@P.S. if you want to win, stay on this thread, and stop playing Pox.
17 Swamp
4 Bump In The Night
2 Reanimate
2 Small Pox
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Zombie Infestation
3 Underworld Dreams
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
3 Pox
3 Innocent Blood
SB 1 Triskelion
SB 1 Phyrexian Devourer
SB 3 Necrotic Ooze
SB 4 Buried Alive
SB 2 Exhume
SB 4 Beseech the Queen
I played this in a tourney on Wednesday 20 people. I played a similar list last week, I replaced Geth's Verdict for Innocent Blood. I also Took out 1 Small Pox, and 1 Raven's Crime for two Zombie Infestation.
I generally liked the replacements I made. They all worked well. as well as they could I went 1-3, the one match I won was a Bye. The games I won, which were 2 of them, in the three losses, I won soley because of Bump in the Night, and Underworld Dreams. which included a nasty Aggro Loam deck, that kept gaining life, which is a bastard to deal with for Pox.
I wanted to run both Nether Spirit and Lili but could not get a hold of them before hand.
I would have taken out the Bump's for 2 Spirit, and 2 Lili, and then taken out Small Pox for the other 2 Lili.
Match one V. Affinity (My deck) -my best friend wants to start running it, so I let him use my deck. I almost got the game in both losses. First turn ensnaring Bridge in both games, but in both games he got under the bridge with an Ornathoptor and fast equip Plating.
The deck is difficult, there are two many creatures, two many things to deal with.
There really is not anything to report on, it was about 20 turns each game of me dealing minimal damage with Pox, Innocent Blood, and Cursed Scroll, until he was able to cheat the Bridge.
I did sideboard my Necrotic Ooze but could not find the combo, sat with a bridge and he again cheated it.
Match two V. Stoneforge
I cannot beat this stupid deck. I had the upper hand, but slipped up. I had a scroll in play and a good lock on things with a Bridge. He played a Bitterblossom, and eventually won. I had four lands in play, gambled and played a Pox to knock a bigger amount of life down,to scroll him easier. It took me 3-4 turns to get another land to scroll with, and he was able to start attacking because I could not drop an Underworld Dreams out of my hand.
in the second game, a turn two drop of Bitterbossom won him the game. I didn't find a Bridge, and eventually could not stop the 8 1/1 flyers that he had out.
Match 4 V. Aggro Loam
I actually should have taken the match. I rolled him game one. Bridge out on turn two, and all of his creatures got huge. he did not do anything all match except gain life. I eventually had two Underworld Dreams, Cursed Scroll, and Bridge out. I drew two Bump's which without them, I would have had to wait an additional 2-6 turns (depending) to beat him, not to say he would not have been also able to gain more life. He had one out in his deck, that he could have used on his turn to kill my Bridge and win the game. He never found it, and I won it easily.
I got cocky.
I sided in my Ooze Combo. He took game two. He destroyed my early Bridge, and kept making me discard my combo pieces. I got another Bridge in play which was good until I drew a Triskelion. he was able to attack with small creatures. I eventually dropped a Scroll and took away his small time attackers. I beseeched for a Zombie Infestation, (which I could not play that turn, it was dangerous, but I had to do it.) he top decked a Duress and took it from me. He was unable to attack for many turns, I was eating him away with my Scroll, until he top decked a Qasali put the Bridge into the graveyard tapped his fat guys and won.
I was unable to find an Extirpate at this point, so I was unable to see his sideboarded cards.
Third game, I had the combo on the second turn. I Buried Alive turn one, pass turn. His first turn I found his sideboard card, Bojuka Bog, game. Had I sideboarded Pox back into the game, I should have been able to win, I did not, so I did not.
I am getting pressure from all of my friends to set Pox down for a while and run Affinity (which should have won the tourney, my friend made a bunch of beginner Affinity mistakes and lost two matches because of it.)
i.e
Stoneforge on table with Batterskull. my friend had no less than 7 more creatures than his opponent. Batterskull attacks. My friend blocks with a small creature. this was okay, until I surveyed the playing field an saw a Ravager on the table. He didnt block, and sac the creature to Ravager. which does three things. 1: no damage taken from Batterskull. 2: no life gain from Batterskull because it pulls the creature from the combat phase. 3: makes Ravager bigger, in 3 turns the Ravager would have been bigger than the one Batterskull. another turn the Ravager could have killed the Batterskull.
