[Deck] Elves Combo

[kicks_422]

My non-Elf cards in the deck are currently 4 Glimpse of Nature, 4 Living Wish, and 4 Green Sun's Zenith.

I haven't lost a match for some time now.

[Tammit67]

you're a massive dog to zoo and punishing fire decks without no-prog

Zoo, sure. Punishing fire maverick? I have not found that to be the case.

[Augustas]

What I meant about saying that exact SB is unnecessary is that if you don't own Orders/Progenitus, usual SB like 4 Grips + Combo hate + Grave hate does just fine. My meta is completely combotastic with things like TES/Doomsday/Dredge running around and I really don't want to be a bye for them. I have very limited exerience piloting elves against other combo decks and since I'm running Vengevine build, the only match-up I'm concerned about is not Zoo or other aggro decks but in fact combo. Any suggestions? Mindbreak Trap sucks because of Silence/Duress, Thorns does help but I still feel that it's still kinda lackluster to beat combo.

[blind]

My decklist is just bad if you have lof of combo deck in your metagame.

[Augustas]

Well, but I think that your list is propably the best of all that has ever been posted here and I like the way it plays out. I just 2-0'd most of my matches in online cockatrice tournaments and I don't think that I would like to play some other build IRL. Anyway, once again mad props for finding that perfect elves list!

[NihilObstat]

My non-Elf cards in the deck are currently 4 Glimpse of Nature, 4 Living Wish, and 4 Green Sun's Zenith.
I haven't lost a match for some time now.

Kicks, you are still playing Living Wish! Interesting.

What are you Wish targets in the side? How's your full sideboard looking like?

Any tournaments you have taken this to?

[Mr. Safety]

Zoo, sure. Punishing fire maverick? I have not found that to be the case.

I agree with this...Punishing/Groves is a fairly slow engine...and Elves is a fairly fast deck. Zoo with all of it's cheap removal (Bolts/Chains/Paths/Grims) is more dangerous to elves than Punishing Fire.

[joemauer]

The best reason to run Natural Order is zoo, but is it worth it?

Zoo will keep killing your creatures one by one with their bucket of removal spells, making it tough to cast NO. Sure you could wait until you are up to five mana and cast a dork and then NO, but that is not easy to do in elves especially against zoo.

Zoo is not very popular right anyway. Maverick, in all it's forms, is the beat down deck of choice at the moment.

[blind]

The best reason to run Natural Order is zoo

No. Punishing Maverick, Loam, Junk, Snapcaster Contrôle, etc... Natural Order + Pro are good in lot of Mus.

[joemauer]

No. Punishing Maverick, Loam, Junk, Snapcaster Contrôle, etc... Natural Order + Pro are good in lot of Mus.

I thought junk ran perish?

[Augustas]

The biggest advantage of the vengevine build is that if they perish you and does not back it up with an extraction for vengevines you still will kill them because of simbiote bounce ability. In one recent match against Aggro Loam I was perished three times during the match and it didn't affect me too much because vengies + wirewood symbiote is really nasty to deal with.

[andrebonotto]

If your meta is actually how you described, I strongly recommend you to run Pamart's list. SB the way he built it is actually unnecessary, you can go with chokes + grips + combo hate and you should be fine. Believe me, it's insane. I did not have an opportunity to play it IRL, but I've already won one online tournament with it and I guess I already made top 8 in the MTGSalvation cockatrice tournament, currently 3-0 with a record of 2-1 against Bloodbraid RUG 2-1, Maverick 2-0, Junk 2-0.

Thank you for your assistance.

Pamart's list looks indeed very solid to me. I tried to build it, but I needed to do little arrangements:

-2 Gaea's Cradle (until I get these two)

+1 Forest
+1 Crop Rotation (to compensate on the Cradle's shortage)


(I'm trying to get the 2x Vengevines and 1x Fauna Shaman that are missing, but I think I can do that in time for the next tournament.)

Based on Pamart's list and your considerations, what do you think of the following sideboard:


3x Scavenging Ooze
1x Caller of the Claw
4x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Krosan Grip
4x Carpet of Flowers


The Carpets would be here in place of Chokes.

I'm also considering to maybe find a SB slot to fit 1x Sylvan Safekeeper. (But what to take out?.) Would not it be worthy to have this extra protection for our creatures?

