I know, but it just feels terrible having a card that I bring in for ONE matchup MAYBE in game 3. I don't feel comfortable just bringing K-Grip in blind against UW Blade because they "might" be running off-color Leylines considering that 9+ cards already go in against them (1 Phyrexian Revoker, 4 Dark Confidant, 1 Engineered Explosives, 2 Extirpate, 1 Tower of the Magistrate). I feel ok doing it against Storm, where 11 of my 15 sideboard cards are hatepieces, but against UW Blade, I can't find things to take out without seriously hindering the main gameplan. Against Storm, you just want to put them on a clock and stop them from comboing. It's rougher against Blade. Sylvok Replica provides a lot of resilience against more archetypes and is an overall better fit for the deck, except that it's counterable.Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat
Against U/W, have you considered boarding out the enlightened tutors and some bullets? After boarding, between counterspells and surgical extraction, tutor isn't the greatest.
I've done it. I'm not that comfortable with it. For one, if E-Tutor gets the counter-extract treatment, then I'm fine with it, because that means my Loams and Wastes are that much safer. For two, getting those bullets is actually pretty important some of the time (when it doesn't get countered). If a Tutor resolves, I have SOME hate piece that I can at least recur with Ruins barring active Leyline. I run both Revoker and Pithing Needle in the side, and both are very good against Blade. Having the ability to Pithe both Elspeth and Jace if necessary is brutal.
Poor Stoneblade players tend to board out counters against us too. They think along the lines of "Spell Snare? Well, that only counters Loam. That sucks since they'll just recur it." While it's never a good idea to rely on stupidity, you can always be sure it will be there in some form.
What's the purpose of Tower of the Magistrate in your guys' sideboards? Do you feel you need a fifth Maze of Ith against Stoneblade?
Good question...guys?
If they surgically extract maze of ith, you want a second way to not die to batterskull.
More generally, giving a creature protection from artifacts causes equipment to fall off. In the case of Batterskull, the Germ it's equipped to becomes a 0/0 with pro: artifacts, causing Batterskull to call off, leaving an attacking 0/0 that dies to SBEs. They then have to either bounce and recast BSkull or try to equip to a hexproof guy (which most decks with BSkull don't run).
Ice Floe and/or Mystifying Maze seems better.
If they jump the batterskull with elspeth ice floe doesn't work (granted, this isn't too common, so it may warrant some testing), also it doesn't stop clique with an equipment the way tower does. Mystifying maze, however, is just awful.
Tournament Report for SCG Cincinnati:
I went to SCG Cincinnati over the weekend and played Lands, as usual. There were just under 300 people there IIRC (636 for Standard!!!) and we had 9 rounds. The list I ran is very similar to my list from last time at Star City Los Angeles. The only differences were in 2 SB cards and 1 maindeck card. The final list was:
Spells (24)
4x Exploration
4x Life from the Loam
4x Mox Diamond
3x Enlightened Tutor
2x Manabond
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Smokestack
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Zuran Orb
Lands (37)
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
3x Tropical Island
3x Maze of Ith
3x Tolaria West
2x Tranquil Thicket
2x Mishra's Factory
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Academy Ruins
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Sideboard(15)
4x Dark Confidant
2x Extirpate
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sylvok Replica
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Tower of the Magistrate
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Phyrexian Revoker
Round 1: Bernie Wen with Esperblade (5th overall)
Game 1: I sit down, shake hands with Bernie, and proceed to immediately knock the top card of his deck face-up accidentally while we're shuffling. Oops. The game gets started, with me playing Top off a Trop (on the play). Bernie plays a land and passes. I untap, resolve Exploration, and get Loam in the graveyard and fetches back in my hand. He looks rattled. He counters a few of my spells, draws lots of cards, and resolves a Jace, but I've got a solid setup and good support, and I kill the Jace and eventually set up Smokestack with consistent Wasteland recursion, and he scoops at 20 minutes in.