I was talking it over with my friends opponent, and talking over the mistake. He said he was counting on that because he had a Path to Exile in his hand. But, he missed the second Ravager on the board, which would have given my friend three two creatures to be Exiled, as the Ravagers would have passed everything to one another.
that is a game win, my friend should have had.
I tell you this because of this.
Pox doesn't have these moments.In the last year, I have lost maybe ten games because of a player mistake. Most recently Reanimating an opponents Tarmagoyf, while he had Jace on the board........
I lose because Pox just doesnt have all the answers.
I am going to partake in this forum because I believe in Pox, always have always will. but I am going to stop missing opportunities to get player points until I can get a hold of Liliana, and Mox Diamond. Which I think is imperative to Pox, I would also almost run Chrome Mox too.
the two Mox cards do a few things.
1: I can take out 5-6 Swamp in the deck. maybe only 4. but I would try 6 first.
2: I can take out Dark Ritual. which would allow me to run another utility card, and I would also run Small Pox because the sacrafcing my land would be worth their land.
(which is my honest biggest problem with Small Pox.)
I am looking forward to opinions but I am not really interested in arguing over this deck. I am confidant I have played this deck just as much as the players who have always played it, and I am confident I have played it an inconceivable number more than people who just started within the last few months/years.
The best bang since the big one!
My Tournament isn't going to be till Tuesday, but I did manage to play a couple games against a friends Land deck.
He's very skilled, he runs a very control build; essentially he wins with Creeping Tar.
My deck is this, I was gonna wait but fuckit I'll just show it now:
Lands (29)
5 Fetchland
4 Scrubland
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
5 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Mox Diamond
Spells (31)
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Small Pox
2 Vindicate
2 Cataclysm
1 Bitterblossom
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Tombstalker
The first game took forever. I did my best to disrupt him with Hymns and Inquisition right off the bat, but he got Loam out right away so I decided to save up my Sinkholes for when necessary. Basically, this was a hurry up and wait game, he continued to Tolaria west, Loam, and tutor till he had all 4 Moxes in play and a significant amount of lands and 2x Loam in the yard. I decided it was time to drop Cataclysm, since he hadn't dropped a single Exploration yet. Unlucky for me, he tops in response and draws, keeps all but his Mox and a land, then proceeds to pull some double exploration shennanigans the next turn lol, so it didn't stunt him as much as I planned. This then took him down to very few cards, since he continued to attack with his Creeping Tarpit and I continued to swords it, so he was forced to waste it 3 times in a row. I eventually had to drop my last Cataclysm prematurely, since I was about to run outta lands since he started double Ghost Quarter'ing me. He was able to bounce right back so I scooped.
We played another game, no SB, and I had a descent start. I was able to E. Tutor for Bitterblossom turn2 and wasteland his Port, but what does he drop from his hand on his turn..Tabernacle lol. So basically this game takes forever, I tutor for Crucible & play Phyrexian Unlife so I can sleep on blossom. The store closes, nobody wins that game /the end. I didn't get to test post SB, I wanted to bring in the Leylines & Extirpates for giggles.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
@Mystical, I hope Phyrexian Unlife works. I have always wanted to try PUnlife in Pox.
I like the list. I like Vindicate and Cataclysm at two each.
I might try it, one less Sink Hole one less Small Pox for one each on Cataclysm and Vindicate. I think Cataclysm is going to be awesome in Legacy, and when I play with Pox, (knowing we plat very different decks) I always find I want direct removal.
If I had direct removal in my tourney, I think I would have been able to win at least another match.
cant wait for your report from Tuesday.
The best bang since the big one!
Has anyone tried E-tutor in a Bitterblossom/Contamination/Nether Spirit focused build?
