Congratulations! Great Report, too!Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Your use of Grappler is inspiring. Grappler seems like a very decent option because of his ability to disrupt your opponent while you attack, and attacking is what Goblins wants to do. Plus, with the density of lackey/instigator in your build running a 1drop that helps them get through seems like a brutal strategy. I like it. Good addition. Now you just need to find a way to up your Piledriver count. I'm imagining attacking with Grappler, piledriver, and an instigator would make for a fun combat phase.
G3 against maverick- Yep, you didn't give yourself much of a chance with that one. The Vial/colorless mana openers are only keepable if you have a good ramp of Goblins in hand (like a 1, 2, and 3 drop). I also don't think Bloodmoon was good enough to side in for this MU. Creature heavy decks really just need removal.
Once again, congratulations.
Nice ScatmanX! Goblin Grappler is indeed extremely interesting in combination with Warren Instigator. I'm glad cutting down on the Piledrivers worked out well for you!
How were the Tuktuk Scrappers for you? How do you feel on Lightning Bolt compared to Tarfire?
Team R&D
Played yesterday in small tournament (22ppl) and made top8 with this decklist:
4 wooded foothills
4 scalding tarn
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port
2 taiga
5 mountain
4 aether vial
4 goblin lackey
2 mogg fanatic
1 skirk prospector
4 mogg war marshall
3 goblin piledriver
1 stingscourger
4 goblin chieftain
4 gempalm incinerator
4 goblin matron
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 goblin warchief
4 goblin ringleader
1 siege-gang commander
sb:
2 tin street hooligan
2 pyrobloast
3 krosan grip
3 pyrokinesis
1 blood moon
4 leyline of the void
1. Zoo 2-0
2. Zoo 2-1
3. Bant 1-2
4. UWblade 2-0
5. draw
top8 zoo 0-2
ScatmanX somehow inspired me to build list with 4 chieftains, but i don't like instigators due to strictly red manabase. So i tried mwm which were awesome whole day (too bad i didn't draw even one in top8). I'm not sure about sharpshooter and lone warchief. Sided them out almost every game. Grappler is interesting, in some yesterday matches he could do better in spot of fanatic...
Sculler took my chieftain. He Vindicated my Mountain. forgot to say that. (he sould have gone for Vial imo...)
- I run Tuktuk because I don't want to run duals/fetchs in a world of Wastelands/Stifles, when I don't need to. An Tin Street gets hit by Spell Snare.
Thanks.
Yeah, but in a deck with 0 Warchiefs, that's irrelevant...
I do want to fit a 2nd Piledriver in. You're right there.
G3 against Mav I should have mulliganed, and lost there.
On Blood Moon against them: It is surprisingly good. Usually they run 2-3 Basic lands, and Moon is a complete blowout. Even if they have 2 basics out, they can only cast 1 colored spell per turn. That means that, if they want to play Stoneforge/MoM/Relicary, they can't bluff StP. It also stops Knight of the Relicary, and all other lands that are a pain, like Maze, Dryad, Mishra, Cradle, Sijiri Steppe...
That said, I'm testing a Needle and 2 Phyrexian Revokers now, that seems great. Vialing in Revoker against Mother of Runes must be also, because, once you reveal it, they can't respond to it. Also stops Relicary/equipaments/Noble, and anything you want.
Tuktuk were awesome. Even the 1 point of dmg was awesome and counted towards dealing 20.
Tarfire does everything Bolt does now. Most problematic creatures are X/1 or X/2 now. Against bigger ones you have other weapons.
The threat density is really important, and Tarfire revealed from Ringleader is awesome.
The only MU I miss Bolt is against Zoo, but Tarfire kills Lavamancers, and in conjuction with Relic of Progenitus, can kill lots of things.
If Survival was unbanned, and Vengevines saw play again, I'd go for Bolts.
Running Instigator does not mean you have to have an strictly red manabase, it means you should run something like 17 Red sources. But Warmarchalls are great too.