Game 2: I keep a hand with a Bob and a decent start, but he's got Leyline out. I get Inquisitioned and he chooses Sylvok Replica out of EE, Replica, and Loam, then I start setting up as best I can. I resolve a Pithing Needle on Jace after he plays a Jace, but he Snapcasters Disenchant which he used on my Revoker before. It's really rough under Leyline once he has pressure. We play draw-go for quite a few turns - he's got a Geist and a Batterskull, but I've got a Maze and a Factory, and he doesn't want Geist to die. Eventually, he begins to stick Mystics and Snapcasters, and even though I resolve and blow and crack an explosives for 2, my next Bob gets Spell Snared and he's got enough mana to put Batterskull on Geist. I die right before the end of the round, and we draw.
0-0-1 (1-1)
Round 2: Blue Zoo
Game 1: I'm not 100% sure what he's playing, but he has 4 colors and both Delver and Wild Nacatl, so I assume blue Zoo. I go right for an Ensnaring Bridge and manage to stick it. He can't beat it.
Game 2: Turns out he's also running a Vengevine/Faithless Looting package. Cool? I stick Ensnaring Bridge again but it gets Ancient Grudges. I'm not worried. I have Explosives recurring and a couple Mazes. He has next to no burn. I just Waste-Lock his silly four color all-duals mana base and sweep.
1-0-1 (3-1)
Round 3: Cory? with RUG
Game 1: I know this is a good matchup, and I'm pretty sure once I stick E-Bridge it's over. I'm correct, and he scoops.
Game 2: I start well, developing Loam with protection, man-lands, and lots of Wastes and other lands. Then I get Loam extracted. I think I'm ok, as I'm set up well, but then both Tar Pit and Chasm get Snapped and extracted as safety measures and he drops a nimble Mongoose. Crap. He wastes my Factory and beats in. I draw nothing. Eventually I hit an E-Tutor, but it's one turn too late. I resolve Crucible and replay my Factory and a fetch, but I have one blocker, and I'm at one.
Game 3: I keep a pretty crappy hand. Probably should not have kept. It's something like Port, Factory, EE, Chalice, Top, Ensnaring Bridge, and Loam. I play and activate Top on my upkeep - no lands. Crapcrapcrap. I play my second land and reactivate Top. Tolaria West. Gah! Meanwhile, he's gone T1 Delver and flipped it on T2, and he just cast a second. I'm forced to play Tolaria tapped and play Explosives for 0 for the Delvers, then playing Chalice for 1. He looks at his hand and shrugs, then casts a Goyf on his turn and beats in with the Delvers, only one of which has flipped. I draw Bob off the top. I activate Top, digging for a land, but I don't find it, and he wasted my factory, so I can't even crack explosives for 0. Delvers flip and swing. I still have nothing off Top. I draw, activate, see a Trop, draw off Top, play it, crack EE for 0, and scoop, because his goyfs is too big and I won't see land for a few turns.
1-1-1 (4-3)
Round 4: UW Stoneblade
Game 1: He mulls and studies his hand hard before keeping. I let loose with Tropical Island, Top. He's intent on Waste wars, and blows up my Trop. I play a Waste and pass. He plays a Tundra. I waste it. I play a Factory. He Wastes it. I play a Foothills, crack, Exploration, Port, go. He plays Island, go. I draw, cast Loam, get a Factory and another Port, pass the turn, Port his Island. He draws and scoops.
Game 2: I open with a Bob and he clearly boarded out all his removal. He says he didn't know I was Lands even though I had dropped Tar Pit and Tolaria West last game. I get a huge advantage, and even though Snapcaster kills Bob and his Snaps and Factories hold me off for a few turns, There's nothing he can do to stop me from 7ing him almost every turn with Tar Pit and two Factories.
2-1-1 (6-3)
Round 5: Pox
Game 1: I've never physically played this MU out before, but I expect it to be a pretty favorable MU. He Inquisitions and takes Mox Diamond, since all I have is Loam and Diamond. Doesn't matter. I set up quickly, block half his spells, recur faster than he does, and just overall dominate the board. He can't win through Exploration, Crucible, Zuran Orb and scoops.
Game 2: I board in the usual package (on average, I board in 9 cards: 4 Dark Confidant, 2 Extirpate, 1 Engineered Explosives, 2 other MU-specific cards) and expect it to be more of the same. Cursed Scroll is more of a problem this game, and he Hymns away a Bob black source for a few turns, but I get the Orb/Exploration/Crucible lock again. He plays Deed (I think he splashed post board) for 1 and takes out my Exploration, but I recur Orb and topdeck 3 separate Explorations off the top in a row. Sorry.