I tried out this build in a local tourney, earlier this evening. I never got to playtest the deck since i put it together minutes before kick off. But i have played junk,rock, eva green, and monoblack before, so i did'nt feel out of my territory.
It went wrong, and i lost 0-3.
I lost to maverick, re-animator (both who got to the final) and eva green with dark depths. Against re-animator my SB failed me. I boarded i a lot, but never found any of it despite mulling twice. The discard served me well, but Iona, on black crushed me.
Both maverick and eva green i should have won, but they both raced me when we went into topdeck mode (wich happened pretty much every game) maverick found Jitte for a small dude, and i never found my sideboard answers. (2 damnation, 1 Surgical, 1 dystopia, and 1 perish) I got maverick down to 3 lives, no cards in hand, and no permanents before i went out of gas, and into a horrible topdeck mode.
Eva green top decked a Dark confidant, while i only drew lands, dark ritual, and discard.
Despite loosing, i knew i was very close to victory every time. And i playtested a lot after, and crushed both aggro and control. So i am actually convinced this deck can go all the way against any match-up.
I learned: That Liliana is GREAT in this deck, and so is Cursed scroll. If you have a Liliana while both in topdeck mode, you will most likely win. The scroll was also a huge comfort in blowing up delvers and other small dudes, and nagging at opponents life. Bloodghast was alright, but i wanted to be able to block against goyf. Confidant was great at times, but risky with low lifepoints. Sinkholes was great, and fit very well in pox. I might try SDT, Bitterblossom and Meekstone. And cut a Nether spirit, and a Pox. Pox can be great, but it can hurt you as much as them. And we can't always afford the luxury to wait for the perfect moment.
I have always liked black control decks, and Pox is a very good one.
19 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Cursed Scroll
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
4 Dark Rital
2 Innocent Blood
3 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tuorach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nether Void
4 Bloodghast
2 Dark Confidant
1 Nether Spirit
2 Liliana of the Veil
SB:
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of the void
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
1 Dystopia
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Perish
If you are having problems with topdeckmode i sugest you try sensei's divining top.
If you do, add some fetch lands as well to shuffle bad cards away.
Lands/loam decks are hard to beat pre board, but extirpate/surgical on their loams is the gamebreaker. It's probably smart to side in leylines too, as they might play chalice for 1.Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass
How do you like splashing white? is your manabase stable?
I go monoblack so their wastelands and stifles are useless, but then again, i did miss playing sword to plowshares when my opponent re-animates Iona on black.
Amen. I'm more afraid of Ghost Quarter in the late game, basically there's a timing window where he'll still be accel'ing, that I have to hit Cataclysm before he starts Ghost Quartering 3-5 times a turn with Crucible and Porting down 2-4 lands. If you hold off even a turn too late, which I found out the hard way, its too late. Without hitting the "reset" button you're mana base will be smashed in a couple turns and all your permanents with Explosives.
I played a couple games yesterday against his deck again. Ironically, I was the one "mana screwing" him one game. He opened with Mox, Exploration, Maze. I had then Sinkholed his green source the following turn, then Vindicated his Mox and then decided to tutor for Crucible (which was a flop, he pithing needle on Waste and if I simply went for blossom in hindsite I woulda won).
My mana base is stable, I don't mind Wasteland since I can sit happy on mox and 1-2 basics or a Flagstone no problem earlier game, and he generally won't "waste" his time on those, till... like I said, he decides to bring the pain.
On another note, I played a couple games (BW vs BW RARR!) against a Deadguy Ale deck, running SFM/Batterskull, Bob, mom, etc.
This was a harsh realization, because I'd seem to get the early edge... StP his mom, get these sick double Hymn plays, smallpox, etc. As soon as he was able to stick a Bob and I didn't have an answer, between that and Mystic he was able to just own me with card advantage. Porphyry Nodes won't cut it against this type of deck, I mean, he'd still net out 3+ cards by the time he'd have to sac his Bob most likely.
