Man that's what I've been trying to say with that post above yours par. A lotta dudes I see on SCG with these top 8 position decks are running with these garbage fuckin lists that wouldn't make the finals in the tiny-ass once a week legacy events my LGS flips, man.
I tried netdecking ryan daly's(dredgekid, respect)list at the shop and I got tore down fast. Maybe it's just a failure on my part because I just don't get how to flex it. I'm not a fan at all of these lists that run tons of dread return targets main. Before the main event I was playing this friend who has an OK burn deck, like as far as burn can compete you know what I mean it's got a couple holes in it(refuses to run barbarian ring, doesnt wanna try out baubleburn/shrapnel blast at all that type of ish)but it's solid and daly's list was going like maybe 50/50 against that shit.
I mean come on man dredge does something totallly different than reanimator. If you wanna run reanimator do that herbert west elsewhere. Leave the fatty recursion to a deck that can bring it hard on turn 2. Realistically on game two you rely a lot more on dread returns because G1 you can just keep bringing ichorids back like he forgot his lip balms and he brings like what 1-2 tokens with him on average you can just grind people down with that. G1 even a GGT that's like 15/15 is just you winning with even less vaseline. I don't wanna scuff people playing these lists because results are results, right. And faithless looting in non LED lists..I don't think I'll even run one mainboard when it comes out february. Its a strong card par but does it even have a place in the sideboard for LEDless decks? Get at me on this.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
I don't think Ryan daly's list is bad at all. My list is very similar.
I would run underground river over sea because of merfolk. Also, people are apprehensive to wasteland the river.
I think darkblast is better than angel of despair.
Outside of those small changes it is a very solid list. This is the same guy who got second place at a different SCG right?
You see every one likes to say LEDless>LED dredge but when LED dredge does prove itself you guys are quick to dismiss it.
I believe LED dredge is better positioned in the current metagame. For starters it doesn't roll over to maverick. Secondly it is fast enough to handle the likes of reanimator and storm.
Also, I have never lost to burn or zoo with LED dredge. Never.
LED Dredge is awsome, and much funnier to play. It's nice to see your foe's face when you make 10 zombies in turn 1, lol. I'd love to gather my LEDs back and start brewing a list again (just recovered 2 of them).Originally Posted by joemauer
And since Storm Combo is now tier 1 again, people are not selling LEDs ):
But, I'll wait for Faithless Looting to be legal to test my LED list again. My LEDless is giving me plently rewards, with the Leyline of the Void sideboard.
This is what I'll test after february:
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tarnished Citadel
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Dread Return
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Flame-kin Zealot/Woodfall Primus
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
Any thoughts?
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Not running Sun Titan is a huge mistake imo!
To the above: its alot about metagaming.
I dont like Ryan's list very much and I did say that before, but people got to run what works best for them. There is a difference tho. Whily Ryan's top8 decklist was solid, there were just a few choices I didn't like(there we are again, metagaming), this top8 list is just so fucking bad it's not even funny anymore.
@Faithless Looting: Sideboard???? This is fucking Careful Study revamped! If I were to play LEDless then(which wont happen for the first few months) I would definately and gladly cut all my Breakthroughs for a card that good.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Without LED, Faithless Looting is significantly worse than Breakthrough and Careful Study. It's obviously also worse than Putrid Imp and Tireless Tribe. The only question is, "Is it better than Winds of Change?" I can't say yet.
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he scooped gerry into top 8 so thats why he has the second loss in legacy.
This isn't necessarily true, FL is better than BT as a discard outlet, and gives you more chance of opening a fast hand, even if not as fast as a hand with BT, still faster than a hand with BT that can't discard.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
I want to play LEDd redge but you know I'd also like to buy groceries this week hm decisions
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
You can eat your Magic cards if you have to, but you can't turn one kill an ANT deck with your groceries.
I think it is obvious what you should do here.
Solely eat ramen for one week -> LEDs. Seriously though, I highly recommend getting them, especially before the new set comes out since its market clearing price might jump yet again (not super likely, but definitely possible).
Also, I'm glad to see another Wu-Tang fan here on The Source. I often wear my old beat up Wu-Tang shirt to big tournaments for good luck, along with my Daunte Culpepper jersey.
Find enlightenment for just $29.99!
You guys are awesome.
