I was thinking of throwing in another Horizon Canopy but I couldn't find it when I got to the tourney site. I notice you guys run the Maze of Ith side. When it comes in do you normally side out a land or a spell?Originally Posted by rukcus
Spell. The only matchup where I board out lands are against decks that either have no legends (RUG Tempo) or have all basics (Burn), in which case I board out Karakas and Wasteland respectively, and never more than 2 in the latter case.
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I was thinking of using 1x mentor of the meek in the main and 1x sb. it can provide draws in midgame (good against attrition) and has synergy with scryb ranger + dryad arbor. on my list I also use three mirran crusader.
what do you think?
// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [ISD] Forest (3)
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [B] Savannah
3 [9E] Plains (3)
// Creatures
3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
4 [FNM] Mother of Runes
4 [DDH] Qasali Pridemage
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
// Spells
2 [4E] Sylvan Library
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [JGC] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 [HOP] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
My reason for running Aether Vial over GSZ started out as I simply owned Vials, and didn't own GSZ or Hierarchs. A friend of mine played this list as a 'combo killer' until GSZ came out, than he switched.
The mana base is quite self explanatory, I may cut 1 Flooded Strand for 1 more Canopy, origonally there were 4 in the deck and I just took too much damage off them.
3 Goyfs because Scavenging Ooze is in there as Goyf 4, mainly just because when I draw him he's good.
3 Teegs because almost every game you want to see him, and he has a massive target on his back.
3 Stoneforges could probably go up to 4, but I really don't know where to make room so I just leave it as is.
Equip package should be pretty self explanatory, Jitte is awesome vs creature decks or burn, Light and Shadow recurs anything they counter or kill, fire and ice shocks and draws cards.
Serra Avenger is the main reason I like this deck over GSZ, she is just such a complete house and wrecks so many people. Not many decks can deal with a Serra Avenger with any equip on it.
Reasons I don't like the cards I listed.
Cradle requires you to have creatures on board to be any good. While this almost is never a problem, there will be times you just have a 0 mana land, and that isn't worth it to me. I also don't need as much mana as GSZ version's due to vials.
Scryb Ranger, again requires a utility creature to be anything more then a 1/1 Flyer. I like cards in my deck to do something, not rely on other cards to be good.
Sword of Body and Mind. This is probably the worst sword in my opinion, you would be much better off running Feast and Famine if you need the pro green, atleast then you can tap out to GSZ and then still have mana to Swords/move equipment/whatever
Thalia, you told me I should be playing death and taxes if this is the type of build I like and I view Thalia as death and taxes bread and butter. Why would you play a card that slows down the engine running your deck? She might be sideboard options, but is not worth running in the main.
I'm sorry, but this list is probaly one of the worst lists I have ever seen.
3 gaddock teegs maindeck? What if you aren't fighting any combo decks? It goes to waste. One scavenging ooze without gsz??
Dryad arbor in MD but no GSZ? So you drop a dryad arbor turn 1 and it does nothing bcause of summoning sickness?
Scryb ranger, the only flyer in the deck, is not useful? In a deck with 4 MOMs, 4 knights of the reliquary, a dryad arbor. and equipment to boot.
4 vials to slow you down?
sorry, but this deck seriously needs tweaking.
I'm sure it can pull out victories just by swarming alone, but its not a good synergistic deck.
Subtle flames are still flames. Removed. I understand your frustration, but keep it civil, please. -zilla
Gaddock Teeg only good against combo? Yeah sure. Lets name cards he shuts down, shall we?
Moat.
Humility.
Jace.
Elspeth.
Wrath of God.
Force of Will.
Green Sun Zenith
Engineered Explosives
Fireblast
Should we keep going?
If a single Dryad Arbor is my only land, chances are I kept a terrible hand and should be punished for not having a turn 1 play. On the other hand, I can fetch it out end of turn. I can vial it in for even more excel after a turn 1 vial, and I like it better then Treetop Village.
4 vials to 'slow me down'? If a vial resolves turn 1, chances are it will do 10x as much for me as your Turn 1 GSZ x = 0 will do for you. Turn 2 Knight? Cool, I have an uncounterable turn 3 any 2 drop in my deck.
Yes, Scryb Ranger is a piece of shit card that relies on other cards to be good, by itself you have a crappy 1/1 flier. Thanks but I'll take my 3/3 Vigilance any day.
Oh and I've mentioned now twice that the single Scav Ooze is in there as a 'oh cool I drew it' thing, simply because it's a cool card.
Challenged? Prove them wrong. Actions speak louder than words anyway - Post good results with your list. Unfortunately with a huge card pool it's tough to find the right cards and obviously people will think that the cards they have found will be the right ones. Naturally, people get defensive when it's implied that their choices are wrong. It's not the Source, it's human nature.
Look at the criticism that Adam Prosak got for his Dredge list (not even on the Source alone, there are many comments on his deck tech at SCG), but he won the whole thing - he must have done something right. And these people can bitch all they want, but in the end, he is the SCG: Cinci Legacy champion. The ball is in your court.
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Please stop posting like this. Vial lists are just as viable, except not as heavily played. You also haven't read the list, or understand the approach.
@ Neuad
I can't provide much feedback on your list, since I last played Death & Taxes about 18 months ago. I'm sure it's consistent, but the problem I've had with D&T was its lack of flexibility in the mid-game. D&T has inevitability due to Mangara, which I feel would be the best approach here. How has the testing with the Mangara engine gone for you? I would also consider playing Canonist maindeck rather than Teeg, as it provides the same taxing on combo decks, while also shutting down Snapcaster decks. Considering that your deck is 80% lands and creatures, Canonist doesn't effect your game plan.