So this is where I'm at right now. Cataclysm is working just fine for what it does, but I'm not capitalizing off my window of opportunity cause I don't have enough aggro. Also, Mox Diamond (surprise) is a weak point. It's accelleration and mana fixing/mana options do not outweigh the fact that it clogs your deck with lands, what I really need are more "options" in my opening hand and less lands to pitch, if that makes sense. I realized, the deck functions just fine at ~2 lands, and oftentimes I'd be sitting at 4 lands and just didn't know what to do with it. Mox Diamond really needs Loam, I believe, because otherwise you're just not getting a tradeoff for the lands and fetchlands you pitch, so maybe in a BG variant but I'm not gonna need it for here I realize, since I get enough mana lead with Sinkhole.
This is what I cut atm, and so far it seems to be much better:
-2 Factory
-2 Swamp
-4 Mox Diamond
-1 Phyrexian Unlife
+4 Chrome Mox
+4 Bloodghast
+1 Jitte
Chrome Mox is less consistent but allows me to run less land and more options in my hand at least, worst case scenario just pitch it. After testing Bloodghast now, I'm feeling dumb for not considering him before, he works great under Cataclysm. And since I'ma run ghasts and bitterblossom now, Jitte's kind of a no brainer I can tutor for it and make creatures like Bob and Mystic drop dead.
This is probably the way I'm going to go for Tuesday, unless I have any drastic news but I'm glad I got to get some testing in beforehand to cut out the stuff that I know now wouldn't have held its weight. pce
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
thoughts on Defense Grid?
SB/MD
I used it when it came out a lot. It worked well ten years ago, but I let it go for obvious better cards. I did the same thing for Cursed Scroll and even Duress too though.
there is so much counter magic in Legacy now, especially with the two best decks in the format Delver and Stoneforge both cramming 8-12 counters in each build.
we hardly ever cast cards on out opponents turns, if ever. Defense Grid would only hurt the other player. Daze would cost 3, plus a land, or 5 to cast, Spellsnares cost 4 then, and it might even force players to cast Brainstorm on their turn, and wast mana doing it.
It is obviously not a game winner, but it is something to think about.
It would slow down SNapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and would even stop Zoo from finishing us off late game whilst holding burn spells.
The best bang since the big one!
Defense Grid I'd probably only run as a SB in a deck running Sol Lands and Chalice/Sphere's.
Honestly, I'm more apt to just drop mox's for more Duress if I have to fight a lot of countermagic. I'm already a little iffy about running them in the first place now. Defense Grid isn't necessarily an answer, because it itself can be countered and probably will be against those decks, so tutoring for one and trying to drop it isn't really ideal.
Only thing I'm considering now is +1 Tidehollow Sculler to tutor for.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
I love sculler for a few reasons.
It flys, so it's almost always going to get through for ping damage.
Death touch makes it another direct creature killer.
It's awesome with a jitte, which Im Not sure mystical but I think you were thinking of running anyway.
I would try it.
Actually I would try anything. I don't know about all of you but I have at least 7 Legacy tournaments a week within my immediate area. With the new Planewalker points, we no longer get Penalized for losing. If you have an idea just try it.
It works for me because I don't have to wait very long in between playing time. If you do, maybe I would be less cavalier about running experiments. But if you can play at least once a week, try different things.
The best bang since the big one!
Oh, you're thinking of Nighthawk, which I also like running in Deadguy Ale. Sculler's theMesmeric Fiend, but it's an artifact creature so I figured it gives me the option of Tutoring for a Distress on a stick.
I'm honestly thinking of just scrapping Mox's all together, just rely more on top, Crucible, or Jitte as my artifacts what you think about that? The BIGGEST reason is they're absolute horrid topdecks, just awful, the more and more I'm testing. 33% of time I'll get a descent start that makes me nod, but other 66% I keep beating myself in head and wish they were literally anything but that, an extra innocent blood, duress, etc. because in attrition wars they just become your worst enemy.
Oh yeah, if I do scrap mox all together I might try 3sphere. It actually might be pretty clutch alone with the Sinkholes, Smallpox, Wastes. Imagine dropping trinisphere mid-late game, then following it up with a Cataclysm too. That could lock them out of the game, the idea is that it would make topdecking Sinkholes and Vindicates that much more brutal, and as long as I could hold against one creature I'd win.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
Got a quick tournament report for you guys & gals! ^_^
I played Pox for the first time at my LGS last thursday in a 32 person tournament, and I'm pleased to say that it went quite well. Before I get started, here's my list...