For this, I'm considering specially Zoo, that still shows up around here, and maybe UR Delver, that is popular, and against which our lands' sacrifice could be compensated by the use of Carpets.

Although I lean toward agreement on the superiority of the NO-Prog package against Zoo and other removal-full match-ups, unfortunately I do not own these cards and do not think I will acquire them soon.


Cheers,

[kicks_422]

Kicks, you are still playing Living Wish! Interesting.

What are you Wish targets in the side? How's your full sideboard looking like?

Any tournaments you have taken this to?

Here's my SB:

1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Heritage Druid
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Krosan Grip
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wasteland
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot

I my Elves list, I can Glimpse you out, hardcast Emrakul or just go all-out aggro. I just love having so many paths to victory without feeling that the deck's watered down.

I know most of you have dropped Living Wish from the discussion for Summoner's Pact and/or GSZ, but it works for me, and to each his own right?

[andrebonotto]

Here's my SB:

1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Heritage Druid
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Krosan Grip
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wasteland
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot

I my Elves list, I can Glimpse you out, hardcast Emrakul or just go all-out aggro. I just love having so many paths to victory without feeling that the deck's watered down.

I know most of you have dropped Living Wish from the discussion for Summoner's Pact and/or GSZ, but it works for me, and to each his own right?

Interesting Wishboard.

And what does your MainDeck look like, in order do smoothly support Living Wish?

[OurSerratedDust]

Would someone mind outlining the RUG Tempo and Stoneblade matchups for me? I've been meaning to pick up Elves w/ Vengevine + Intuition for a while now, but I want to make sure the timing is right.

[joemauer]

Would someone mind outlining the RUG Tempo and Stoneblade matchups for me? I've been meaning to pick up Elves w/ Vengevine + Intuition for a while now, but I want to make sure the timing is right.

Try blind's(a.k.a. Oliver) list a few pages back. It does not use intuition but it is tuned to fight mid range aggro. His deck is fauna/vengevine build.

He gives very good advice with SB strategies for these decks. I will sum it up briefly if you can't find his posts.

With RUG take out Llawanor style elves and add carpet of flowers. Helps fight there mana denial plan.

With stoneblade take out glimpse combo and accessories like regal force and add NO/prog plan and dismembers. I questioned this at first but after lots of testing this does help a lot. Stoneblade's best way to kill you is their few creatures using equipment, dismember sideswipes this plan. NO/prog plan helps you not over extend, and gives a creature that can fight through 8-12 plow effects.

Hope I helped some.

[andrebonotto]

Do you think the Dismembers on the SB could be succesfully replaced by Pithing Needles?

Needles could shut SFM's ability, Equipments and other threats like Lavamancer (or even a Goblin Player's Gempalm Incinerator)...

[joemauer]

Do you think the Dismembers on the SB could be succesfully replaced by Pithing Needles?

Needles could shut SFM's ability, Equipments and other threats like Lavamancer (or even a Goblin Player's Gempalm Incinerator)...

I could see a case being made for pithing needle versus grim Lavamancer, but against goblins you shouldn't need it.

Pithing needle does not seem as strong as dismember against stoneblade. If you shut down stoneforge mystic with it they still get an equipment(probably jitte) to put in play and hook to him.

Stoneblade decks usually have 8-10 creatures right? Stoneforges, snapcasters, and some number of vendillion cliques. If you manage to suppress his creatures with dismembers you can easily out aggro them. Between Fauna Shaman, vengevines, Symbiote+visionary or viridian shaman, and Natural Order/ prog you can give them too many must answer cards. Dismember or Natural Order usually resolve after stoneblade exhausts it's resources, swinging the game into your favor.

[resum]

One thing to note about dismember, is that it's a clean and easy answer to turn 1 delver turn 2 flip, which is the only way I've ever lost to RUG delver decks.

[Koby]

Here's my SB:

1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Heritage Druid
1 Nettle Sentinel
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Krosan Grip
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wasteland
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot

I my Elves list, I can Glimpse you out, hardcast Emrakul or just go all-out aggro. I just love having so many paths to victory without feeling that the deck's watered down.

I know most of you have dropped Living Wish from the discussion for Summoner's Pact and/or GSZ, but it works for me, and to each his own right?

I feel like intrinsically, not playing 4 maindeck Wirewood Symbiote is a mistake. It's the deck's strongest creature by far.