Six copies of hate is about the max you can side in.Those odds can't be terrible after a few mulligans.You may draw it and steal g2; or not, then you have the advantage g3.
What I'm wondering is study vs. putrid imp once I switch to LED. I'd say study, but then my black creatures would only total 12, including ichorid. That seems pretty low, wouldn't ya say?
Just play both, You are on the right way. What is the weakest link of your list?Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
@Devil: You can recur it or dredge into it and put it on top with thug.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Haha - I came to a very similar conclusion in the Maverick thread Tuesday.
How does Cage affect Lands.dec?
I think CounterTop will add black, especially with the printing of Sorin and 1 one Cage main with Enlightened Tutor maindeck.
When Cage becomes popular, Canadian Thresh will replace Snapcaster with Nimble Mongoose (if it hasn't already), but I think U/R Delver will suffer since it relies on Snapcaster.
By the way: since Cage is a Rare, it might be a good idea to buy some number of playsets of it on release. I mean this a 1 card solution to a big part of Legacy, it surely will rise in price. I will at least buy 4 Playsets, just to have 4 Playsets less that my opponents can play:P
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
I'm just glad it is a rare and not mythic. I don't really think the cost will be that much after a few weeks. I could see it dropping to almost nothing. What kind of play do you think it will see in other formats?
Last edited by Water_Wizard; 01-19-2012 at 02:43 PM.
i usually brainstorm away my snapcasters for more burn/counters. even if i drew nuts I usually don't even have to play snapcaster ftw. a lot of times it's just another blue card that gets pitched to force. price of progress resolving twice usually wins me the game a lot more often than being able to flashback a bolt or chain lightning or whatever.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing swallowed up in death. And death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
Given that UW/ UR Delver with Snappy is a real deck in standard, Birthing Pod is a real deck in standard and Modern(Melira), and this card also shuts off any attempts to play Combo with Past in Flames in every Format, I think this will see a lot of play.In Vintage too but I don't count that.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Hahaha. There you go people. Please refrain from posting things that you haven't thought through, and always remember that reading is also what these forums are for, so practice some reading before deciding on wasting some forum space. Otherwise, you run the risk of pissing HokusSchmokus off
In general, it isn't very helpful to keep causing people to reiterate themselves over and over again (though even I had to keep myself updated by asking a few questions). It's best to try and be progressive by keeping up with the current progress. Also, if you have an opinion, keep it that way, as we are all entitled to our opinion. If you've got an argument, though, make sure that you back it up with something meaningful (e.g. Testing, Experience, Logical Reasoning, Statistical Analysis, etc.), otherwise, that'll just cause more wasted forum space.
At the end of the day, there really aren't any right or wrong answers - there are just the thoughtless ones and the defensible ones.
Cheers,
jares
I would also suggest that you play both Putrid Imp and Careful Study, as these cards both add a lot of consistency to what the deck is trying to achieve. Careful Study is often given credit for being able to serve two (2) major purposes in the deck as a discard outlet and draw mechanism, but I find that Putrid Imp is seldom given credit for being able to serve three (3) major purposes in the deck as a discard outlet, a warm body for Ichorid while in the GY, and a warm body for Dread Return or Cabal Therapy while in play. In that sense, Putrid Imp seldom becomes the weakest link in Dredge lists.
Kind Regards,
jares
Don't forget that PImp is an evasive 2/2 that can win some games on his own.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
That too. PImp is one of the few cards that can actually help you even when your GY isn't in good shape. The same goes for Careful Study, so play both!
Cheers,
jares
I'd like to play both, but I'm using 2 dread return and 2 sun titan. So how do i cut anything? 12 land, 12 dredgers, 4 of breakthrough, looting, LED, bridge, therapy, narco, ichorid, & (pimp vs. study).
Just do a 2/2 split?
This is what I would do:
- -1 Dread Return
- -2 Sun Titan
- -1 Ichorid
...and that pretty much gives you the room you need. But don't take my word for it, because that's just me and how I've learned to make things work for my meta. Others might be able to give more relevant feedback for what you're trying to achieve.
Cheers,
jares
You know, I had the same problem. I mean not knowing what to cut for the Studies.
What you really should do is analyze your playstyle, analyze what the deck does and then build a list. For example, right now I am not playing Dread Return anywhere in my 75 because I find it underwhelming.Always.Exspecially with LED.
