Being Indestructible isn't a benefit in Legacy. Most of the removal that's relevant is the Exiling type; and that deals with Predator Ooze just fine.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
It has slight benefits. It can't be blocked to trade, is a perma wall and can't be Bolted. Most decks only have up to 4 exiling spells main. I don't think it is amazing, but it has niche roles. Better than exisiting creatures like KotR and Mystic though?Originally Posted by rukcus
I think it, P. Ooze, has some applications depending on your meta. However, Swords is still supreme.
Also, could someone please explain to me how Garruk Relentless is good against Nic Fit--other than getting around Deed?
It has built in removal. It can generate tokens and it can tutor. Elspeth can only make dudes and sometimes Jump when you still manage to keep a guy around. Last time I played against the BG deed deck I managed to deal 6 damage all match. That includes his fetches...
So really the only two choices are Elspeth Knight Errant or Garruk 1.0 or 3.0. The Garruk 3 has the most use including the Nice Fit matchup. Elspeth has the most use otherwise.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
The idea is that you keep pumping out token creatures after their mass removal (Deed, Damnation, Perish, etc.). Against Nic Fit, it becomes a game of attrition, eventually (barring a blow-out), you are both drawing off the top of your deck. A Garruk (unflipped) is like drawing a Grizzly Bear every turn along with the above-mentioned benefits. The idea is you create more threats than they have answers and win the war of attrition! (and hope they don't hit you with discard or Maelstrom Pulse ;) )
From my tests the most issue with Nic Fit is:
-Pernicous Deed + even more removal - some version runs Shriekmaws also..
-tempo plan is useless since resolved Explorer with Therapy = implosive mana
So basically we can attack from two angles - Manabase - cards like Catacylsm - very good since it blow up also plainswalkers and protection from mass removal - thinking about Revoker/Needle vs Deed.
Also not so bad are all flesh creatures, since 95% of their removal is sorcery speed so Aven Mindcensor can be very good here.
Fun typo there, all these creatures made of flesh!
I do love Cataclysm and have used it often in WW. It would certainly help make Knight bigger for the final push.
I've been trying out Chord of Calling as a 1-of in the deck and it worked out well. Having 2 creatures in play is all you need for it to be on par mana-wise with green sun. The GGG requirement is kinda hard, but being able to cast it EOT and being able to get any creature (SFM, MoR) is a huge plus.
It's a lot easier to cast in builds running Cradle and no Bog/Maze MD, but really the only times I haven't been able to cast it is due to not having enough mana without convoke.
I played this deck in DC (with punishing fire) and lost my win and in round against re-animator on camera. I feel like his hands were pretty nuts, but it's whatever. I'm pretty sure that the best plan with this deck against pernicious deed it to try and aggressively wasteland them and hope you can kill them fast. Other than that I think you just lose. I feel like the cards you choose should be because they are good against other match ups and just ignore the deed decks.
Pridemage can be useful if you can get them off guard but that doesn't happen much.
Yeah, but Nic Fit runs 6+ basics. Against Team America, the mana denial might work. Out of curiosity, how did Reanimator beat you? (What creatures did he bring into play and how?)
I'm not the best player in the world, but why didn't you search for a knight of the reliquary instead of progenitus? The knight could search for karakas, bojuka bog or a maze of ith.
I was thinking about it today at work, and I came up with a sideboard that, I think, is pretty solid for Mav (at least classic GW).
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Surgical Extraction
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Pithing Needle
2x Choke
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Terravore
The needles hit more than just deeds and walkers, but also equips, stoneforges (a reasonable tradeoff) fetchs, and practically anything else under the sun. the Traps are for the combo/storm matchup, but can also be used against RUG/UB Delver (snap and his target already count twice for the trap's cost). I realize this isn't very realistic, but still something to think about.
Chokes, the Bog and Extractions are pretty obvious. I run Maze of Ith instead of bog in my main because my 2 scavenging oozes do a lot of gravehate on their own, esp. when ramped by my Gaea's Cradle.
Terravore is a mirrormatch card, but also dope against a lot of decks in legacy right now--given the extensive use of fetches and wastelands. a 5/5 trampler for 3 is still pretty damn good in my book, but he can easily grow to 10/10 or higher.
I'm fairly convinced with garruk after hearing earlier comments. The only other walker i can think of would be Primal Hunter, but GGG is a pain to summon up in some matchups, and CMC 5 is too expensive to hit early.
Definitely would like to hear what you guys think of this SB. Thanks!
What's your deck list? Thanks for the link, I realized it existed once you said you were the feature match, so that's why I asked for your recount and didn't just view the link myself. But anyway, I watched it. It was not fun spending 18 minutes watching that video and it's been a long day, but I did it anyway. Let me answer my question for you:
Game 1. My opponent wins the roll and choses to play. I know he's on reanimator because I sat next to him in previous rounds/someone told me. He plays Polluted Delta and Fetches a Swamp. I play Punishing Grove into Noble Hierarch. EOMT, he Entombs for Jin. He plays Scalding Tarn and fetches UGS. He plays Animate Dead on Jin. At EOHT, Jin triggers and he discards some stuff. On my turn, I drop a land and try to GSZ for 2. When my opponent FOW's, I concede.