===
Pox
===
[3 Planeswalkers]
3 Liliana of the Veil
[7 Creatures]
4 Bloodghast
2 Tombstalker
1 Nether Spirit
[24 Spells]
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
[4 Artifacts]
4 The Rack
[22 Lands]
4 Mishra’s Factory
18 Swamp
~~~~~~~
Sideboard
~~~~~~~
3 Null Rod
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Syphon Life
3 Infest
4 Leyline of the Void
Round 1 : Zoo
Game 1 : Won the dice roll and kept a good opening 7 with a few swamps, a Mishra's Factory, Inquisition, Smallpox, Hymn, and Innocent Blood. Inquisitioned my opponent turn 1 and took a Goblin Guide, leaving him with a few lands, 2 Bolts, and 2 Goyfs. He plays a land and bolts me then I Hymn him nabbing a Goyf and a Bolt. He drops a Goyf, I Smallpox. I then draw into The Rack and a Bloodghast and proceed to beat him down with the Ghast and Mishra's Factory while The Rack does it's job.
Game 2 : I board out 4x Pox and board in 3x Ratchet Bomb and 1x Syphon Life. I kill his early creatures with Innocent Blood and Smallpox, have a Nether Spirit on the field, and drop a Ratchet Bomb and leave it at 2 to handle the Goyf that shows up half a dozen or so turns later. Eventually I win with Nether Spirit and Liliana of the Veil + The Rack locking him out of the game.
Result : Win, 2-0
Current Record : 1-0
Round 2 : TES
Game 1 : I know what my opponent is playing beforehand since he's a friend of mine so I try to mull to a good hand of discard. Alas, I'm forced to go down to 5 keeping a hand with 3 land, Inquisition, and Hymn. I Inquisition him turn 1, he casts Ad Nauseam turn 2.
Game 2 : I board out 4 Innocent Blood, 1 Pox, and 1 Tombstalker and bring in 3x Null Rod and 3x Ratchet Bomb. I mull to 6 and keep an opening hand with Ratchet Bomb, a few lands, Inquisition, and Liliana of the Veil. I Inquisition him, take a Ponder (leaving him a few lands, Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Chrome Mox, and Rite of Flame). On his turn he Duresses me and swipes my Ratchet Bomb. Rats! I do nothing the next turn so he goes off, Wishes for Empty the Warrens, and dumps 10 goblins on the board. I topdeck Mishra's Factory, he swings for 10 and I block 1 with my Factory. Next turn I mise a Ratchet Bomb off the top of my deck, play it, and crack it at zero to take out his goblin horde and Chrome Mox. After that I drop Liliana, use her to keep his hand empty for the rest of the game, and beat him down with Mishra's Factory for 10 turns.
Game 3 : My opponent mulls to 4, I play Null Rod turn 2, Liliana turn 3, Pox turn 4, and eventually beat him down with a Bloodghast and Tombstalker. I feel extremely lucky.
Result : Win, 2-1
Current Record : 2-0
Round 3 : Naya Natural Order
Game 1 : This game took a very long time, but the long and the short of it is that every time he got a creature on the board I made him sacrifice it, but he did have the Punishing Fire / Grove of the Burnwillows combo which annoyed the hell out of my Bloodghasts and caused a few problems for The Rack as well. I got there eventually with a Tombstalker though.
Game 2 : I wished I had a couple Extirpate in the board, but alas I did not so there was no boarding for me. I honestly don't remember this one too well, but I do remember drawing a few too many lands and not enough creature kill and losing to a single enormous Knight of the Reliquary.
Game 3 : I managed to Dark Ritual into 2x Hymn to Tourach on turn 2 and then mana screw my opponent with Pox effects for most of the game, leaving him stuck with Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy as his only lands for the majority of this one. It was a long drawn out game due to his Punishing Fire keeping my creatures pretty pinned down in spite of him being short on mana, but eventually I got there with Liliana and 2 copies of The Rack. I continued to wish I had Extirpate.