I would also consider having more options in the 1cc and 3cc slots. The deck is heavily squeezed at the 2 drops. Burrenton Forge-Tender, Benevolent Bodyguard, and Sylvan Safekeeper are all good protective options that would fit for this deck.
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All I was trying to do was share a different take on G/W Aggro and a little tournament report of me doing decent, only losing to my play mistake and then going on tilt. I defended my reasons for my card choices, and explained why I feel other cards aren't good enough.
I do wish I could run both GSZ and Vial, as I would like to run more silver bullets, or be able to find my Scav Ooze more often, but I can't and I feel Aether Vial is to broken to not play.
I'm doing my best to prove myself, but my best finish so far is top 20 at SCG Charlotte, losing to Reanimator and Slivers, while beating Hive Mind twice, and a slew of other decks I don't remember.
Never said it wasn't viable. In legacy, every deck can beat every other deck. The power of vial decks lies with the ability to draw cards. Thats how it always was. Goblins and merfolk. Draw and throw out several creatures all on one turn.
of course there are the occasion of vialing in a guy to catch people by surprise either to block or to stop a combo from going off but you get the idea.
Green and white does not offer the power of drawing cards as fast as goblins and merfolk, thats the main problem with a vial based deck in green and white. When you are out of steam, you are out of steam. Then you gotta wait several turns to click the vial to turn 2-3.
Also the power of dryad arbor relies on gsz to power out the turn 3 play on turn 2, but you have vial for that, fine. I'm just saying with vial-based decks you will have dead cards when you draw it past turn 3. On the other hand, I've never been disappointed when drawing a gsz, even as late as turn 10 or 15.
When playing merfolk, I hate drawing vials after turn three especially when I have one already in play.
But at least with merfolk, you have standstills and silvergil to get more cards in your hand.
I think everyone needs to sit back and relax. To each their own. If he likes to play XYZ cards, that's his choice. It's his deck, he can put whatever he wants. He posted his decklist to show you his idea, not to be attacked by other people.
Maybe he plays and knows his deck well enough that it'll win. We shouldn't have to attack anyone for just putting their ideas on this forum. We should encourage it.
Your ideas are alien and wrong, and I hate you.
Happy Valentine's day.. i love you too.
How can you hate someone who doesn't use a jitte with 2 counters to shoot an etched champion.
I'd love to have an opponent like that.
I like to stay at 2 simply to abuse vial to the best of it's ability, I don't like bumping it up to 3 unless I have 2 knight's in my hand, I usually just have a Teeg out and hard cast it.
As far as Canonist in the main goes, I'll be honest I never even thought of that because of how happy I am with Teeg in the main.
Putting more 1 and 3 drops in the deck could be a direction you could take it, but there is no room in the deck for it, I wouldn't even know what to cut.
I get that vial is a dead draw late game, while GSZ isn't and that's really my only problem with the deck. I never really have issues with card draw because of Horizon Canopys, Sylvan Library, Sword of Fire and Ice, or just winning the game early on the back of my opening hand/a few top decks.
D'awwwww make-up sex?
I generally don't board out Wasteland against Burn. While it's true you can't hit their lands with it, assuming you go for basics early and only play duals from your hand or after you have your basics in play, keeping a couple of untapped Wastelands makes PoP pretty useless.
Force of Will isn't a particularly bad card for Maverick to deal with due to its redundancy of threats (at least in my build, I'm not running a lot of useless 1/1s), so really the only ones of these that are commonly played and not cards you want to play yourself are Jace and Wrath out of the board in Blade Control. In which case you should just keep Teeg in th board.
I mean obviously this is going to be a meta dependent selection but I don't think there are too many Humility decks running around. The problem in Blade control is infinite StPs anyway which Teeg doesn't really deal with well.
Yeah I mean I didn't know anyone didn't run the Dryad Arbor.If a single Dryad Arbor is my only land, chances are I kept a terrible hand and should be punished for not having a turn 1 play. On the other hand, I can fetch it out end of turn. I can vial it in for even more excel after a turn 1 vial, and I like it better then Treetop Village.
The problem isn't really getting Knights countered, in my experience, it's getting them StPd, where Vial is less than helpful since it dilutes the gas in your deck.4 vials to 'slow me down'? If a vial resolves turn 1, chances are it will do 10x as much for me as your Turn 1 GSZ x = 0 will do for you. Turn 2 Knight? Cool, I have an uncounterable turn 3 any 2 drop in my deck.
I mean I would agree with this at least, Scryb Ranger is super bad.Yes, Scryb Ranger is a piece of shit card that relies on other cards to be good, by itself you have a crappy 1/1 flier. Thanks but I'll take my 3/3 Vigilance any day.
See I hate seeing things like this.Oh and I've mentioned now twice that the single Scav Ooze is in there as a 'oh cool I drew it' thing, simply because it's a cool card.
People, to win a major tournament you already have to get really lucky. Why are people straining that further by adding one ofs and hoping to draw into them at the right time? Do people really not understand how important consistency is?
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No. Ideas should be attacked. This isn't the game of holding hands and friendship. This is a competitive game, and if we all sit around singing kumbaya and sucking each other's dicks, then a lot of people are going to go to a tournament and lose because their pile of 61 jank isn't the special unique snowflake that everyone on the Source says it was.
It doesn't do anyone any favors to hold off on criticizing an idea because you're afraid of hurting their feelings.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I agree with this and he's not in there to 'draw at the right time', he's in there just because I like drawing it occasionally, and never don't like drawing it.
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