[Deck] Dredge

[joemauer]

Reanimator is really not that tough of a Matchup unless they get entomb into Elesh.
Having just a little hate like fairie macabre makes it a much easier game for us, if Que had chains as well it would have been that much easier.
Also, Reanimator is kinda a stupid combo deck that can poop on itself, like any combo deck really.

[Que]

In general:

In my playtesting I managed to extract a few things:

- Cephalid Coliseum is great!
- Slowing the game down via Cabal Therapy and Fearie Macabre is what you want to be doing.
- Overbearing them with Ichorids is the road to victory.

Believe it or not we will most likely be slow dredging against reanimator. I usually mull until I have a fearie macabre in hand. Now however longs it takes them to find a guy and reanimate (admittedly it can happen as fast as turn 2) is how many turns you have to draw extra cards back and hopefully they're things like Coliseum and Therapy. Or rainbow lands should you have kept a hand with no lands which I think is still fine because you'll have the hate in your hand and it can't get countered; you would have slowed their game plan enough to draw into some land.

Btw if you're on the play & have a Therapy in your hand cast it and name Entomb if it wasn't obvious already. Its their only Tutor in the deck. They have too many reanimation spells and unless you've seen their hand naming Exhume, Reanimate, or Animate Dead is like naming rituals against TES etc..

Anyways on to the Reanimation Matchup @ SCGLA. I have short term memory so here we go lol:

Game 1:
He must have kept a greedy hand although I don't know how often Reanimator keeps 1 Landers (I know they only play 16-17 lands). Anyways he cantrips a bit via Brainstorm & Ponder but it seems like hes stuck on the one land while I've already resolved a Careful Study into dredgers and pursue to do what the Dredge deck does. This wasn't fancy.

I was surprised I had won the 1st game and felt confident about game two.
-2 Breakthrough, -Darkblast,-Golgari Thug, -1Dread Return +4 Fearie Macabre, +1 Chain of Vapor

Game 2:
He thoughtseized me on the play when I had the Fearie in my Hand. I felt crushed inside ;__; on my turn I top into another fearie macabre :D! He binns Elesh norn and attempts to reanimate it. I proceed to exile it. Later though he bins Blazing Archon and I have no outs aside from drawing my 1 chain which doesn't get there. I felt terribad because I could have sided in Angel of Despair. <__<;

I believe I cut a Careful study to side in Angel of despair

Game 3:
I'm on the play with double macabre, a rainbow land, 3 other cards and Cabal Therapy! I drop my land and therapy him which resolves. I name Entomb. He looks at his buddy and he knows. I revealed two Entombs from his hand. he had mulled to six. After that his hand was FOW, 2 lands, Reanimate iirc. He was hoping to go off turn two. Slowed him down enough for me to draw Dredge pieces. I felt pretty comfortable with the double fearie in my hand. Since I can cast stuff without fearing a counterspell breakthrough and careful study became MVP. In the end he was not able to build on anything after I had stripped his hand to 3 legends, and a FOW that no longer mattered.

If you're interested in why I chose Fearie over Leyline of the Void:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post612639

[Ziilot]

I played dredge yesterday at Finnish Legacy Champs (99 players). Won first three rounds and then lost three and dropped after that.

Won two Reanimators and Spanish Inquisition, lost to Pox, UR Delver and UW Stoneblade. Delver and Stoneblade matchups aren't so bad, but when you have to mull to five in both of the first games, I guess this is what happens. If I am to play Dredge again before Faithless Looting becomes legal, I'll cut one Ichorid for Tarnished Citadel and DEFINITELY play Ancient Grudges in my sideboard.

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Firestorm
2 Dread Return

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Nature's Claim
4 Chain of Vapor
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair

[dredgekid]

I have a tech that I just tried out for fun at a local tournament that actually proved useful. I decided to take a page out of vintage dredge and run a sun titan as a DR target in the main alongside FZ. It did wonders and I ended up taking first. I was just wondering if anyone else has tried this and how it went for them.

It is worth noting, this was in an LED dredge shell.

[Beatusnox]

hey guys.

I was looking through the spoilers today and came across this:

Flayer of the Hatebound
5

Undying(whenever this creature dies if it had no +1/+1 counters on it return it to the battlefield under its owners control with a +1/+1 counter on it.)