Result : Win, 2-1
Current Record : 3-0
Round 4 : RUG
Game 1 : Turn 1 I inquisition him and take one of his two Brainstorms, leaving him with a Brainstorm, 2x Tarmogoyf, 1 land, and Force of Will. Turn 2 I cast Dark Ritual into Liliana of the Veil, he decides not to Force of Will her. Bad call on his part, he can't stop her and I eventually win with the Liliana + The Rack lock.
Game 2 : No sideboarding here, I felt confident that I had all the right tools for the job in the main deck. There were a lot of back and forth plays in this game and it dragged on for quite a while. After the events of the last game he did Force my turn 1 Dark Ritual into Liliana but I got another out on turn 3. I Pox a few times, he Bolts Liliana at some point, he draws and plays all 4 of his Goyfs, I can only kill 3 of them. I die to a 5/6 vanilla creature.
Game 3 : I keep an opener with 3 swamps, 2 Smallpox, and 2 Hymn. He mulls to 6 and I to Dark Ritual into Hymn on turn 2 (I would have cast both Hymns then but he Dazed the first one and I decided to pay for it, effectively nabbing 3 cards out of his hand) and Hymned him again the following turn. He seems a little short on land so I double Smallpox him down to 0 land and that's pretty much where he stays for the rest of the game. I am pleased and win with Tombstalker.
Result : Win, 2-1
Current Record : 4-0
Round 5 : Merfolk
My opponent has to leave early and concedes the game to me before we even start playing. Hooray for last round Byes! :p
Result : Win, 2-0
Final record : 5-0
So that's how it played out! I ended up taking 1st place out of 32 people and walked away with $17 cash as my prize :)
Overall I think the night went really well and confirmed my belief that a more tempo based version of Pox, running Dark Ritual and heavy on the threats, is well positioned in the current metagame. I do feel like I luck-sacked the win against TES a bit, but all the other games were good solid showings of Pox's capability as a deck. I'm very happy with my current maindeck although after that incident with Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire making life very unhappy for my Bloodghasts and Nether Spirit (and also seeing several Loam decks floating around) I would like to find space in the board for 2x Extirpate. I know I'm going to be taking out 1x Syphon Life since I never board in more than 1, but I'm not sure what the other card I'll be taking out will be. One other interesting tidbit is that I went into this thinking that Ratchet Bomb was just plain awful due to it being so slow and didn't really want to play it, but I felt like I needed an out to enchantments and creature hordes that Infest couldn't take care of. As it turns out Ratchet Bomb won me a couple games that I wouldn't have won without it (game 2 against Zoo and game 2 against TES) and I now have great deal more respect for the card. It's a bit slow, but there's just things it does for mono black that nothing else can do for 2 mana. It's a keeper.
I hope you enjoyed the tournament report and may you all have the same success with Pox that I've enjoyed in my first tournament with it! :)
Sligh : Winning with bad cards since 1996
Pox : Enjoy the crisp refreshing taste of your opponent's suffering
^ This is the feeling I get when playing against hand-control oriented pox. I've been looking at these lists from the past 3 pages of just..awful terrible cards after awful terrible cards, and I was always confused as to why it wasn't just things like.. Raven's Crime + The Rack and Sensei's Divining Top to always find business.
All the deck needs is a lot of ways to ignore the symmetry of smallpox / pox and the game is horribly painful. How has Liliana been for you? I'm not quite convinced she's necessary yet, small pox, pox, and raven's crime do all the discarding anyone would need and the former + innocent blood and ghastly demise pretty much handle any creature you'd need to kill as well.
Also, how do you feel about Mishra's Factory vs Chimeric Idol. From what I've seen the Idol does some serious work, requires no realistic cost to activate, is always a 3/3... It slightly hinders top activations since you can't do it EOT, which can be relevant.
