, but if anyone feels interested in specifics, let me know.
Would you mind to post down your decklist? The latest one on this topic belongs to the Misstep-era. I'm just curious about how this deck has evolved from its glorious Forbiddian and theotherguy era, back when I used to play it. I might give it a spin back, I'm craving for rogue shenanigans.Originally Posted by colo
Also, how's the Maverick matchup? It's the main costraint that mumbles me when picking a deck these days. That shit is so popular here.
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Avatar of kicks_422's creation and property
Here we go (list is from memory since I'm at work right now):
MB:
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Fathom Seer
2 Meddling Mage
2 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Island
SB:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Spell Pierce (suboptimal for sure and actually entirely debatable: Flusterstorm surely is better, but I'm thinking about changing those 2 slots altogether - probably for at least one slot of additional gy hate)
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Chill
1 Null Rod
1 Serenity
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Aura Flux
I think this deck can capitalize on SFM-Batterskull at least as good as UW Stoneblade can - it can protect Mystic by means of countermagic AND Mother of Runes, it has amazing drawing power to find answers and the business its pilot needs. The fact that there'll always be another critter around to strap some sort of equipment onto, and it's not limited to a Germ token or SFM herself to actually win the game, makes things look even better.
Jotun Grunt is a house in the metagame these days, as he deprives your opponents of Snapcasterable spells in their graveyards. Meddling Mage shuts out Snapcaster (or, in response to Snapcasters target announcement, that target from being replayed if coming off of Vial) quite well too.
I haven't faced Maverick yet, but I think it'll be a tough matchup. "Fair" decks with a strong aggro plan (and a bag of tricks of their own) were always everything but easy with UW Tempo (but def. winable), and I'd be surprised if that had changed by simply adding Batterskull to the equation. If Maverick is such a strong factor in your metagame, you probably want to have Hibernation and/or Submerge in your 75 when leaving the house.
Last edited by colo; 12-10-2011 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Spelling improved.
How about Moorland Haunt in this deck? Seems like a decent way to get value from dead creatures as a 1-of.
Submerge definitely helps, but I don't think UW Tempo is really all that well positioned in the metagame right now. With RUG Tempo being on everyone's radar I think players are readjusting to anti-Tempo deck strategies. People are prepared for Wastelands - and are packing substantial basics, Stifles, Nobles/GSZ->Arbor. Creature removal is very prominent - Bolts, Plows, Snapcasters targeting them, etc. There's just a lot of cards seeing play right now that UW Tempo doesn't want to see and additionally there have been several recent printings that have helped other strategies, leaving this deck falling behind a bit (Delver, Snapcaster, GSZ).
This isn't meant to dismiss the deck all together, rather to put it aside. The meta will continue to shift, a new printing could totally boost this strategy, just not seeing it right now.
@from Cairo: I'm not entirely up to date on what the US metagame looks like right now, but here in Central Europe I don't feel like bringing a knife to a gunfight, really. I playtested my build a bit on cockatrice and dominated Delver Threshold two times (I'm not saying this is statistical evidence to support any kind of argument about UW Tempo matchups, but it def. makes me feel more confident about the matchup), and in my local meta, the matchup worrying me the most is probably Reanimator (we've got everything represented from time to time, from the usual suspects like Dredge and Maverick to more exotic specimen like Enchantress and Mighty Quinn). The Snapcaster problem is one you can work around, an doing so will have your opponents end up with a 2/1 flashy bear for 1U - not likely a deal I'd consider.
Hey,
New poster. Played a UW tempo list to 3-1 in the scg legacy invitational yesterday losing to GB buried alive in r1 (won g1 seeing only heirarch and dryad arbor, sided like he was bant, lost g2, mull to 4 and get lilliana'd g3). I beat UBw ANT Storm, RUG Countertop, and Merfolk. None of the matches felt particularly difficult. Moorland Haunt was insane vs countertop. Unfortunately, I went 1-3 in standard with the same GW wolfrun list that my friend used to crush the standard open, and didn't make day 2.
Fortunately, that meant more legacy for the legacy open on Sunday. I finished 6-3 losing to LED dredge, standstill Merfolk, and Cephalid Breakfast with grand abolisher. I beat Painter combo, Dredge, Zenith Bant, Charbelcher, and UR burn Twice.
