[Deck] Elves Combo

[Koby]

From what I understand:

Carpet of Flowers comes in vs blue decks (obv) at the expense of Llanowar Elves

Against non-blue decks, Natural Order comes in, since Progenitus is hard to deal with.

I'm still unsure about Dismember, maybe this is an out to Grim Lavamancer? I personally like Mortarpod to deal with Dark Confidant, Grim Lavamancer, Canonist (tho I prefer KGrip since it also kills E-plague).

[Alexeezay]

Ok, thank you.
I'm still unsure about the consistency of the mana base. 12 Forest 4 Gaea's Cradle... doesn't it seem too greedy? You always have to have at least 1 forest in your opening hand
Maybe 1 more Forest and only 3 Cradles?

[Koby]

Without running fetchlands, 12 Forest is fine. I've played lists that ran as few as 10 before and that did a fine job. Fetchlands run a risk of being Stifled, so you generally increase the count; but 12 basic lands is the minimum.

Mulling to get at least 1 Forest has always been this deck's "problem", so that is nothing new.

[resum]

4 Cradles. Always 4 Cradles if you can afford them. A cradle is the best card you can draw, and sometimes you even need two of them if they have wasteland. I've never been unhappy drawing multiple cradles, because that meant I already had a cradle.

[Alexeezay]

Alright I played a few matches with Olivier's list on MWS yesterday and only mulliganed once or twice. Turns out the Forest count should be fine. Definitely upping Cradles from 3 to 4 now.

[blind]

2. For what creatures do you need Dismember except Ethersworn Canonist? Is it that good?
3. How do you use Carpet of Flowers? Where is it useful, how & in which matchups do you sideboard it in?
Thanks :)

2. It's also very good against Gaddock Teeg when you want to resolve a Natural Order post sideboard. It's a good way to get an edge over SFM that has just fetched a batterskull.

3. Carpet are going in against UR delver and RUG/*****. Those MU are mainly based on resources and our ability or disability to overextend.

As you know, the main way to overextend with elfball is to get mana from your elves, and a good opponent will take them down as fast as he can in order for you not to extend. With carpet you are opposing a resource he can't deal with and that allows you to establish your game plan.

[Darklingske]

I've been playing Olivier Pamart's list for a week now, but I don't have that incredible good feeling with it, unlike with the full combo version. Maybe I'm doing all the wrong things, but if it's so, then I don't know what I'm doing wrong. What is the right angle for that deck? Can anyone explain it to me? It could be that it's because of my fellow players. They all know how to play against Elves. Typically a game will go like this:
Me: forest, Llanowar (countered)
They: Land, Thoughtseize
Me: forest, elf (or symbiote)
They: destroy elf or symbiote
Me: play Fauna
And then what? Do I pitch the remaining elf to search for the missing combopiece or do I just go and search VV? I really don't know. With the combo version I don't have any problems at all G1, but G2 is horrible and that is why I'm trying Olivier's List. Anyone that can help me concerning this problem?

[Godmode]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...17522472_n.jpg


Quoting Vandalize from the Dredge thread:

"I guess that card will mess the entire format, and will be a good candidate for a Ban Hammer, because it hits every deck in the format: Dredge, Reanimator, GSZ.dec (GW/x Maverick, Nic Fit, Bant Aggro), Natural Order.dec (Bant, RUG and Elves), ANT/TES (shutting off Past in Flames), Snapcaster.dec, Lands.dec."


This isn't gonna affect Elves as much as Dredge, but it's still rough tho. Fauna build will probably get more popular if Grafdigger's Cage finds a way into alot of SBs.

[soiber2000]

It will find a way in a lot of SB for sure, and it hits quite a lot of cards in my elves list (similar to Pamart's list): mainboard 4xGSZ and 4xVengevine, and also postboard 4xNatural Order. It affects a lot!

By the way, last saturday I played a 120 players tournament, and was really happy with my performance: 5-1 until last round. And my last round was against MUD and chalice for 1 the first turn in those 2 matches, so missed top8 and 5-2.

I have to admit that 4xVengevine maindeck was a good call winning some matches just for that, and the Natural Order postboard plan was also good.

Win: Merfolks, GWzenith, Agroloam, RUGB agrocontrol and rug tempo
Lost: Reanimator (almost imposible but he was at 1 life before killed me twice) and MUD with perfect hands in both matches.

