Hey guys so I have my monthly legacy event coming up this Sunday. This is my current list. Thoughts?
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
2 Preordain
1 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Karakas
3 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Spell Pierce
3 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wrath of God
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Vendilion Clique
Thoughts?
I've been killed by my own Dark Confidant where my opponent didn't do a single point of damage to me. I remember two Force of Will reveals and a Jace, the Mind Sculptor or two followed by two mana drop spell. Ugh. I'll take snapcaster for instant value.Originally Posted by Samara
I did really well at a local tournament yesterday. For the most part, I didn't miss the Cliques MD. I'm not sure if Spell Pierce is right for those two open slots, but it got there enough.
I'm also not sold on SoFI (or any third equipment for that matter) in the SB. I can rarely side out SoFF and even against control and non-green decks, it's debatable whether SoFI is better enough to take up a SB slot.
I'm also still up in the air about adding a one-of Volcanic/Trop/Underground. I ran straight UW and the only time I wanted to EE for more than cmc1 was when I wanted to hit cmc4 for Jace. Hitting cmc3 can still be useful in theory, but I'm just not sure it's worth the inconsistency. Perhaps in place of the 4th Mishra's? Putting my colorless down to 6 lands, while adding the slight splash at the same time. Mishra's Factory is just so good on the defense, especially against Mongoose. On the other hand, I lost one match due to a mull to 5 in game 1. It happens... but double Factory the first hand and one Plains the second hand would be quite a bit more unlikely with only three Mishra's.
Also, right now I'm running 1 EE MD and 1 in the SB, although with 1 Wrath in the SB. How necessary does everyone think that 2nd Wrath in the board is? I do have the EE... but then again, a reset button VS Maverick is always welcome.
Despite the obvious Swarm Aggro MU, that 2nd Wrath is a crucial means to fight Thruns. I'd never go below 2.
Cutting those Cliques might be feasible if your meta lacks Combo & Control otherwise keeping them in is a good idea.
Sword of Body and Mind seems pretty good against Thrun.
SoFF can handle Thrun just fine. Batterskull can out-race him, as can Geist (if the field is otherwise clear).
I like Jitte in theory, but with Geists I've found it to be too difficult to get started.
I don't think of the Pro:blue of SoFI as very relevant against opposing Jaces. Why? A couple of reasons:
1. The only decks running Jace are control decks, who typically aren't also running burn (except for the mirror with the red splash, and that's only 2-3 spells) or a lot of creatures. Being able to untap and force them to discard are more useful, IMO. Maybe Thopters is an exception here... I haven't faced that deck yet.
2. Most of our creatures have benefits when they come into play (not to mention flash), so having them bounced could actually be an advantage to you, and it reduces Jace's loyalty.
If Jace is bouncing our creatures, it's generally in desperation while the opponent is hoping to topdeck another Swords or Snapcaster. If anyone's Jace is bouncing our creatures, it might just be our own.
Horrible argument. What's the odds?
If you don't wanna run confidant, at least say something consistent about it
A example would be: "he will probabily be bolted/plowed EOT" (That's why people might not want to run confidant)
Bob is still a 2 CMC card that gives you 2 cards a turn, a creature that alone gives the opponent the felling that he is losing the game.
Snapcaster gives instant value. That's great, I run both. And 2 Unearth.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquistion of Kozilek
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Unearth
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
The only observation is the 4 IofK instead of a 2-2 Split. I'm still considering it, Running 4 IofK have some merits, I can Snapback without taking life (again). Probabily when this "bolt+delver" decks stop seeing so much play, I will go for a 2-2 with toughtsieze;
You previously said "he doesn't kill you... never" and raptorcardz offered am anecdote of one time where Bob killed him. Seems like a sound rebuttal to me. He didn't say he often kills you, but you did emphatically say that he never kills you...Horrible argument. What's the odds?
If you don't wanna run confidant, at least say something consistent about it
A example would be: "he will probabily be bolted/plowed EOT" (That's why people might not want to run confidant)
Bob is still a 2 CMC card that gives you 2 cards a turn, a creature that alone gives the opponent the felling that he is losing the game.
Snapcaster gives instant value. That's great, I run both. And 2 Unearth.
Seems like with 4 planeswalkers, 3-4 FoW, a Batterskull and 2-3 3 drops, plus our early game vulnerabilities, you'd want some Tops to help avoid any sticky situations.
IMO, 4 Ponder is 4 too many. You don't have a Goyf to feed.
I can see this deck work in a super control-heavy field.
Against most aggro strategies this list looks like it will simply roll over and die though.
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EDIT:
Here's a Confidant-friendly version of the top of my head:
> 4 Snapcaster Mage
> 4 Dark Confidant
> 4 Stoneforge Mystic
> 3 Vendilion Clique
> 4 Brainstorm
> 4 Swords To Plowshares
> 2 Ghastly Demise
> 1 Path to Exile
> 4 Spell Snare
> 2 Vindicate
> 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
> 1 Umezawa's Jitte
> 1 Basilisk Collar
> 38 <
> 4 Chrome Mox
> 4 Flooded Strand
> 2 Polluted Delta
> 1 Marsh Flats
> 3 Tundra
> 3 Underground Sea
> 1 Island
> 1 Plains
> 1 Swamp
> 3 Wasteland
> 23<
SB:
> 1 Enlightened Tutor (mini toolbox)
> 1 Tormod's Crypt
> 2 Engineered Plague
> 1 Ethersworn Canonist
> 1 Seal of Cleansing
> 4 Force of Will
> 1 Disenchant
> 3 Extirpate
> 1 Path to Exile
Last edited by klaus; 03-06-2012 at 10:31 AM.
Running 4 Ponder, makes my blue count right, makes top needless, makes the deck as a whole more consistent, helps me to find the "only 2" jaces in control matches, helps me find the "only 4+SCM" removals against aggro. (same about discart or everything)
Think is this way: When you have a top in board, you would activate it every turn? Then you want to ponder every turn.
And, I said Confidant + 4 brainstorm + 4 ponder never kills you (while still arguable that you have 0,1% of chance of being killed by your own bob). Not confidant alone.
Hey what's the general opinion of saving grasp? Seems like a good card in a deck with stoneforge, snapcaster and vendilion clique. I've been looking for a good way to protect the stoneforge mystic since mm got banned. Is this card worth 2 or so slots?
I don't think so.
Curfew seems much better while also buying tempo against your opponent.
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Doesn't Spell Pierce do this much better? Or Rebuff the Wicked?
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Hm, after you flip double force plus jace to your bob, you just resolve jace and jacestorm each turn putting a land back, so I can't see you dying ever after flipping double force plus jace ?!
Maybe (assuming you get the Jace out), but you've still lost 14 life on your own. Still seems like a bad beat.
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