@Sharpshooter: You only played matches where he is just ok, that's why you sided him out so much. Warchief eneded up being cut to 0 in my list too, because he was surprisingly never needed.
Too bad you didn't beat Zoo. Your list seem awesome against that deck. You should roll him over.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
What about Ib halfheart? didn´t see a mention of him, and if you are going mono red and running chieftain, he can seriously increase your alpha striking capabilities. haven`t played with him in a while, but from what i can recall he was fun as hell and won me games that otherwise would have been sure loss
he is quite good against armageddon too
I could see Ib Halfheart work in combination with Chieftain. Though keep in mind that you can not attack with Chieftain if they have a blocker out otherwise they just block Chieftain, make you sac it and your tokens only crash in for 1 damage a piece.
A second point I would like to raise is that I have been experiencing a difficult matchup against Maverick. Especially Knight of the Reliquary has been giving me fits as it just grows so large. I figured Cursed Totem could be a nice answer to them as it worsens all of their creatures. Think about it: Knight of the Reliquary, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Scavenging Ooze, Stoneforge Mystic and Qasali Pridemage all have activated ability and are just bad vanilla creatures without them.
Team R&D
Of those creatures listed, only Stoneforge Mystic's ability is very relevant, and even if SFM's wings are clipped, she probably already has done too much damage. All the other abilities are slightly less relevant. Knight will grow big regardless of the ability, Noble Hierarch is a turn 0 or 1 drop, and dropping a Totem that early slows you down. Mother of Runes is an annoyance, but killable. Scavenging Ooze's and Qasali Pridemages' abilties don't really matter do they? The point of the matter is: Cursed Totem seems like a big Pithing Needle, but also at double its cost. Wouldn't Phyrexian Revoker be a better option? I know it's more easy to remove, but on the other hand, your Chieftain or other important Goblin gets to live or you can just turn it sideways and beat face. Perhaps hand him a Jitte, as I think Jitte + Revoker go well together. Boarding Jitte in against Maverick is pretty good, if you have your Revoker set to Pridemage. Plus Revoker gets to carry the Jitte, something Cursed Totem can't do.
But this is just theory coming back on your theory; I've used Revoker and Jitte to some extend and I like them - I'd like to see how Cursed Totem performs, although I cannot really imagine it to be the best choice. Stuff on a stick has always proven to have that extra bit of edge: Dark Condidant, Sower of Temptation, Qasali Pridemage. All creatures which have a more important ability besides being a creature. But the fact of the matter is that being a creature gives them an edge, even if that means being vulnerable to common removal.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
My usual approach to Knight is a timely Stingscourger, but Mother of Runes may ruin that plan. Running multiple Piledrivers, it is sometimes possible to just go around the Knight. Or stall until Seige-Gang can start launching goblins for the last bit of damage.
An out-there card I have been considering: Battle Squadron, now errata'd to be a goblin. Haven't had a chance to test this, Battle Squadron has been sulking in the sideboard. A flying Keldon Warlord disappoints when all the other goblins have been burnt or taken up farming.
"If magic is your crutch, cast it aside and learn to walk without it." —Teferi
- I'm testing Revoker, and it seems nice to deal with problematic Maverick cards.
- Instead of Jitte, Basilisk Collar could be nice. It makes every Sharpshooter a machine-gun, and every Fanatic a Plowshers. Have you tested it?
- Battle Squadron has appealed me me in the past, but imo there are more powerful cards if you want something with that effect, like Voracious Dragon and Predator Dragon.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Flash of Defiance is a good way to beat Maverick. Use it to make Lackey and/or Instigator connect and flash it back once you have enough critical mass to kill them.
hi everybody, this is my first message even though it s a while i m following this thread. I ve been playing mono red goblins for few months, yesterday i made top 8 (out of 31 I think) with the following list:
lands:
4 wasteland
4 rishadian port
15 mountains
core -26
flex:
1 tuktuk
1 Stingscourger
1 mogg fanatic
3 gempalm
3 tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis
sideboard:
4 leyline of the void
4 red elemental blast
4 pyrostatic pillar
3 chalice of the void
1 st game was against an unknown deck, he was a noob that had lands used in standard "enter the battlefied tapped unless...."