My list was kind of last second and changed around a bunch over the last week. Any advice is appreciated, especially on the sideboard (which was good but thrown together and could be missing stuff).
2 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
4 force of will
3 daze
1 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
4 weathered wayfarer
4 mother of ruins
2 snapcaster mage
2 fathom seer
2 jotun grunt
2 serra avenger
2 geist of saint traft
1 vendillion clique
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Jitte
2 plains
1 island
1 karakas
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
2 windswept heath
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Wasteland
Sideboard
2 Burrenton Forge Tender
1 Spellskite (MVP!!)
1 Pithin Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Purify the Grave
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormods Crypt
3 Meddling Mage
1 Spell Pierce
2 Path to exile
1 Manriki Gusari
Sword of body and mind was really good vs the bant lists, which is why I picked it, but I'm open to swapping for Feast or famine. I went up to 3 stoneforge to support the Manriki but I'm also open to dropping stoneforge completely and just running 2 Jittes main. Serra Avenger was a last minute addition, I originally had Meddling Mages and Gitaxian Probes maindeck. The Avenger is worth it for her ability to race and wear a jitte. My Merfolk opponent that I lost to even attacked his Kira into her...flying? oh.
Geist of Saint Traft was a house all day racing the combo decks and being unbeatable for the burn and control decks.
Maindeck Moorland Haunt was also amazing single handedly beating RUG countertop in both games. It drew so many "wait, what does that do?" when I would search it up.
Spellskite as a 1 of was great and could easily be more. Combo with mother of ruins to just beat burn decks...Vialed it in twice vs the UR decks and it was amazing. Also ate a charbelcher activation to buy time for the win.
Path to exile seems counter to the wayfarer plan, but the decks you want it against are usually more immune to the wasteland plan (Merfolk) or fetch nonbasics first (zoo).
The revoker and needle seem random but were good as well. I brought it in to help shut down knight of the reliquary which is a problem creature, instead ended up naming pridemage every time so that I could equip beatdown. My friend walked up vs my bant matchup once and started laughing...I had two mother of runes, some random wayfarers sitting around, and a revoker naming pridemage, suited up with body and mind facing down my opponents Thrun goyf and other randoms dudes.
The three graveyard hate seemed ok but I might find room for another. Having the mix was great as my dredge opponents were bricking on cabal therapy repeatedly. I was fortunate to hit bridge with extraction. I hit the first dredger with purify once in the last round only to have the flashback force of willed...wtf. Never saw crypt, burrenton never was found.
My losses all felt easily winnable. I was very worried about the UW stoneforge deck, Jace and batterskull are tough for this deck to beat. A bunch of friends were playing it, one winning with it. My plan was to revoker/needle jace and try to manriki the batterskull. Meddling mage could also come in naming wrath or jace. From there we both have the similar spot removal except I have mother of ruins and maindeck geist of st traft.
Overall had a ton of fun playing the deck. I want to explore more the gitaxian probe snapcaster build over the fathom seers. It'll also probably let me cut a land. I could see going to 1 grunt as well.
My meta consistently has: Maverick, RUG, UWr Stoneblade, Storm, Reanimator, Merfolk, then some surprises. Maverick and UWr Stoneblade I don't think are very favorable for UW Tempo, random decks like Bant or Show and Tell that show up occasionally don't seem like great matches either.
I think you can shift the SB a couple cards to handle Reanimator w/o too much issue. Depending on what else you're expecting to face the deck can easily SB and access - Karakas, Tormod's Crypt or Phyrexian Metamorph.
Are you finding Jotun Grunt to be enough MB grave hate?
The problem with Reanimator is that large portions of the hate you board in may be ineffective completely - they'll just Show and Tell their fat beast, and that's it, unless you can still cast white spells or you boarded in Curfew. (Or you have lethal on board, or will win the race - but then what they'll do matters little anyway.)
I think two maindeck Jötun Grunt are perfectly OK. If you land them versus Threshold, Team America or Dredge, you're in a very solid position already, and only being a two-of makes sure they don't show up too often when you're facing something that either doesn't fill or doesn't care about its graveyard much.