3-1-1 (8-3)
Round 6: Rama with Junk
Game 1: I see a Force sitting on top of his board, and I assume he's playing Bant (which deck's manabase is so awkward it can't support Force and has to board them? Bant!). He pays a Dryad Arbor and starts Waste warring with me, but eventually I get a good start and he plays a Mox Diamond, tossing a Marsh Flats. Ok, Junk. He basically does nothing and ends up going down to just a Mox when I pass a countered up Smokestack his way.
Game 2: Played out similarly to the first, but with pressure. I had a Bob, but Bob died after a few turns, and Qasali started punching for 3 a turn. I couldn't find a Maze, and had to start Chasming. Blah. He set down a Terravore, Qasali'd my Exploration, and passed. I dredged, set down a Maze, and passed. He played a second Terravore, now an 8/8, and passed. I was forced to detonate Explosives for 3 so as to not die, and I still had to take a big hit from one. No matter, though, because Smokestack ticked up to 3 and killed him just like last game. Turns out the sideboarded Force was to make people think he was Bant. Lol.
4-1-1 (10-3)
Round 7: Andrew Morrow with Bant (2nd overall)
Game 1: He mulls twice, hard. I open with Exploration, Trop, and Port, hiding the Waste in my hand hoping he'll play into it. He plays a Tundra and passes. I Waste it and drop Ruins and Top. He plays Island, go, then realizes what he's doing and scoops.
Game 2: I board in the package for Stoneblade because that's all I saw (besides 1 Misty Rainforest), but he turns out to be Bant. The packages are similar, but not exact. And he got a good start with Hierarch, Forest, go. I play Top and pass. He plays a Tropical Island and a Knight of the Reliquary and passes. I draw into an Exploration, play Trop, play Factory, play Loam, resolve Loam, pass. He draws into and slams a Jace down, then swings. I chump with Factory. On my turn, I Dredge Loam and get back Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, Factory. I play Tabernacle and Chasm and pass. He fateseals, goes Knight -> Wasteland to waste my Maze, and passes. I choose to not sacrifice Chasm and go about rebuilding my position, dropping a Tar Pit and sacrificed Factory into play. I pass. He Knights into Bojuka Bog and nukes my yard. I'm ok, but I can now no longer recur Chasm for any more turns, because it's at 2 and I'm at 6. I sac Chasm, draw, Top, dig for Loam, fail, hit Jace with Tar Pit, and pass. He plays Stoneforge into Batterskull, goes Knight -> Waste -> Tar Pit, fateseals, and passes. I continue failing to find Loam, though I do find an Enlightened Tutor. He sets up Pithing Needle and Bob to get countered. He plays Clique and passes. I fail to find Loam again, and even though I can Tutor for Crucible to start Chasming, Jace is at 12, and I lose the Jace war and the defense war.
Game 3: This one is a little hard to remember, but it was like a slightly faster version of Game 2 - double Hierarch gave him huge advantage over the mana denial and Knight wasting the two Mazes I drew cleared its path. Pithing Needle on Jace stuck, but that's about it.
4-2-1 (11-5)
Round 8: Spencer Ferreber with Loam Pox
Game 1: I keep the awkwardness of 2 Trop, 2 Tolaria, 2 Loam, 1 Exploration, and I draw into Manabond on the first play. Because he went Entomb -> Nether Spirit turn one main phase, I'm assuming Pox, which means light pressure. He wastes my Trop and Passes. I draw a Tranquil Thicket and play it. He Sinkholes my Trop. I draw Tar Pit and play it. He draws, plays Liliana, makes us discard, and passes. I dredge, set up a dominant position in about three turns, and proceed to lock him out with Stack. I don't see a single Loam on his end.
Game 2: I immediately realize how awkward this MU is when I bring in Bob. He boarded out removal, but Cursed Scroll and Liliana kill him really fast... especially under his opening Leyline of the Void. I start to lose advantage once he gets Cursed Scroll activate, especially with 3 dead Loams in my hand. He Loams and Wastes me into exile and I scoop.