I sideboard like this...
Game 2. My opening hand has 5 land and 2 Natural Order. 1 of those land is Karakas. I choose to send it back. I mull to 6. My opponent mulls to 6. I send that back for a mull to 5. My opponent holds his 6. My 5 contains XYZ. I lead with a turn 1 Noble Hierarch. My opponent plays a Polluted Delta into an island. Turn 2, I drop a land and attack with Hierarch. My opponent Brainstorms at EOMT. Turn 2, my opponent drops a swamp and casts a 2nd brainstorm. Turn 3, I drop a Bojuka Bog, removing a fetch and 2 brainstorms and attack with Hierarch. Turn 3 my opponent drops Scalding Tarn into UGS and casts S&T. I Pyroblast. Turn 4, I drop a land and cast Natural Order, saccing Hierarch. My opponent Dazes, and I tap my 4th land to pay for it. Why my opponent left Daze in on the draw, I do not know. Why my opponent cast it when I had mana open, I also do not know. Perhaps to tap me out so I couldn't STP next turn or to tie up my green mana in case I bring Scavenging Ooze into play. I recognize this and realize my opponent is probably going to use his graveyard to reanimate a creature next turn, why else would he tap me out?. I drop Progenitus into play. On Turn 4, my opponent replays his Island and casts Careful Study, discarding Elesh Norn and Empyrical Archangel. My opponent Entombs Blazing Archon and Reanimates, dropping him to 7. If I can only draw an STP and get it through, I win. Turn 5, I Waste my opponents UGS. Turn 5, my opponent attacks, dropping me to 15. Turn 6, I play a Misty Rainforest and pass. Turn 6, my opponent swings, dropping me to 10. I really need that STP! Turn 7 I draw STP. I cast it, but my opponent FOW's pitching Careful Study. Turn 8, I draw a Natural Order. I cast it, saccing Progenitus and attempting to go for KotR, so I can pull out Maze of Ith, but my opponent has another FOW, pitching Spell Pierce - Why did he pitch Spell Pierce when he could have just cast it, idk. I scoop.
From the commentary, I learned you play a transformational Natural Order sideboard. Comments about that?
You are correct, your opponent drew quite well. 2nd game was certainly a heartbreaker. In retrospect, any regrets about not keeping your original 7 in game 2? I prefer you provide your own account of the match, as a) I don't know what you were thinking, b) I don't know what you had in your hand (minus certain cards which were shown), c) I don't know what you sided in, d) I don't have to watch an annoying 20 minute video, and e) I don't have to listen to those commentators, even though they are sometimes funny and insightful, although mostly chattering just to fill up space and are only partially competent regarding the Legacy metagame. Sometimes they are right on, but other times, I find myself asking what they are thinking. I guess all the truly skilled players are playing in the tournament. I am thankful they record and provide the videos, despite everything I've said above.
He'd already played Bojuka Bog at that point, but regarding the ability to search for Karakas or Maze, good point.
Maybe he was tired from a long day of playing, maybe he was nervous to be on camera. Maybe he was just so surprised that his mull to 5 had a chance to win that he just decided to go for his quickest route. Maybe he was worried about Pithing Needle. We'll just have to wait for a response...
What's your sideboard plan against certain decks? Is your main the same as you posted a page back? What's most important is your sideboard plan against certain match-ups. It's hard providing feedback just by looking at a decklist and sideboard and not know what you're planning to take in and out. It also depends on the decks you think you are going to face. Large tournament, local shop, online?
I don't think he was expecting the Blazing Archon, but KoTR would have been game as Maze or Karakas would have slow down Reanimator.
In a meta game with bant/ichirid/goblins would you play gw or gwr? How would you board?
#mtgfinance follow on twitter: @mtgStaples
Team Brown & Team Unicorn. Does that make me a Brown Unicorn?
I conceded game 1 after he countered my spell because I can't win after I discard my hand. Game 2 I mulliganed the 7 because I had 4 lands, 2 Natural Order, and a Progenitus. While Karakas is sweet; I have to slow roll it so when he entombs he just doesnt grab archangel or Sphinx. And if I do than he might just grab a Jin and after he draws 7 I lose anyways. I would rather mulligan and hope than only count on a Karakas. When I played the second Natural Order in game 2 it was just a joke because I was dead on board.
My list at the moment is...
Maindeck:
Artifacts
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
Instants
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Legendary Creatures
1 Gaddock Teeg
Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
Basic Lands
1 Forest
Lands
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Tower of the Magistrate
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
Land Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
Legendary Lands
1 Karakas
Sideboard:
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Stony Silence
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Pyroblast
2 Enlightened Tutor
5 NO Package
Against him I brought out Tower, Goyf, the mystic package, loam, the punishing fire, and Teeg I believe. Brought in everything but Stony silence and canonist.
You still didn't explain why you got progenitus instead of knight of the reliquary with the first natural order in game 2. Also, why side out your burn spells when they are on of the few outs to blazing archon? Did you opponent just get "teh nuts" or would tighter play on your part have changed what happened?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