@InfiniteJ: I don't know what to think about your list. Geist of Saint Traft sure seems appealing, but with critters like in your list you'll be ticking Vial up to 3, right? Also, geist seems to be really sub-par without Mother of Runes (that's the proper name of that card, btw - although I'm certain she's been the ruin of many players sitting at the opposite of the table :D) or equipment that boosts its P/T attached to it. I'm not convinced that it's better than Serra Avenger at all, even taking into account it pitched to Force of Will.
Another successful day full of UW Tempo at my favourite local cardshop: With a list that only saw sideboard changes (-2 Spell Pierce, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Engineered Explosives), I arrived too late for round one (having a day job and all that sure is hindering sometimes!), and went on to beat Ad Nauseam Tendrils (2-0), Mono-U Merfolk (2-0) and RB Confidant Burn (2-0).
The first games versus ANT were rather quick ones - game one, I applied pressure early with a Wayfarer (abused as a mere beatstick) and a Jotun Grunt (I landed him with three cards in the graveyard, but I figured if my opponent did want to have a leg up on me in this one, he'd be filling up his rather quickly - well, what can I say: the white giant went to the dome no less than three times :)), backed up by two Daze in my hand. I dazed one Ritual when he was first threatened to dip below ten life, and he did not pay for that by tapping his Volcanic Island (Swamp and Island in play on his side at that time, Island was used for Preordain the same turn). I followed with a Wayfarer'd Wasteland (responding to fecthing is so full of win) and a Meddling Mage the turn after, and had to decide what card to name. I was pondering Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal and the Rituals, and opted for Dark Ritual (also to prevent it from IGG-looping or somethin like that). Well, bad choice of course, as next turn he followed with land, two LEDs and an Ad Nauseam, though his remaining 6 life did not suffice to get anything going. Game two was a smiliar story, he kept a somewhat slow hand, and was beaten by Mother of Runes and some of her closest friends. I had a Vial at two and a Canonist in hand to beam down as soon as shit was going to get real on his last turn before I could lethally attack, but there was nothing coming that could have stolen my victory. SB: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Weathered Wayfarer, -1 Serra Avenger, -1 Fathom Seer, +3 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Null Rod
Second match: Merfolk. I initially had my opponent on UW Stoneforge, and his turn one Cursecather caught me off balance a little. Over the course of the game, I landed three Mother of Runes, two Serra Avenger and a morphed 2/2 critter we all know and love, and Meddling Mage on the penultimate turn of the game, naming Merrow Reejery he had shown me earlier off a Silvergill Adept. He had Cursecatcher, two Silvergill Adept, a Lord of Atlantis, Phantsmal Image (cloning Mother of Runes) and a Coralhelm Commander, as well as a Mutavault and a few Islands. Luckily, I found two Swords to Plowshares between all my other cards to deal with his Lords. In the end, he succumbed to my superior airborne firepower - peace only lasted until game two began, however. I distinctly remember forcing his turn one Vial there. The key play in this one was to bounce two Islands with Fathom Seer, and then dazing a Lord of Atlantis (bouncing my last Tundra/Island on the field) although he could perfectly well pay for it. He attacked right after pushing thru the Lord off of his Mutavault, and my two Serra Avenger were already waiting to chew away at his suddenly-not-so-unblockable little army. He condeded right after that little catastrophy. That's what you get for playing too fast, I guess.
Third match versus RB Burn, featuring Dark Confidant and Grim Lavamancer, amongst other Burn nasties. I literally forced through Mother of Runes on the play game one, landed Stoneforge Mystic going for Jitte turn three and a second one for Batterskull close to the end of the game, and started to turn the game around when I was at four life thanks to Umezawa's favourite piece of steel. Game two felt similar, although he seemed to have kept a suboptimal hand that only featured answers (to my precious artifacts) and little business that actually wins him the game by making me die. I attacked with a little horde of no less than three Wayfarers and an Avenger, with a Mother of Runes he could not answer on his first and second turns, and I even managed to push a Jitte-equip with attacking and damage-dealing action through all his artifact hate. The Jitte was dealt with the next turn with a replicated Shattering Spree (my singular Daze would have been in full effect on my turn before, so I guess he played it very tight not to try to prevent the little tool from amassing counters), but that mattered little in the end. I won at something like eith life. SB: -4 Force of Will, +2 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Chill, +1 Pithing Needle (Lavamancer is never to be underestimated)
Hi,
I've been playing UW Tempo for more then a year and made some changes along the way. Here my go at UW tempo:
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// Main deck
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Squadron Hawk
2 AEther Vial
2 Mana Leak
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
2 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard:
3 Wrath of God
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Karakas
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Bojuka Bog
==========================================
Biggest changes:
Squadron Hawk + Brainstorm (or Jace) + fetch = card advantage
Squadron Hawk + Joton Grunt = a lot of blockers
Designer notes
The original UW tempo was a very good deck. Sometimes I had some trouble removing non-creature permanents. 2x Vindicate takes care of that now. The deck could probably use another Aether Vial to make it more consistent, but I don't know what to drop yet.
