Here is my latest inception of the deck.
Azoruis Stoneblade.
1 x Batterskull
1 x Sword of Feast and Famine
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
4 x Brainstorm
2 x Counterspell
4 x Force of Will
3 x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 x Snapcaster Mage
2 x Spell Pierce
3 x Spell Snare
2 x Vendilion Clique
2 x Geist of Saint Traft
2 x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Swords to Plowshares
3 x Island
2 x Plains
3 x Tundra
3 x Flooded Strand
2 x Scalding Tarn
2 x Misty Rainforest
1 x Karakas
2 x Mishra's Factory
1 x Riptide Laboratory
3 x Wasteland
Sideboard
1 x Umezawa's Jitte
3 x Surgical Extraction
2 x Flusterstorm
2 x Meddling Mage
2 x Disenchant
1 x Oblivion Ring
2 x Path to Exile
2 x Wrath of God
Comments and suggestion welcome; but this has been testing very well.
I don't like the Spell Pierces that card does not belong in control decks' MDs imo.Originally Posted by SupREME-10
I'd like to see 2 Ponders in those slots.
22 seems like you're missing one land, especially if 7 of your lands are non blue.
Oblivion Ring is a MD card (Swiss army knife) - the SB should be reserved for specific hate. S.EXtraction #4 would be my personal choice.
Apropos to the previous discussion, under what circumstances do you side out your SoFI for the Jitte?
I'm totally fine with 2 equips. If you really must play 3, one of em should be a jitte. The reduced mana cost of jitte can be the difference sometimes.
Vs super fast decks like U/R Delver I have actually sided out the Batterskull for the Jitte. OK I am weird; but here is my reasoning (at the time).
I figured if turn 2+ I use a Stoneforge to get Batterskull in hand, the opponent will simply smoke the Stoneforge and I can't cast the bloody Skull. Thus I go get the Jitte as it casts dirt cheap, and equipe to anything at all that sticks (even a man land) and start adding life, or +2/+2, or -1/-1 as needed.
The SoF&I is actually a seriously good card, and I often see it having more use than the SoF&F has for me. If I am not playing vs Goyf's, Knights, etc I generally don't need the land untap that much, and my card advantage is certain while potentially having an opponent discard is not always a disadvantage to them. So the Jitte comes in for SoF&F more often than for SoF&I.
Now you may all go ahead and start the bashings for me playing things a little outside of the box.
Thanks for the comments above, as you are right about the deck needing 23 lands and an O-ring MB.... I fixed those now, although I am not so impressed by Ponder that I would use it to displace a Spell Snare; thus I simply dropped the 2x Spell Pierce.
Here is my build, could you guys give me a hand?
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will (thinking about move one to sb)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquistion of Kozilek
3 Jace, TMS
2 Spell Snare
2 Ponder
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
-------------------
23 Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Moorland Haunt (test it, I beg you)
1 Island
1 Plains
------------
The problem is that bob and stoneforger often dies before they can give me card advantage or lay batterskull... still I think is correct to run both, otherwise the stoneforge would ALWAYS die... so I'm used to use one as bait, so I can proced with the another as my game plan... IofK helps me make this decision.
Its more like "if you have to run 4 creatures that MUST die, then run 8".
I added the moorland haunt only recently but already won some games only because of it... with jitte the opponent generaly would like to kill all my creatures, but with moorland that becomes impossible. (of course i'm talking about "bolt" when i say "kill")
Still, the build sometimes give me the impression that it could hit more, I find myself in control of the game but unable to finish quickly enought. Maybe adding geists would help.
I'm against the use of cliques, I had then, but always ended up trading then for one more turn against a goyf or reliquary... I realy hated pay 3 mana to lay a creature that can't be traded for a goyf if needed.
So... what you guys think? o.o... may someone give me a light?
I realy think geist can be awsome but don't know what to take off...
Last edited by Samara; 02-25-2012 at 12:33 PM.
Ah! Forgot to ask... what you guys think of tidehollow sculler? Is only 2 mana, and he knows how to hold a sword or jitte... o.o
With Bob in the deck and 5 cards at 5cc and 3 cards at 4 cc I would play at least 2 maybe 3 Sensei's Divining Top to avoid being killed by your own Confidant and, even without Bob, they just make the deck run a lot better.
I'd start by cutting the 2 Ponder for them, then see if 2 are enough or you need to fit another one in the deck!
Once upon a time, when Counterspell and Ancestral Recall were still living in the Garden, they ate the fruit from the Tree of Making Noobs Cry.
And it tasted good.