Thanks for the reply Kich! ^_^
I've been very happy with Liliana, I think she's an absolute all star in Pox. First, she's a Raven's Crime that you don't need to top deck a land every turn to maintain. Just +1 and bam! Raven's Crime! I won several games just by getting out her and The Rack at the same time, the two work brutally well together. Her -2 ability is also quite handy for killing any creatures the opponent might top deck along the way. I find her -6 ability to be pretty irrelevant for the most part, but the +1 and -2 are do the exact sort of things a Pox deck would want a planeswalker to do. Her mana cost is also quite reasonable. I'd never count on playing anything with a CMC of 4 or greater in this deck, but 3 is quite doable and just the fact that you can Dark Ritual her out on turn 1 sometimes is nuts.
If I wasn't playing her I'd be playing Raven's Crime instead, but the simple fact that she does the same thing as Raven's Crime only better and can kill creatures as well led me to drop Raven's Crime for her.
Regarding Chimeric Idol, I personally don't think it's terribly good if you're running Liliana. The reason being that it costs 3 to cast. Although we are a control deck, the mana curve is still important and if you start loading up the deck with lots of stuff that costs 3 you're going to find yourself unable to cast it much of the time. In my list I'm already playing 7 cards that cost 3 to cast and I really wouldn't want to go any higher than that for fear of getting my hand clogged up with stuff I can't cast. Mishra's Factory however is free to cast, uncounterable, and can also tap for mana as well. That's why I'm running Factories instead of Chimeric Idol. They smooth out the mana curve while giving me another threat to finish the game with.
I do like your idea about Sensei's Divining Top though. I wouldn't mind trying out a couple sometime (probably in place of the 2x Tombstalker, since although he is quite the beater he's also the least synergistic card in the deck) but that would necessitate the inclusion of a good 8 or so fetchlands as well to get the most value out of it. The problem there is that I'm not sure if Pox can really stand the additional life loss from the fetchlands, and all to synergize with just 2 out of the 60 cards in the main deck. I'll probably proxy some Tops and fetches up at some point to give it a try since card selection in top deck mode seems quite good, but the life loss does concern me.
My roommate plays the deck (in my opinion, quite well). His main focus is The Rack and Chimeric Idol / Nether Spirit. He plays something like 26 land so having a few lands in your hand isn't hard to do. Mostly, he never goes past 3 lands, this way he will only ever lose 1 land. (Pox into land for turn duress has put me in an irrecoverable spot several times)
He plays it with a big focus on pox itself and making sure he never gets hit as hard as you do with it, once you go into top-deck mode it's hard to live when Raven's Crime / The Rack start going. Honestly the only times I see it go poorly for him is when his top 3 cards aren't useful, I'm thinking 1-2 fetches might help, but it's probably not necessary since it doesn't happen often.
Note: he doesn't run fetches with top because there are nearly zero useless cards. Lands are extra Raven's Crimes and Syphon Lives, creature kill can be got on demand, poxes and smallpoxes are always useful, even the creatures can be grabbed to make the poxes not so symmetrical.
I've been reading this for a bit, and I'm pretty certain I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway...what do people think of Despise? It takes creatures, or Planeswalkers, and it only costs
You don't have enough ways of dealing with creatures already?I've been reading this for a bit, and I'm pretty certain I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway...what do people think of Despise? It takes creatures, or Planeswalkers, and it only costs
Why would you play this over Thoughtseize, Duress, Hymn, or Inquisition?
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I was thinking of running it instead of Thoughtseize, at least. It doesn't cost life, and it seems that PW are the big issue people are having. Again, I'm not saying it's great or anything. I'm just asking the question.
Why wouldn't you run Duress instead? You can kill creatures all day. Half of your deck kills creatures. Duress hits Planeswalkers and everything else. Not being able to stop an Ad Naseum, Force of Will, Chalice, Trinisphere, etc, etc, etc... makes Despise much, much worse. If you don't want to run Thoughtseize, run Duress and use your creature kill cards to kill creatures. It's not like Standard where you don't want someone to cast a Primeval Titan because they get ETB triggers. This is Legacy. The only ETB is Snapcaster and running Despise to hit Snapcaster seems pretty bad.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
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