@Anusien
I respectfully but heartfully disagree with the whole Statement. I do find Careful Study both better than Breakthrough and better than Permaoutlets. In LEDless , Lootings is not better than Study due to color but it is the next best thing imo.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Saying Putrid Imp is better than Faithless Looting is like comparing Apples and Oranges, and considering you don't even need to play Putrid Imp given the performance of Manaless Dredge and Phantasmagorian plus the addition of Lion's Eye Diamond and Breakthrough I'd say it's just a completely retarded statement. Putrid Imp is dated tech, people don't run Crypts like they used to.
That aside, how well are you guys supporting Faithless Looting and your SB cards with Cephalid Coliseum?
Guys, I`m still with doubts regarding to sideboard and Muligan ...
Lets say we are playing against Reanimator .... so u will SB 4x LotV and maybe a couple of CoV ...
And then .... if these cards don`t come in your openning hand??? Do u Mulligan till u find one?? It happend with me to not Mulligan (very good hand) and my oponend did Elesh Norn T2...
I think we should discuss a few strategies of SB and Mullingan against the top tier decks.
I really don't know how Loting will affect LEDless Dredge. This is clearly one of those things you'll just have to try and test as soon as the card comes out and see how well the deck runs with / without them. I don't think we can realistically claim that the one or the other thing is true here. This deck is very specific in its card choices and when we replace a card with a different one, it's possible that the deck will run less smoothly, even if that new card might look better on paper.
The card has a lot of potential, but so have all the other cards in the deck. The unchangeable core of the deck already has at least 44 cards (14 Land, 11 Dredgers, 4 CT, 3 Ichorid, 4 Narcs, 4 Bridge, 4 PImp), and I can only seem myself play Lootings over any of the remaining 16 obviously.
Personally, I think that Careful Study is better in LEDless and I'm pretty sure I will play 4 of those before even touching the first Lootings.
I also won't replace Breakthrough. If this deck somehow wants to claim it's explosiveness and have realistic means to beat dedicated Combo decks as well as decks that can drop something scary by turn 2-3 (say Ooze), BT is the one and only MVP. Now imagine we'd had Lootings since Odyssey and BT was just spoilered now. I'm pretty sure the whole community would cry for december bannings of Dredge's core cards even before that scary BT card would ever come out and ruin the format. That might be a bit exaggerated, but still. I see that we often don't need BT to win. But it's still the card the everyone has to fear and that just outright wins you the game when it resolves. A CC1 spell that does all that. And it can even be used as a discard outlet (something many people underestimate), especially game 1, where you don't have to prevent overextending your bin.
All in all, I can see myself play it over some Tribes and/or Firestorms whie testing. Maybe I'll also try to play it in addition to those while cutting something like the last DR and the 12 Dredger, but I'm not sure yet.
As of LED it's probably an auto-4-off. I'll have to see if that improvement makes me play LEDs over LEDless then (I don't think it will).
Sun Titan is definitely an option there. Still, everything you'll mostly bring back is CC or LED and in both cases Sphinx of Lost Truths would do the same for you. I mean the titan can attack and trigger again, but that is only a corner case. This is still not Vintage, though, where Titan is the very best creature you can ever DR dur to the insane synergies with Bloodghast and Bazaar.
oh no we're not in the DTB section anymore.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
Guys, what do you think about SB Leyline of Santicity against Tormod's Crypt ???
You would need 4, and with the presence of Surgical Extraction it just does not seem worth it IMO.
You know this is actually good, right?
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Dredge doesn't show in large numbers in tournaments because it's a deck that requires a lot of organization and thinking (the same goes for any Combo, in general). I mean, you have to organize your graveyard in a way you can see every revelant card, and know what to use each time. It kind of sucks that in the Eternal Formats, you can't change the order of your graveyard, because, otherwise, it'd be so simple: make an "useless" pile: Lands/Draw Spells and the "useful" pile: Creatures, Bridges and Cabal Therapies.You know this is actually good, right?
Anyway, why did I say that bunch of crap? Because to become a DTB, you need competitive records in the major tournaments, in which the number of players piloting the deck is relevant (and dredge is a small percentage of the field). But, a good pilot can always crush every DTB with ease, specially the blue controlish ones.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
OK so how exactly is everyone preparing for Surgical Extraction / Snapcaster Mage? That is really what this format consists of right now. Why is everyone playing a bunch of Nature's Claims? And why exactly is Unmask a bad SB card?
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