[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Stoyrm]

TBH, i like not having any 2 costs in the deck. Nothing gets hit by Spell Snare. This is the reason i'm now playing Thoughtseize instead of Hymn. Also, Hymn puts more pressure on your mana, while not playing them leaves you open to play more exploring (no veterans here) options when it comes to splashes.

[groupcelebration]

I played the G/B version of this deck at a small tournament today. I tried Dungrove Elder in the main deck and I wasn't disappointed. He reached 8 power a few times during the tournament, just in the normal course of my deck doing its thing. He might be better in the sideboard as a GSZ target against aggro and control decks, but he's certainly a beating.

I usually play zoo, but there's something about dropping a Grave Titan in Legacy that I absolutely love!

[enemyofarsenic]

I usually play zoo, but there's something about dropping a Grave Titan in Legacy that I absolutely love!

Amen.

[muscleb]

Having played with Nic Fit for some time now, in my experience playing 3 colors is not really working well. With 3 colors you have to fetch duals if you want to be sure you can cast your spells, which means that you just get wrecked by wastelands really easy.

The advantages of a stable manabase when you are trying to resolve 6 drops in legacy, is not to be underestimated.

Playing two colors also lets you drop the second most awesome bomb in the game: Big Garruk(Grave Titan is numero uno).

[moseby]

groupcelebration

What did you drop for the dungrove? I have contemplated running 1 and done some testing with it. I like Deranged Hermit but paying 10 mana just to end up with 4 1/1 squirrel tokens kind of blows. Also did you alter your mana base? I was thinking of switching it to 5/2 to more easily grow the elder, and possible running a 2nd in the board?

[groupcelebration]

groupcelebration

What did you drop for the dungrove? I have contemplated running 1 and done some testing with it. I like Deranged Hermit but paying 10 mana just to end up with 4 1/1 squirrel tokens kind of blows. Also did you alter your mana base? I was thinking of switching it to 5/2 to more easily grow the elder, and possible running a 2nd in the board?

I'm not playing Deranged Hermit. I don't understand what match-up he's supposed to be good in. He seems like a hail mary that is really easy for a lot of decks to keep under control. Aggro decks dismember or burn him. And blue decks all pack snapcaster plus a million one white mana exile spells.

I guess if you're playing Recurring Nightmare he's probably nuts, but I'm not.

Also for reference I couldn't find any Eternal Witnesses, so I actually run 3 Dungrove Main. I wouldn't advise it, as it was kind of overkill and I'd rather have at least one Witness to GSZ for. But having 1-2 between the main deck and sideboard is probably where I'm going to end up.

My mana base is

4 verdant catacombs
4 wooded foothills
8 forests
2 swamps
3 bayous
1 phyrexian tower
1 dryad arbor

In reality this should be -1 Forest, +1 Bayou. But I just really like playing with basics and I only got mana screwed once. And it was a hand I should have mulliganed anyway.

(I edited this because I forgot the Dryad Arbor)

[groupcelebration]

Having played with Nic Fit for some time now, in my experience playing 3 colors is not really working well. With 3 colors you have to fetch duals if you want to be sure you can cast your spells, which means that you just get wrecked by wastelands really easy.

The advantages of a stable manabase when you are trying to resolve 6 drops in legacy, is not to be underestimated.

Playing two colors also lets you drop the second most awesome bomb in the game: Big Garruk(Grave Titan is numero uno).

I totally agree with your first statement. More so than other decks we need to protect our mana early. It's also important to not walk Veteran Explorer into Swords to Plowshares.

I'm a little torn on Big Garruk though. I think it helps in matches that we're already good at. I think Liliana helps in almost all of our matches. What's your take on him? Do you play him and Liliana?

[sap]

so after getting my deranged hermit stifled the other day i got sick of it, it is pretty awsome with recurring nightmare but usually when i can do that play im already winning anyway so..

so im looking for a 5CC replacement, on my WGB build, there are probably more but these creatures seemed nice:
deity of scars
spiritmonger
kodama of the north tree
thornling
nath of the gilt-leaf
mitotic slime

mitotic slime is actually what seems to be the best deranged hermit replacement, allows the same fun stuff with recurring nightmare without the the echo cost.

opinions?