Others , who play in a combo heavy meta e.g., might find themselves not being able to win against some decks due to speed issues. That's when you play some combo specific DR target. As I am guessing, you just like DR-ing a fatty and win from the explosiveness a Sun Titan offers. While this doesn't suit my playstyle, it might suit yours.If so, and if you believe it is a good addition to the deck, play it like this, but keep on critically analyzing your card choices.
What you thought was needed might turn out to be just "danger of cool things"-ish and the other way around.
Also think of the disadvanteges your choices bring, like losing concistency(is this spelld right?), losing speed, not having outs to certain situations( this is the problem with my list tbh) but since you cannot have everything, chose the configuration you feel most comfortable with.
Just be sure you don't stack your list full of bad cards just because you like them:P
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
This is my current list:
//Maindeck
//Lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
//Discard-Outlets
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
//Dredger
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
//Winner
4 Bridge from Below
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
X Tokens!!
//Sideboard
2 Tarnished Citadel
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Purify the Grave
1 Coffin Purge
4 Nature's Claim
I'm with Hokus, i don't play Dread Return in my 75 too. I tested it, and i came to the conclusion, that i don't need my Dread Returns.
I think i will play it in Iserlohn (Germany) at 5.2.12
But i'm not sure about just ignoring Leyline and add Ingot Chewer and Shattering Spree in the slots of Nature's Claim.
K1w1
I would highly advise against running anything less than four Ichorid. Without Bridges, Dredge can surprisingly be light on threats and sometimes Ichorid is your only out to feeding a Dread Return or simply by grinding through combat. It might be fine to cut one ore two and diversify your threats post-board to offset the brutality of a Surgical Extraction, but you really should never run anything less than four Ichorids main-deck. (I understand the list that did well at Los Angeles had only two Ichorid, but that was to simply fool an opponent into 'wasting' a Surgical Extraction post-board. This plan also involved Bloodghast, also rather non-ubiquitous choice.)
Sun Titan is incredibly good with L.E.D., which in my build is currently running a full set of Desperate Ravings. (Which will easily turn to 'Looting when it becomes legal.) There is also another card I've been experimenting with Sun Titan: Attunement.
The thing here is that while Sphinx of Lost Truths already does the whole "draw three cards, discard three cards," Sun Titan also gives you the flexibility of bringing back cards like Attunement, Cephalid Coliseum, Lion's Eye Diamond (in conjunction with Ravings-soon-to-be-F.L.), or a another creature. I think it could be win-more, but at the point you're 'Returning a Titan into play, you're probably either going to win the game or set the turn up to completely overwhelm an opponent and blow the game wide open. If you do run Zealot, then you're winning that turn anyways.
It's pretty obvious at this point everyone is migrating to L.E.D. lists, so considering just how good Titan is with L.E.D., it might at the very least be worth considering. (Note that Titan also influences the mulligan strategy with this deck: he is able to recur lost L.E.D.'s which doesn't necessarily force you to rely on open-handing one). If I play at the D.C. Open on Sunday, I'll be running L.E.D.-based Dredge with Sun Titan.
It will probably make more sense to use pimp in sun titan builds. I'm going to start with those.
@four Ichorid - I agree. Pretty much the only matchup they aren't great is combo. I used to play three and found I sided the fourth in more than 75% of the time. That's probably a conservative estimate. I've found they are much more useful in the main.
That's pretty much how I ended up with 4x Ichorid too, having it in the SB (and always siding it in), and eventually realizing that I'm much more comfortable with already having them in the MD.
I'm currently not sure of whether or not I want to play the LED list, so it'll be interesting how these developments turn out. At this point, it's difficult to say no to what LED Dredge has to offer.
Kind Regards,
jares
From a Dredge perspective, I am very happy about the printing of Cage. Why? Because it is SO much easier to beat than any other relevant form of graveyard hate. If you know they are on Cage hate, you can just explode off of Breakthroughs and LEDs all day and Grudge the Cage when it comes down. Hopefully everyone will move towards Cage and forget about Leyline completely.
Of course you need Grudge in your hand and two mana open for that.
On the bright side, we know how to side against any deck now. we can use Nature's Claim + Spree every g2 if the things get ugly.
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
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