Game 3: I start out even stronger, but he's got TWO Leylines on the field (not that it matters - I blow both up or neither with EE) and is crushing me with Liliana and Scroll again. I can't play Bob because Liliana and Scroll kill him, and I can't play Revoker on either because then whichever it doesn't name kills him. I play Pithing Needle, but it only answers one, and his Deeds and Pulses cripple me hard. I blow up the Leylines, but I'm pretty far behind. He topdecks another one anyway and plays it, then topdecks yet another and Cursed Scrolls me with it until the time limit, at which point I scoop him in. A tie is as bad as a loss now anyway.
Round 9: RUG
Games 1-2: My opponent comes up to me, asks me what I'm playing. I ask him, why should I tell you? He said, "if your deck would beat mine, I'll scoop." I said, I'm playing Lands." He said, "Oh. I'm playing RUG. I scoop."
So that was my tournament. A little disappointing placewise, but I did pretty much the same as last time and played a lot better people in a field with a lot more people, so I'm not unhappy. I loved that I played a different deck every time, especially after the Stoneblade marathon of last Open.
Cards I loved:
1. The fifth fetch. I made a split second last-minute decision to swap out Cabal Pit for the second Verdant Catacombs, and found again just how much a fetch smooths out this deck's play. I didn't really miss Cabal Pit in the slightest.
2. Pithing Needle. I can't believe I never had one before. I really like having two, and Phyrexian Revoker is always useful.
3. Smokestack. I always forget how good it is. It always works - either it draws out a counter or a Qasali sacrifice for being big and scary or it wins the game.
Cards I didn't love: None
Everything pretty much proved its worth this time. I think I've got a very solid list for the current meta. It covers a LOT of angles. I didn't ever actually get to fire Sylvok Replica today, but I had him eat a Cliqueing and do a little blocking, and he scared people. I like his tutorability and recursion with Ruins; I don't miss Grip. I don't miss Cabal Pit either; it was only situationally good, usually in situations where it was useful but win-more.
Interestingly enough, I saw a guy playing foiled-out Intuition Lands with no Mindslaver and the O-Stone plan maindboard. He got 22nd. I didn't have a chance to talk to him.
Anyway, I was pretty happy with how I played and was totally stoked to play a ton of different decks and some great games. I'm looking forward to GP Indy and some other Opens, where I think I can T8. If you guys have any questions just ask.
Malacoda-Nice work, and cool list! The only card I disagree with is bojuka bog, but if it works, it works. I'm also gonna try out the replica, that's some great tech.
On a sidenote, here's the list I've been testing with. It has a far easier time against scavenging ooze, but swords to plowshares becomes relevant, although not backbreaking if you see a loam/intuition/more than 1 creature. Thoughts/comments are appreciated!
4 Dark Confidant
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Eternal Witness
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
4 Intuition
4 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Maze of Ith
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Tolaria West
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Academy Ruins
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Karakas
1 Forest
Sideboard
1 Tormods' Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Circe of Protection:Red
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
Things that may seem strange:
Creatures- To shut this build of the deck down, your opponent needs creature removal and yard hate. This makes boarding for the opponent hard, as the default plan against lands is -creature hate, +yard hate.
Ravens Crime-This is great at protecting the creatures game 1. You can shred the opponent's hand and drop a knight and lock the game up quickly.
Intuition-With the creatures, stronghold, and raven's crime, you can make some sick piles. It's a bit clunky, but getting 3 knights with a stronghold active is sick.
2 Horizon Canopy-1 is just a flex slot, might be better as another dual or as a tranquil thicket.
No Manabond-It's a card that gets boarded out for every single game 2, and with the advent of scavenging ooze, going all in on a discarded loam gets far riskier game 1.
No Tranquil Thicket-A card that is good with manabond and postboard against yard hate, but there are no manabonds in this deck and loam isn't as important to this build, so it doesn't make the cut. Could definitely take the slot of one canopy though.
No glacial chasm MD-I can't recall the last time I played this card or drew it and was happy about the situation I was in. In the opener, it's horrible, without manabond or 2 explorations you're just delaying the inevitable, and relying on it against wasteland aggro gives them more topdecks that blow you out, and it implies that you played poorly at some point to back yourself into such a corner. It's a fine board card against burn, belcher, and wasteless aggro though.