[groupcelebration]

so after getting my deranged hermit stifled the other day i got sick of it, it is pretty awsome with recurring nightmare but usually when i can do that play im already winning anyway so..

so im looking for a 5CC replacement

Is there a reason it needs to be 5 mana? Because honestly adding another Scavenging Ooze (I hope you're playing at least one!) to your deck will probably improve more matchups then adding a 5 mana creature that does nothing if it gets exiled.

There's also Acidic Slime as a solid option at 5. And if you're running Recurring Nightmare you could use him to mess with your opponents mana.

[from Cairo]

what seems to be the best deranged hermit... opinions?

I'd been running Master of the Wild Hunt as my token generating mid-range Green Sun's Zenith-able target. It has some cool synergies with Garruk Relentless - notably providing the fight effect when you have Deathtouch wolves out, but it also gets Lightning Bolted/Plowed like a champ providing no tokens. I won some games with it, and it gets boarded out for being kind of clunky at times. I don't know. The Deranged Hermit-esque (GSZ-able Titan) slot seems pretty tough to pin down, since there isn't anything that does quite what we want.

I think Deranged Hermit, Ghave, Guru of Spores and Master of the Wild Hunt are probably the 3 that are closest to the target and each have perks over one another.

Hermit can be dirty with Recurring Nightmare, still puts 4 power on the board even if STP'd/Bolted and I think in a vacuum might be the most powerful. Ghave can have some neat interactions with any of the 'Spike' creatures from Tempest Block - Spike Feeder/Spike Weaver or Kitchen Finks. Master of the Wild Hunt works well with other Wolf/Werewolf type cards - IE in the GBr Punishing Fire builds one can run it along side Huntmaster of the Fells and/or the Innistrad Garruk mentioned above.

I don't think any of them are perfect, which is part of peoples' issues with Green Sun's Zenith in general, but in these builds it probably makes sense to pick one that best fits the build and accept it's not perfect.

[TheArchitect]

I have been testing Primeval Titan with 2 treetop villages in the Deranged hermit slot. If he sticks around, he is a brings 12 power with trampler and wins the game, if he doesn't you still have 6 power with trample. When I draw into treetop villages they are kinda nice too. This is a G/B build mind you, so my manabase is stable enough the villages dont hurt it.

Overall, I have liked prime titan MUCH better than hermit druid. Kind of funny too, if prime titan stays around for a couple turns I usually get all 22 lands out of my deck.

I dont play the red spash, but huntsmaster is really good.

[hyperchord24]

I think Grave Titan is better than Deranged Hermit, but one mana is a big deal. Is 5 cc because of birthing pod?

Here's my two cents:
Archon of Justice
Reveillark
Grave-Shell Scarab
Baneslayer Angel
Garruk, Primal Hunter

[Koplinchen]

I am trying red version now and punishing fire is really great. We should beat creature and control decks now. Not like before - that we SHOULD beat them but... It boost liliana significantly, discarding the red spell (we are not forced to hellbent anymore and it kills flash creatures)
Huntmaster of the Fells is fantastic - with punishing fire you can flip him over and over. So much value. I run him instead of hermit and elder. I think its the way to go.

[sap]

Is there a reason it needs to be 5 mana? Because honestly adding another Scavenging Ooze (I hope you're playing at least one!) to your deck will probably improve more matchups then adding a 5 mana creature that does nothing if it gets exiled.

thanks for the help.
yes im playing one ooze MD, i used to run two but gave up on it because it seemed a creature that required such a commitment but tbh i was running birthing pod back then which make it a bit worse.

I'd been running Master of the Wild Hunt as my token generating mid-range Green Sun's Zenith-able target. It has some cool synergies with Garruk Relentless (...)

thanks for the reply.
i am running one Garruk Relentless but never tried Master of the Wild Hunt, i might try it tho that seems a sweet plan.

I think Grave Titan is better than Deranged Hermit, but one mana is a big deal. Is 5 cc because of birthing pod?

Here's my two cents:
Archon of Justice
Reveillark
Grave-Shell Scarab
Baneslayer Angel
Garruk, Primal Hunter

thanks for the reply.
yes its because of birthing pod. i havent give up on that card yet, i run 2 GBw versions with and without birthing pod. i just think it is so powerful against UW stoneblade but its (almost) crap against anything else. but with birthing pod i run about 19 creatures and i try to get a nice curse from 2cc to 6cc thats why i was trying to find a replacement for deranged hermit. theres also gigapede hmm..