But now all blue cards must suffer for their sin.
I count 9 non-Blue; 13 Blue sources strikes me as quite light for a deck supporting Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, Jace, TMS and Snapcaster Mage. I'd try to jam another Flooded Strand perhaps over a spell slot and probably a 4th Island over one of the 6 colorless sources.
Well guys I actually added an island and a ponder to the deck by dropping the 2x spell pierce. It has seams to have evened out some of the clunkyness to the deck so thanks for the responses. I have only given it 10 or so runs so far to test it out but I have noticed a difference already.
And for my Meta, I need Wastelands and the other utility lands in my deck.
23 (with 14 Blue) and a Ponder sounds totally defensible. Of your 7 Fetches (posted: 3 Flooded, 2 Misty, 2 Scalding), 4 should be Flooded Strand though, right? I mean there's no downside to having 4 options to fetch the basic Plains.
On UW with 7 Fetches I would think the 'optimal' would be 4 Flooded, 1 Misty, 1 Scalding, 1 Polluted.
Completely agree with Jiaozy - you need SDT with Bob.
You may want to diversify your removal suit - for example, 2-3 STP, 1-2 PTE, 1 Ghastly Demise, 1 GFTT. Also, you may wish to do the same with your discard suit - 2 IoK, 2 Thoughseize, maybe add Duress or additional discard in the board against combo/control. Diversifying your removal/discard suit also leaves you less susceptible to surgical extraction/extirpate.
Riptide Laboratory may be a worthwhile 1-of for Snapcaster recursion. Since you are going to be filtering through your deck rather quickly (Brainstorm, Jace, SDT, Bob), you should consider cutting your threats to 2-3 each and relying on Snapcaster recursion for what you need.
I would add a few basics to your mana base. I would drop the Mishra's, 1 fetch and a Tundra for 3 Islands and 1 Swamp.
You may also be right to cut the FOW to 3 or move them to the board, as you are only running about 16 blue cards after you add SDT. Force likes 17+, preferably 19, blue sources for alternative casting cost.
Since Sorin was spoiled, I've been looking for a deck similar to yours, but running Sorin, Elspeth, and Vindicate, perhaps with Humility. Maybe a Superfriends build, just a question of finding the right balance and focus for the deck. Has anyone successfully run Sorin in legacy? Especially in a WUB build?
Actualy... I was using SDT earlier... mainly cause of bobs... but I ended up seeing that I almost always spend mana that I would otherwise cast creatures or aswers... I just never seen to have enought mana... Its hard to have 4-5 mana as I need to cast two spells (5 if one is snapcaster)... I also saw that I most times cast SDT and immediatily search for the land drop or removal in emergency... then I would get the "wharever card I need" and would have to draw the SDT again... And cast it again.
Thats why I droped it for ponders, And because ponder is blue.
I could drop 1 Fetch and 1 Tundra for more 2 basics... Again, I was running 2 Islands, 1 Swamp and 1 Plains a week ago... But I cannot drop Mishra's, as I already complained as how the deck has a problem with board presence and finishers... droping mishras wouldn't make that even worst?
I already have one Riptide Lab... I could fit it... You guys manage to use the snapcaster recurring? I mean... 3 for caster + 3 for bounce in the block step, that being completely tapped out, having 6 mana... I probabily shouldn't just transform mishra, equip jitte and hit for 4 mana?... I don't know... am I using fewer lands then I should? Or the trick is lay caster in one turn and bounce in the next?
The reason to use more basics is to fetch then from the starte to become imune to wasteland? So, how much would be optimal? 2 Island, 1 and 1?
So...that's it? Sensei's Divining Top, diversifing removal/discard and basic lands?... o.o
In this build you could easily trade the 3rd jace for one elpeth or sorin... but It would be better if using 3 fow. I think would be something like
-1 caster -2 dark confidant -1 jace
+1 sorin +1 elpeth +2 ghastly demise
You would have a very strong planeswalker suit, the extra removals would give you time to estabilsh that... But I think the problem is that the RUG delver and UR delver, and another tempo decks, beeing so fast... and the standand uw blade beeing so controlish, you would fall between then having no good match in current meta.
Still would be strong against all mid range decks. Elspeth just win by herself more times than it should.
It's a different deck. Go to ESPER thread.
One suggestion - you dont have to run 4 mage, confidant...
Actualy no... this is the right thread.
The Esper is for Tempo Esper... a very diferent deck.
Mine is a blade control. With black for confidant and inquisition.... that allows me to estabilish alternative gameplans.