won 2-0
2 nd game was against B/W/G. This game was fun, I had a lot of mana denial that made me win game 1 and 2. Game one I keep a hand that is: 3 waste 1 port 2 mountain 1 lackey. I start with mountain lackey go. He looks at me saying: I did not expect this. He plays a fetch and passes. I top deck a tarfire and play the port. I hit with lackey and don t put anything into play, he looks at me. He fatches for a non basic and puts another non basic into play. He plays dark confidant. End of turn I tarfire the confidant. I top deck my fourth wasteland. From here on I play wastelands and keep going of mana denial untill he is completely mana screwed. I win slowly with 1, 2 or 3 damages each turn. Game 2 I dont sideboard anything and ended up very similar, I played a vial and mana denial. He gives up when I kill his dark confidant and he is mana screwed.
won 2-0
3rd game. he played some kind of affinity. I lost game one and 3 and won game 2. The games that I lost I had quite good draws always starting with either vial or lackey but he was just faster than me. I was fast in putting down piledrivers but he had Etched champion which goes completely nuts against goblins: attacking with piledriver is useless and I couldn t remove them. He got a couple of them in both game 1 and 3 and I simply scooped. In game 2 I won thanks to Pyrokinesis which removed one menmite and 3 signal pest, taking away everything he had in play. In these games I sidboarded in a single chalice of the void and 3 red elemental blasts taking out fanatic, Stingscourger and 2 tarfire.
lost 1-2
4th game. he played again some kind of strange tempered steel deck. I didn t see much, I won 2-0
5th game. He played merfolk. First round he manages to put down a lot of creatures fast and then he plays kira. I cannot do anything, I try to attack but he blocks with small creatures and he wins with flying. Side in: 4 red elemental blast, side out: 3 tarfire and 1 mogg fanatic. Game 2: this game is epic, he is very fast in getting me to 1 life. I top deck pyrokinesis which removes 3 of his guys, I waste the mutavault, get 2 piledriver into play and win from there. Game 3 he gets a vial but has few creatures to put into play that eventually get killed or blasted. In this game tapping his mutavault with my port made the difference so I could hit with piledriver.
won 2-1
6th game he played esper blade. game one I played mountain lackey go. He didn t have an answer. Lackey connects to a SGC. I win from there. I side in 4 red elemental blast and out 1 fanatic 1 pyrokinesis and 2 tarfires. he plays a land and passes, i play a vial and pass. he plays stoneforge into a batterskull. I manage to play 2 piledrivers and a warchief quite fast but both piledrivers get removed and he starts hitting with the batterskull. He is dominating, I am at 13-14 life and he has something like 25 life when I have a matron and a gempalm in hand and 2 goblins on the board. He has a stoneforge and a batterskull down and 3 open mana. he passes and at the end of turn I vial a matron that finds me a tuktuk. My turn I gempalm his stoneforge, I activate the vial and in response he returns the batterskull to his hand. He doesn t get enough mana to play batterskull and anyway I would have a tuktuk with the vial at 4. I win from there.
won 2-0
Some considerations:
- dont dilute the deck! - I was very lucky not to meet any combo decks. I devoted my sideboard 100% against combo because I know that I dont stand a chance against them (or very little). I wanted to side in at least 10 cards against them to have a chance in game 2. Nevertheless I didn t meet any!!!! Therefore, I sideboarded very little against the other MU in the tournament simply because I didn t have much to choose from. Well, it is very interesting that it worked out very well and I won every single game 2. In previous tournaments I used to sideboard a lot but now I think that it is a mistake. Goblins are a tribal deck that needs to be tight and fast. We shouldn t dilute it too much! As it is designed in game one, the deck is potentially able to beat any kind of aggro or tempo decks (apart from zoo probably). we are fast and have a great mid-late game already, therefore, against any non combo decks I wouldn t side more than few cards: they will get much more defensive and slow in game 2, we should become even faster! I missed one maybe 2 tuktuk in sideboard but else I wouldn t have wished for anything else in my sideboard. Having non-goblins in the deck weakens the deck in too many ways in my opinion.