You don't like MD Bog? Really? Every single deck I played against used its graveyard:
RUG (2) - Snapcaster
Bant - Snapcaster, Knight of the Reliquary
UW and Esper Blade - Snapcaster
Blue Zoo - Snapcaster and Faithless Looting
Pox and Loam Pox - Nether Spirit, Loam, Crucible, etc, etc, etc.
Junk - Knight of the Reliquary, occasional Loams
It didn't outright nuke anything the way it would against Dredge/Reanimator, but it was great to have.
I like your list. I was working on something very similiar during the Misstep era as a way to fight it, and mine currently exists as a kind of sloppy Bant/Lands hybrid that runs a set of MD Spell Pierce. I like most of your choices. Raven's Crime is awesome, and running Stronghold with creatures makes Intuition crazy powerful, though I still think that it's not where we want to be right now. A lack of Glacial Chasm and Manabond makes a lot of sense in your list as well. However, I do like Tranquil Thicket/Top still, simply because you can save Loam from Surgical in theory (in practice, I rarely had the Thicket to save Loam, so maybe it's not that realistic. I think I've done like 3 times in tournament play).
I am a huge fan of Horizon Canopy, but I'm not sure if I'd run 2 considering you have the MD Bobs to account for.
Let me know how it goes, glad you liked the report :)
P.S. Eternal Witness = <3
Unfortunately this is incorrect, they run Geist of Saint Traft. I have played Lands and Aggro Loam for a few years now exclusively, and I have yet to encounter something more annoying or aggravating than Geist or his hexproof ilk... it's inconspicuous, but deadly. :(
Malacoda: you said you board in 9 cards on average. What do you generally board out, out of curiosity? I'm just starting to get into the deck, so any help on that would be awesome. I'm looking more at an Intuition build, for what that's worth.
It's pretty matchup dependent, but in almost every matchup, I board out the following:
2 Manabond
1 Exploration
1 Karakas
In any MU with Snapcaster, I can take out 1 Life From the Loam to both decrease the likelihood and effectiveness of Surgical -> Loam. After that, I usually take out the MU-specific lands like Bojuka Bog if I can and I often take out a Factory and a Maze of Ith depending on how aggressively they'll be playing. From then on, if I have to, I break sets. Usually just a Mox Diamond and a fetch. Taking out more than those cards can make the deck too inefficient.
And yes, Geist is quite obnoxious. We can't do ANYTHING about Geist with a Batterskull unless we can continually throw Factories in front of it and can Maze the token. At least Factories stop them from swinging with it if they don't have StP. It's why I went up one a few weeks ago. Plus, running Sylvok Replica in the board gives me something to eat Batterskulls and block Geists.
Bog's ok, but I just don't like sorcery speed graveyard hate too much. I like it in knight decks though. Top would probably be ok in my list, although if you have intuition they get a bit clunky together. On intuition, I don't think that normal lands with manabond wants it as it creates akwardness, but in my style of deck it's just another must-counter, much like almost every other card in the deck. I was considering cutting the second canopy for the second bayou because without urborg, crime is a bit awkward to flashback off of one non-diamond black source.
That feels right to me. Running Urborg itself might honestly even be appropriate. Having an online Stronghold seems like the first step on the way to winning.
Yup. I was running 1 Top/1 Intuition for a while before I switched out of Intuition entirely for a second Top; they've got better synergy and I was milling the one Intuition most of the time anyway since it was a singleton.
The only thing about your post I'm confused about:
when your list runs 3 KOTR.Bog's ok, but I just don't like sorcery speed graveyard hate too much. I like it in knight decks though.
Well done Malacoda!!!
My questions are simple:
1-Why did you choose lands for playing in cincinati??
2- How do you deal with snapcaster ----> double surgical??
3- Is E. Tutor significatively better than intuition that can seach for lands??
Thx in advance....
not to speak for him, but in regards to 3, the disadvantage seems much more that you can't E.Tutor for Loam, whereas you can with Intuition. That's the only thing that I've really missed about switching from Intuition to E.Tutor anyway - Tolaria West does a find job tutoring for lands. Because of this though, I've found myself on the Crucible plan more often than I did running Intuition.
Ive got a bog in the board because i run knight, im just not sure if its a good option for a knightless build
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