Whenever Flayer of the Hatebound or another creature enters the battlefield from your graveyard, that creature deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
4/2

So overall, The creature has me unsure, on the one hand, it could very much so be abused, on the other hand it could be absolutely awful and would only be used as a DR target, or maybe an answer to to show and tell. It makes ichorids lightning bolts, before combat, nether shadows ping for 1, and I believe the way it is worded it would make narcomoebas hit for 1 as well. It seems like a card that will be meh, but I still want to test it. Any other thoughts?

[Klazam]

Seems like a pretty good card, actually.

9 damage by itself, and turns DR this, then DR Grave-Troll in a nice kill.

[Izor]

I don't think anyone will have room for this in the main deck, but now that I think about it, it might have potential in the sb in certain metagames and as an alternate win condition vs Propaganda effects and such, Idk.

[HokusSchmokus]

I have a tech that I just tried out for fun at a local tournament that actually proved useful. I decided to take a page out of vintage dredge and run a sun titan as a DR target in the main alongside FZ. It did wonders and I ended up taking first. I was just wondering if anyone else has tried this and how it went for them.

It is worth noting, this was in an LED dredge shell.

Sun Titan is the best LED dredge DR targt there is, imo. By far.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Since Ooze is practically the only hate we run into game one, does it make sense to use 1 Sun Titan, 1 Eternal Witness, and at least 1 Firestorm in the main? It's a pretty old tech, I know, but it has a useful application now.

[jares]

@ Jares
Leyline of the Void isn't even a card. I mean it does not win the game and thats not that good for a 4 mana spell in Legacy. With a list that runs lands I lost exactly once in my life to Leyline, at GP Amsterdam( the guy who placed second with Canadian-ish)
So no, I won't play it, and don't expect to run into it and if I do it will most likely not do anything. Thanks for the advice tho.:)

I like how Leyline of the Void was put this way:

"The problem with explicitly boarding cards to deal with it (read: Chain of Vapor) is that they take up a lot of sideboard space for something that is very unlikely to actually win you a game. You can't assume Leyline in game two (pretty much ever), so the only time you'll realistically be bringing in Chain is for game three. Then for it to have been worth it, you have to draw Chain, and a keepable hand, and they have to draw Leyline, and they also have to not draw more Leylines than you draw Chains. And then after all that, you don't automatically win—you just get to play Magic.

It's just not worth it. Too much has to go right for you to get your money's worth out of 3-4 sideboard slots devoted to fighting Leyline."

I've been trying to convince myself that Faerie Macabre is the better choice for the reasons stated by Que, but I can't shake-off the image of "possibly" going against Leyline of the Void and not being able to do anything. I've gone against Leyline of the Void only once so far, and I was fortunate enough to have a Nature's Claim as I came prepared... but after that, the card has really been a myth. I ran it during the last tourney I played, but never got the chance to draw it in my opening hand (I boarded it in for the first time against the mirror). The funny thing is that my opponent also boarded it in, but didn't draw into it on the opening hand too! I did have my own Nature's Claim in my opening hand, but it eventually proved unnecessary.

All things being considered, I prefer to go with consistency, and my MD is built with that in mind. Having Leyline of the Void encourages you to be more aggressive in the mulligan, which by definition injects inconsistency in what you're trying to achieve.

Does anyone else play Leyline of the Void, or even prepare against it (especially in the dense Dredge metagame in HokusSchmokus' area)?

Kind Regards,
jares

[jares]

I don't think anyone will have room for this in the main deck, but now that I think about it, it might have potential in the sb in certain metagames and as an alternate win condition vs Propaganda effects and such, Idk.

This card will also help against Ensnaring Bridge and Blazing Archon (though we already have SB cards that help with those, e.g. Chain of Vapor). In terms of speed, it can kill-off an opponent just as quickly as FKZ could (which would both require 6 tokens), but won't require an attack phase, dodging possible blockers and the like. It WILL require another sacrifice outlet other than the DR that brought it into play though...

I guess the main difference of this creature's ability when compared to the other more popular DR targets is that it can kill a lot of creatures when necessary (which probably won't be useful too often given that you can simply just WIN ).