The UW blade build uses much more controling cards, while mine is a mid range, you have a strong control suite in form of 3 jaces and snapcasters, moorland haunt, equipments, forces.... but you should be still fast enought to kill a more control deck with a more aggro gameplan...
the curve is almost all 1-2 CMC cards (only force, batterskull and jaces are more)
What I more like about this build is how Dark Confidant and Snapcaster are so much valuable now that I have jitte to equip then... They are not "just" control and card advantage tools... with jitte you can realy get there...
Jitte/jace/ponder/brainstorm all have sinergy with dark confidant.
And I realy can't imagine how you guys manage keep the stoneforge mystic for a turn without having another "must kill" creature.
Jace, Bob, Jitte having flashble snapcasters or waiting mishras, Batterskull ... anything not killed imediatly becomes a major problem for the opponent.
Don't worry, I know this deck. It sounds nice, but it sucks. Honestly.
Dark Confidant doesent fit in this deck at all. We have Jace, so why would you tap out early on to play smth. which will get killed without value - 1 for 1. (unlike SC of SFM)
We dont want to take any extra damage - even if you play 2 fow and 2 jace you will flip them and die.
I can understand black splash for Thoughtseize or Inquisition. But it weakens the manabase so much I wouldnt bother.
I like this list:
http://mtgpulse.com/event/5358#71286
No DC.
I really like the deck Koplinchen provided. It cuts Bob, so it solves the SDT question and frees up some slots. The Vindicates are also nice multi-purpose removal (and can punish an opponent who is short on mana).
The idea with Riptide and SCM is to bounce it EOT and flashback an instant. You are right, 6 mana is a lot to keep casting it, but this is why it is a mid-to-late game trick. Riptide Lab is one of the cards that either barely makes it or gets cut, it may save your ass a few games, but overall, it is usually just a colorless source. Since you have 2 Haunts, I thought you could do 1 Riptide, 1 Haunt, but this is up to you. Karakas is also nice, not sure if you have access to one. Additionally, if you are running Clique, Riptide and Karakas gain extra value.
Yes, the idea behind the basics is to become immune to wasteland. You should be running about 24 lands - you have 23, which is alright, because you have to 4 brainstorms and 2 ponders. You really want to hit your first 4 land drops quickly so you can play a Jace. Against an opponent with wastelands or an unknown opponent who may have wastelands, you want to fetch out basics first to prevent mana screw and take value away from their wastelands. Since your deck has a relatively high mana cost, I would say 4 basics at a minimum. A lot of the 'traditional' U/W lists are running 6 basics.
I don't understand how you guys can have such a bad concensus about Dark Confidant.
First of all... he doesn't kill you... never. If you ever played confidant you would know that dark confidant almost never survive more than 2 turns, cause the opponent always spend everything he has on it.
He knows that if you draw 2 cards a turn... he will lose.
Someone can arge that I have 4 FOW + 1 Batterskull + 3 Jaces... That's to much...but in reality... they are 8 cards that hit me if revealed by bob... while I have other 50 cards that would hit 2 or less, beeing 22 lands, having brainstorm and ponder...
There is absolutily no way you can die for your own bob, except gainst a monored burn (still it can be your salvation anyways)
People chose Vendillion Clique over confidant o.o... Why is that? Actualy, is not cuz Clique hits 3, or can trade cards from opponent hand.. its because it allows me to not tap out...
Thats what Koplinchen said "why would we wanna tap out early".... That's realy a wrong perspective... I want/must tap out... the deck has no card that would give me control for not taping stuff... (the exception might be the spell snare, only 2 for maximize snapcaster value)
Can't you guys see the diference? Is not a Standstill type of control.. a draw-go blade variante as UW. It runs very diferently... If understanding this concept still has something to add, I would be very glad to hear.
Edgar Flores's Build
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=42131
My New Build:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Inquistion of Kozilek
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
3 Ponder
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
------------
I added more basics, as I realy thought thats a correct change... I cutted spell snares and one snapcaster for one more ponder and 2 geists (as I complained before, I wanted a finisher creature)
I think maybe I could use 22 lands and 4 ponders, for adding consistency, mainteining the 4 fow md while improving the consistence of the deck.
Still maybe 4 bs and 4 ponder is to much... So i keeped 23 lands... what u guys think?
(Sorry about my english)
I think this is a good reason that this discussion on builds like this be under an Esper Blade thread. That's not saying the deck's not worthy of discussion, but since you're consciously diverging from the control aspects of UWx Stoneblade, I think it best to keep the strategy discussions separate and focused.
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