- pyrokinesis. I hate to read my decklist and find those two non goblins in main deck. I hate them but they are way too amazing to do without. In a mono red build they are auto include in my opinion. They simply win games against maverik, bant, affinity and merfolks. Oh! do you play turn one green sun zenith into driad arbor and turn two knight of the reliquary? then I will pyrokinesis both of them... actually now my lackey can even connect! Turn one green sun zenith into driad arbor, turn 2 noble hierarch and mother of runes? Away all of them!! do you have a spell snare in your hand? doesn t do much, do you have a daze? on turn 2 I have 2 mana and pyrokinesis costs 0... It s simply amazing: it kills their mana acceleration and opens the way to lackey. It is one of those cards that is amazing both in turn 1 and turn 7. Also because with the alternative costs we can loose a lackey on turn 7 or a tuktuk or SGC on turn one that there was no way to play in this game.
-lackey friendly cards. Lackey opens the way to the victory very often if it connects. So I tested a lot how many lackey friendly cards to have in the deck to allow him to hit. I got to the conclusion that 10 is the right number: you are certain to get one of them in opening hand that removes an opponent creature on turn 2. And even if you don t have a lackey they are enough (but not too many) to deal with the non-combo deck. Also, I think it is optimal to run many removal to open the way to piledrivers so to deal lots of damage. Currently I m running: 1 stingscourger, 1 fanatic, 3 gempalm, 3 tarfire, 2 Pyrokinesis. I already written about pyrokinesis. Tarfires are simply great: they kill nearly all the problematic creatures out there, we can get them with matron and ringleaders and pyrokinesis burns what is too big for them. I like that they keep the deck so tight. Gempalms are extraordinary in most of the cases and they completely suck few times. However, they potentially kill big creatures, they draw one card and most of all are (almost) incounterable!!! It helped in so many games the fact that they couldn t counter it now that there is so much blue in the meta. Stifle is not so common so the ability resolves 95% of the times. It helpes getting rid of a stonforge after they searched for a battleskull that they have no way to hardcast. I wouldn t play less than 3. I think that in the mono red build Gempalms, tarfire and pyrokinesis are the removal to take into consideration. I personally find lightning bolt awful in a goblin deck except if zoo decks are popular in the metagame. I think that those three removal complement themselves very well in almost any case and lightning bolt wouldn t help in most of the situations. On the other hand I could see that warren weirding could fit very well in the deck to do that extra bit that is needed. In fact, I am thinking to splash black to add 2 warren weirding and remove 1 fanatic and 1 Stingscourger. I don t like fanatic, I am ok happy to see it but in 99% of the cases I would prefer any other removal. Stingscourger is good as a 1-of in a mono red build but I feel that it is almost always worse than warren weirding.
- mana denial. I won so many games thanks to wastelands and ports. They are simply amazing, don t cut on them! goblins is probably the deck that uses aether vial best, and wastelands and ports are there to make aether vial even better! I think that people tend to underestimate mana denial and prefer to play one extra goblin rather than using the mana to tap one land or waste a non basic. However, it seems to me that it is almost always better viceversa. I would not play less than the full playset of both of them, they win games as much as piledrivers and ringleaders do. Also, what about if I tap/waste that mutavault/driad/factory that prevents lackey/piledriver to hit?
Not being attached to a creature is both an advantage and a disadvantage for Cursed Totem. The issue I have with Revoker is that they can just GZS Qasali and kill it or STP your Revoker. They obviously just let it live when it's not much of a hindrance to them, but they have plenty of tools to kill it when it is preventing that Jitte of killing you. But the 2/1 body can win you games just as well. The reason I like Cursed Totem so much is that I in fact do believe that Maverick is just a poor pile when you disable the creatures.