[blind]

Pierre Sommen (winner GP Amsterdam) has played my decklist in 116players event. He lost the last round for the top 8 and finished at 5-2.

It will find a way in a lot of SB for sure, and it hits quite a lot of cards in my elves list (similar to Pamart's list): mainboard 4xGSZ and 4xVengevine, and also postboard 4xNatural Order. It affects a lot!

yeah but you can always search Viridian Shaman with Fauna. I'm not sure this card is played much, much less in many slot.

[Godmode]

I almost positive that Cage won't interfer with the Vengevine engine, since you don't cast it.

[lord182]

I almost positive that Cage won't interfer with the Vengevine engine, since you don't cast it.

But the cage don't lets cards enter the battlefield from graveyards

[Godmode]

But the cage don't lets cards enter the battlefield from graveyards

Oh yeah, you're correct.

"Creature cards can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries"

[GoldenCid]

From what I understand:

Carpet of Flowers comes in vs blue decks (obv) at the expense of Llanowar Elves

Against non-blue decks, Natural Order comes in, since Progenitus is hard to deal with.

.

i'd like to see your list with NO-Proggy in side.

For the moment i post my decklist (Very solid pre board)
For advices:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
8 [LRW] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures
1 [RAV] Nullmage Shepherd
3 [M10] Elvish Visionary
4 [SC] Wirewood Symbiote
1 [EVE] Regal Force
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (is 2 too much or just 1 works??)
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [M11] Elvish Archdruid
4 [U] Llanowar Elves
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [VI] Quirion Ranger
4 [ON] Birchlore Rangers

// Spells
4 [CHK] Glimpse of Nature
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [FUT] Summoner's Pact

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of Lifeforce (i'm not sure if this is rentable nowadays. When i included in the list CB was everywhere)
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [LE] Caller of the Claw
SB: 1 [10E] Viridian Shaman

Thx very very much.

[Alexeezay]

Wooded Foothills should better be Forest because of Stifle (Canadian Thresh/Team America).

You don't need 4 Birchlore Rangers in Mono G with Summoner's Pacts. I would rather play 4 Visionaries and 4 S.Pact.

Why 2 Emrakul? the 2nd Emrakul is a dead card. You're better off playing Chord of Calling, Crop Rotation, Gaea's Cradle or an useful Elf like Fauna Shaman/Viridian Shaman/Ezuri/Priest of Titania in its place.

Leyline of Lifeforce isn't very useful except against Counterbalance. But even then it's better to play Krosan Grip or something like that or you go with Vengevines.

[GoldenCid]

Priest of Titania in its place.
.

Indeed?? What is your experience on her? I considered a bit slow :/

[Kich867]

Indeed?? What is your experience on her? I considered a bit slow :/

An un-dealt with priest on turn 2 results in a guaranteed turn 3 win. I see nothing wrong with her. She's awful mid-combo but pre-combo she's an all-star.

[Koby]

I don't play with NO-Proggy; it is much weaker against decks that already bring in Perish. I can see it being good against Maverick and Zoo, so there might be some merit to that plan. However, their only real way to interact with the combo is Canonist and Punishing Fires. The former can be dealt with Krosan Grip (which should come in regardless to deal with Jitte) and the latter can be ignored if you wait for an optimal time to combo off.

Elves generally has a good matchup vs Maverick, so I don't see why the No/Prog is even necessary.

[Augustas]

So far 2-0 in the MtgSalvation cockatrice tourney with Pamart's list :)

[Tammit67]

I don't play with NO-Proggy; it is much weaker against decks that already bring in Perish. I can see it being good against Maverick and Zoo, so there might be some merit to that plan. However, their only real way to interact with the combo is Canonist and Punishing Fires. The former can be dealt with Krosan Grip (which should come in regardless to deal with Jitte) and the latter can be ignored if you wait for an optimal time to combo off.

Elves generally has a good matchup vs Maverick, so I don't see why the No/Prog is even necessary.

Was testing tonight against your winning 75. Only game I lost with elves was when he had fires and swords early and I didnt have glimpse. Even then I could have just dropped lands and passed the turn until I had more in hand to go off with and he would have had more of a problem.

Elves seems really good right now