Kind Regards,
jares

[Que]

@Jares. Don't get me wrong. Just because I haven't seen Leyline get played in the past 9 months or so I've been playing Dredge in the Local LA Tournaments doesn't mean I don't have respect for the card. That is why I still keep Nature's Claims in the SB. For the SCG LA open I actually swapped out the Nature's Claims for Chain of Vapor as I felt it had more applications outside of bouncing leyline.

Funny thing happened in the tournament. I won my round 1. Round 2 I had to face U/W Stoneblade which I felt pretty good about considering its a favorable matchup. I steamroll game 1. Game 2 I believe I sided in 3 grudges for potential Crypt/Relic & they're still good against Batterskull. Anyway he keeps an opening seven and drops a Leyline on me 0_0 I was cold to it. He must have went with Tony Chu's SB after his open win. Game 3 I side in my chains. Again he keeps his opening 7 and drops the leyline on me. I had the chain this time. I was on the play and of course I attempt to chain it and it gets FOW'd :/ I then proceed to draw 6 lands in my 14 land deck. fun times...

Round 3 I lost to Brad Strickman iirc who was running some crazy brew featured in the deck Tech. After he Plunge into Darkness for 14 he drops a Death's Shadow and double berserks me for 32 damage on turn 2 or 3. :/
Game 2 he mulls to five and I jokingly make a comment about him trying to search for leyline. The joke ends when he drops 2 of them on me. *sigh

So after not seeing this card in almost a year I manage to get wrecked by it all day. heh.

But at least a buddy of mine made Top 8 with Dredge featuring the Bloodghast variant. Jason is a more than competent pilot and I'm glad he represented. Not only that but I would urge everyone to take a look at this list to spark more discussion and look beyond the "stock" Dredge list.

Maindeck:

Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Golgari Thug
2 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
1 Woodfall Primus

Enchantments
4 Bridge from Below

Instants
1 Darkblast

Sorceries
2 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return

Lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Undiscovered Paradise

Sideboard:
2 Ichorid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Firestorm
4 Nature's Claim
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

[joemauer]

Ok I will ask questions about his list.

Why woodfall primus main? I find this card to be best against enchantress, lands, stax, and control(like thopter) type decks. Not too great into today's meta. Did it help him much?

Sun Titan + Bloodghast seems nice. Ever considered?

Firestorm appears to be better than tribe. Am I wrong?


Finally, this list shows us that having the most "optimal" number of dredgers, draw spells, and discard outlets does not matter as much as people would like it to. Dredge can win in the hands of a competent player.

Side note: I had someone call me a bad dredge player[online] because I used only 11 dredgers. I then proceeded to beat this player playing some combo deck, high tide or ANT(don't really remember).

[NecroYawgmoth]

Oh Wizards, why do you do that? Why? Why? Why?

Today is a sad day. =( =( =(



Grafdigger's Cage

Artifact 1

Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards in graveyards or libraries.

[joemauer]

Oh Wizards, why do you do that? Why? Why? Why?

Today is a sad day. =( =( =(



Grafdigger's Cage

Artifact 1

Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards in graveyards or libraries.

Tom LaPile's legacy lives on.

[HokusSchmokus]

Meh. Well seems like I have to up the number of Grudges again.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Isn't something like Oxidize better than Grudge because of cc1?

[Beatusnox]

Isn't something like Oxidize better than Grudge because of cc1?

Grudge Flashes back

[NecroYawgmoth]

Grudge Flashes back

Grafdigger's Cage: Players can't cast cards in graveyards or libraries.

[jares]

Oh Wizards, why do you do that? Why? Why? Why?

Today is a sad day. =( =( =(



Grafdigger's Cage

Artifact 1

Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries.
Players can't cast cards in graveyards or libraries.

I don't think GY hate can get any better than that. Such fun

• Affordable Cost? check.
• Can generally be used in any deck? check.
• Addresses EVERYTHING that can be done from a GY? check. Well, I think lands got overlooked when this was designed, haha

I guess that pretty much concludes the Nature's Claim VS. Chain of Vapor discussion

It's going to be VEEEEEEEEEERY interesting to see how we'll be able to address this.

Kind Regards,
jares