I am trying red version now and punishing fire is really great. We should beat creature and control decks now. Not like before - that we SHOULD beat them but... It boost liliana significantly, discarding the red spell (we are not forced to hellbent anymore and it kills flash creatures)
Huntmaster of the Fells is fantastic - with punishing fire you can flip him over and over. So much value. I run him instead of hermit and elder. I think its the way to go.

havent tried GBr yet because lately i have been having a easier time against UW stoneblade (this is one matchup where i love birthing pod) and im scared that without white burn (which is hard already) will be almost impossible.

how do you deal with burn without leyline of sanctity circle of protection: red?
also how good is huntmaster of the fells? he looks nice with punishing fire like you said but if he gets removed its just a 4 power for 4, wouldnt rushing thrun, the last troll just be better? what im saying is, is it worth it to run 1 huntmaster 1 troll instead of just 2 trolls?

[Philipp2293]

I've been recently handed a ultra streamlined list by the pioneer of punishing fire Nic Fit with the full set of Huntmasters, cutting down on utility and Zeniths.

So far it has been pretty strong. Huntmaster adds so much more value then he does on first glance. Since this deck can play really reactive it's not problematic to flip him, and flipping him back is rarely an issue. If I can get 2 more Huntmasters till wednesday I might follow up with a tournament report.

[TheArchitect]

Raping their hand with Therapys and Hymns slows burn down alot, and then I have a Tree of redemption sided at the moment. I haven't actually needed to use it yet, so it might completely suck, but on paper, Tree of redemption seems like it should be very good against burn when they are in topdeck mode, it should buy you ~5 turns and in that time you could find a sac outlet and ewit to recur it.

If there is a better option out there for non-white lists I would be interested to hear them too. I just threw the tree in there last week and havent even gotten to use him yet, so if anyone has how has it worked out?

[CorpT]

I've been recently handed a ultra streamlined list by the pioneer of punishing fire Nic Fit with the full set of Huntmasters, cutting down on utility and Zeniths.

So far it has been pretty strong. Huntmaster adds so much more value then he does on first glance. Since this deck can play really reactive it's not problematic to flip him, and flipping him back is rarely an issue. If I can get 2 more Huntmasters till wednesday I might follow up with a tournament report.

Can you post a list?

[Chikenbok]

I'm surprised that more people aren't attempting to stick more targeted hand disruption into the deck, I feel like t1 duress, t2 cabal therapy - veteran explorer, sac -> flashback is a mildly nutty play.. 4 land turn 2, turn 3 drop a lili and something else fun?

The lists I've been testing have been much less reliant on creatures and attempt to hit the mid game with a dominating board position (usually one/two plainswalkers on the board with a deed to make sure things don't get out of hand)

Here's what I've been toying around with:


3 Pernicious Deed
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Veteran Explorer
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Sun Titan
1 Dryad Arbor

2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Skeletal Scrying
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dismember

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Treetop Village
1 Phyrexian Tower

[conboy31]

I've been trying out red for Huntmaster of the Fells and Punishing Fire. Liliana has been amazing with Punishing Fire. It is such an easy card to discard that gets free value once they gain life or we get a grove. Also, it makes Liliana's edicts better by clearing x/2s, I am pretty sure the red version wants 3 copies of her compared to the 2ish of BGw. Does anyone have a good manabase for the punishing red version? I have been toying with the numbers and am not yet satisfied.

[groupcelebration]

I'm surprised that more people aren't attempting to stick more targeted hand disruption into the deck, I feel like t1 duress, t2 cabal therapy - veteran explorer, sac -> flashback is a mildly nutty play.. 4 land turn 2, turn 3 drop a lili and something else fun?

I think Inquisition Of Kozilek is a fine replacement for Hymn if you're worried about making BB in your first two turns.

But do you ever struggle with your mana base? Only 20 lands seems low in a deck that wants to hit 4-6 mana. There will be plenty of games where we can't get explorer active right away and if you run into a wasteland you'll be so far behind.