Imagine being on the play and on their turn they lay Noble Hierarch or GZS for Dryad Arbor and you play Cursed Totem on your turn. Then on their third turn they finally manage to lay that Knight of the Reliquary and it's just 3/3 or maybe 4/4 not able to grow any larger.
Team R&D
Unless they use fetchland or you decide to use Wasteland. But I agree, Cursed Totem could be fun; however I've had some bad experience playing sideboard cards that don't keep the pressure on. Any test results yet?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
I have playtested a lot against maverik and in my opinion the best answer (mono red build) is a pyrokinesis at the end of their turn 2. They are simply scooped. they have a lot of super tiny creatures that enter the battlefield the first 2 turns (noble, mom, birds, driad, stoneforge) and pyrokinesis can get rid of them. Whithout their mana acceleration they are in such disadvantage. Also, they usually look for batterskull when they play stonforge and if you pyrokinesis their mana acceleration and the stonforge it is gonna look very good for us.
The other reason why pyrokinesis wins this MU is that they ALWAYS keep a hand without lackey removal if they start on play and they can put down a couple of creatures on turn 2 when our lackey should attack. For example, if they have a hand with GSZ and hierarch they fetch for driad arbor on turn 1 and play hierarch and maybe something else on turn 2. In this way they are sure that at our turn 2 we cannot connect with lackey even if we have a removal. In these cases pyrokinesis wins the game.
I personally think that the most problematic card in that MU is mom. Knight of the reliquary is not such a big problem it hasn t protection from red... It is always possible to play around it since we have many goblins to block with. Also, by running pyrokines is almost certain that we can shot it if they don t have a mom. I find it very difficult to win against a maverik that has a mom in play that nullifies our spot removal and blocks piledrivers. I always try to keep a shot in hand for when she comes in play.
In my tests (mono red build with 10 removals + tuktuk main deck) running multiple pyrokinesis makes maverik a favorable MU. It becomes very hard only if they have a mom not in sickness or duelling grounds on the battlefield. Stoneforge is not a big issue if you have many removal and at least one artifact removal main deck.
In general, i think that is very important to run many removals main deck, they are always usefull: thay help our creature to hit (lackey, piledrivers) and destroy their game plan. Moreover, if the matagame is rich in maverik and bant pyrokinesis is a must in my opinion.
I really think Tarfire is a must right now. We just don't have enough ways to stop turn 3 Batterskull without it, and as has been said, there's really not much that it doesn't hit that Bolt does. Plus, Tarmo is at an all-time low right now, which is the best reason not to run a tribal bolt for 2.
Scatman -- grats on your tournament! How did running with zero Warchiefs fare for you? It's one of those sacrilegious core cuts that I've seen a few times over the years, which always makes me wonder how "core" he really is.
Thanks.
It was tuff cutting Warchief, but after extensive playtesting, and this tournament now, we can see he is really not needed. And I was reminded of how good Chieftain really is. Laying multiples down is just insane.
Don't be affraid of messing up the "core". It's there just for reference.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
do you guys board in graveyard hate when the opponent plays tarmogoyf, knight of the reliquary, snapcaster mage or punishing fire?
I tried multiples times to board in a couple of relic of progenitus from the sideboard against those decks. But I never figured out whether I actually liked it enough... sometomes they are great and other times are horrible when they are revealled by a ringleader...
any feelings about that?
I like the combination Pyrokinesis & Relic. Relic replaces itself allowing to 2 for 3 them (2 Goyf + 1 Knight for example). Just make certain that you pop the relic after you've dealt the damage.
..And that your opponent is tapped out, having Knight with summoning sickness ;)
I also think that the best way to beat Maverick is by trying to screw it (G1). G2 it's all about Perish him at the right time, without let it gaining life from it's equipments. (Skirk prospector or any artifact destroyer being the best solution)
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