Please let me know what you think of it.
So, you're splashing black for 2 Vindicates and a really small chance to hardcast Leyline of the Void, maybe 2 Oring instead can get the job done?
I honestly don't think a black splash is the way forward. Vindicate is a very good card, but it does not warrant the inclusion of as many as 20 lands, a higher average mana cost, and instabilization of the manabase - esp. when you only get it as a two-of. Black opens up interesting possibilities in the sideboard mostly (Perish, I'm looking at you), but I'm still not convinced that's worth it. I have a soft sport for Stillmoon Cavalier, but you can run him without having any black mana sources at all in UW anyway.
Squadron Hawk I like, but I don't think that UW Tempo is the right place for it. Playing it with less than 4 Stoneforge Mystic seems nonsentical, because the little bird is just pointless unless you do have equipment available. It's certainly weaker than Serra Avenger on average, because it depends on something else to be relevant - Avenger is pretty neat on her own as well. The argument you make about S. Hawks making Jotun Grunt better because they die so fast and fill your graveyard (I guess that's what you tried to say, right?) and will come back if you draw into a recycled one again is... let's say, dubious at best.
I don't know how Jace would do in UW Tempo, but my gut feeling tells me it isn't needed or even that good in here; I'd rather try Elspeth in his stead: You plan to win by using creatures, and Elspeth is a lot better than Jace at facilitating that. You already have quite a bit of card advantage and filtering with Fathom Seer, Brainstorm and Weathered Wayfarer (I do agree that more is certainly better, but I think turning an idly bystanding Wayfarer into a 4/4 cannonball each turn is better for _this_ deck than almost anything Jace could provide).
Mana Leak is an interesting card that I had much fun with back when it was first printed. It might warrant inclusion over Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm if you're in a meta that thrives on aggressive, permanent-heavy lists, I guess. On the other hand, having two mana open isn't that easy in this format, esp. in a deck that has good use for using its lands (Wayfarer and SFM activations, equipment costs, Wastelanding opponents into submission, et al.) otherwise.
Oh, and hi Philipp!
Thanks for the replies! I am sorry I couldn't reply any sooner, but your remarks have already been quite helpful!
After playtesting I totally agree with Philipp: splashing black is not helping at all. Colo's reply has also been very helpful. Thanks a lot for looking after my decklist. I have made several improvements, thanks to his comment, but I don't agree on everything.
I DO think the squadron hawks are improving the speed of the deck. Using them in combination with brainstorm can lead to some massive card advantage. The can carry equipment over emeny lines and they are great blockers too. Joton Grunt ensures they're coming back in the deck. Especially against Maverick this can be essential. Adding Eslpeth seems tempting. Yes she can definitely pump your guys, but she isn't the game winner that Jace can be. Besides the deck is little short on blue cards, which are needed for FOW. So I guess every extra blue card helps ;-)
Here is the update for the deck:
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
2 [M12] Plains (3)
2 [M12] Island (3)
4 [A] Tundra
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [DD2] Fathom Seer
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk
// Spells
3 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DDF] Swords to Plowshares
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [10E] Wrath of God
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
I've been testing against maverick and i am having difficulty with the match up. I was wondering is it because i don't have a good list for it or if it is a bad match up or if i need more time with the match up because i haven't played it much.
My List
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wasteland
4 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 AEther Vial
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Island
2 Plains
3 Serra Avenger
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
3 Fathom Seer
any help would be nice because i just started playing this deck
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