[Deck] Affinity

[Shawon]

Well, like I said, I have only been playtesting this, but dispatch seems good for getting blockers out of the way an removing threats.

And drawing two cards seems worse than either playing stoneforge or steelshapers gift. Isn't plating what you are trying to find anyway?

Except Stoneforge would be a more expensive and worse Cranial Plating. And Steelshaper's Gifts just sucks.

No offense, but if you say you've begun playtesting Affinity, you should probably just stick to practicing Affinity before you think about reinventing the deck. Affinity is a hard deck to play, and if you don't understand how the deck works, then it's very easy to incorrectly evaluate the deck's components, such as in your case, Thoughtcast.

[Hanni]

No need to be rude, Shawon.

Well, like I said, I have only been playtesting this, but dispatch seems good for getting blockers out of the way an removing threats.

And drawing two cards seems worse than either playing stoneforge or steelshapers gift. Isn't plating what you are trying to find anyway?

The thing about blockers is, you shouldn't be worried about blockers. Ornithopter, Skirge, and Champion all have evasion.

Although, I wouldn't be running Frogmites. Free 2/2's are nice, but rather underwhelming when you have much stronger options. Memnite is fine since it enables Metalcraft for Mox Opal's, but I don't see a point in Frogmites, especially without Master's or Overseer's.

Regarding Thoughtcast, I don't get what the problem is. Paying a single blue mana isn't slowing your tempo down much at all, and you're drawing 2 cards off it. Affinity empties its hand quickly and wants to refill. Of course you're still going to run SFM and Tezzeret too, but that's no reason to not run Thoughtcast. Steelshaper's Gift is a solid argument against Thoughtcast, since it tutors directly for Plating. I've yet to test it, so it could be better, but a draw 2 for a single mana is still absurdly good.

[dillonkbase]

the frogmites could be ornithopters, I'm not settled on that.

As for SFM being like a thoughtcast, in many cases it is. First if you have a drum, it only costs one mana, and in exchange you get a creature and a plating(2 cards), you also have a way to sneak the plating into play.

The problem with thoughtcast is unlike vintage where digging 3 deep finds you insane cards, affinity is running things like mox opal, memnite, and springleaf drum. The argument I am echoing(I didn't come up with it myself) is that the sure thing is better than the random top two in a deck like this. Consider an opening hand like,

Mox, Skirge, Memnite, nexus, Ancient Den, thoughtcast, dispatch. I wouldn't want to gamble on that.

But the same hand with SFM in the slot held by thoughtcast means you can tutor up plating turn one.

[Shawon]

There's a big difference between one and two mana, so you can't compare THoughtcast to Stoneforge Mystic. Also, Affinity aggressively mulligans, given the deck runs 15-16 lands, even with 8 additional mana sources (Opal/Drum). Thoughtcast helps you recover lost card advantage from aggressive mulligans. Stoneforge Mystic won't help you there.

Stoneforge Mystic in Affinity is exactly winmore. It only helps you when you really need Plating, but in every situation when you need to swarm-aggro your opponent or you need to block your opponent to stop damage, it's terrible.

And this might not seem important, but being able to surprise your opponent isn't something to be ignored. I like having my opponent think "He probably doesn't have Plating, he would've already played it, I think it's safe to tap out..." and then topdeck Plating :)

[dillonkbase]

I don't mean to hijack this thread so I apologize if I am speaking crazy but I wanted to respond and see if anypart of these arguments gain traction. Let me break this down.

There's a big difference between one and two mana, so you can't compare THoughtcast to Stoneforge Mystic. Also, Affinity aggressively mulligans, given the deck runs 15-16 lands, even with 8 additional mana sources (Opal/Drum). Thoughtcast helps you recover lost card advantage from aggressive mulligans. Stoneforge Mystic won't help you there.

SFM is twice as much mana, however, it can also be used with springleaf drum to make mana something I have found that useful. Second, the fact that one third of the deck is mana is precisely why thoughtcast is bad, you draw bad cards like mox opal or memnite most of the time.

Stoneforge Mystic in Affinity is exactly winmore. It only helps you when you really need Plating, but in every situation when you need to swarm-aggro your opponent or you need to block your opponent to stop damage, it's terrible.

Plating is the best card in the deck. Stoneforge can carry it, Stoneforge can block, Stoneforge can fetch jitte too which can beat agro swarm. I don't know if its win more, seems like it can just help you win.

And this might not seem important, but being able to surprise your opponent isn't something to be ignored. I like having my opponent think "He probably doesn't have Plating, he would've already played it, I think it's safe to tap out..." and then topdeck Plating :)

Opponents know that affinity is playing plating, some play worse than others.

[Shawon]

SFM is twice as much mana, however, it can also be used with springleaf drum to make mana something I have found that useful. Second, the fact that one third of the deck is mana is precisely why thoughtcast is bad, you draw bad cards like mox opal or memnite most of the time.

What are you trying to say with your first sentence? That Stoneforge Mystic isn't a manasink or a more expensive Cranial Plating because you can tap it with Drum? That's still not true.

Who says you're just drawing Opal and Memnite with Thoughtcast? If you think that's all you're doing with Thougthcast, then you need to play with the deck a little more. Thoughtcast helps you recover from mulligans and sets you up your mana or your hand to be able to cast a chain of spells or a bomb next turn. The only way you can understand this is by playing more games with Thoughtcast in the deck.

Although, I have been trying out 3 Thoughtcast instead of 4. I don't think it's a 'sacred cow' but it's pretty damn good and I think you need a better reason than splashing a third color for Stoneforge Mystic.

Plating is the best card in the deck. Stoneforge can carry it, Stoneforge can block, Stoneforge can fetch jitte too which can beat agro swarm. I don't know if its win more, seems like it can just help you win.

It is win more, because Cranial Plating isn't a 1-card combo that wins the game once it resolves. If you are justifying Stoneforge Mystic by saying it can also fetch Jitte, you're just better off running more Jitte if you have that much trouble with creature decks.

More than that, Stoneforge Mystic doesn't actually address specific matchups. What matchups are you losing because you can't find Plating fast enough? Etched Champion is a 2/2 for 3 and it hardly seems fit in a fast deck, but it actually helps matchups such as Maverick or Stoneblade because they can't rely on blocking your attackers or using Swords and Snapcasting Swords to stop you, that's why it's in the deck.

[dillonkbase]

I just think Glimpse is a terrible topdeck if you're going aggro and dropping everything to apply pressure. Glimpse is inconsistent to me, and it doesn't seem worth to add a non-artifact card in Affinity if it doesn't guarantee you consistency. Furthermore, even if the deck draws 4-5 cards off of Glimpse, the deck runs shitty cards to support Glimpse, such as Glint Hawk, so you're just going to draw shittier cards not named Cranial Plating off of Glimpse.

Glimpse/thoughtcast, same diff?

[Shawon]

Hahaha... No. And way to take a different argument I made out of context.

[AggroSteve]

i have played affinity for years, as it was my first mtg-deck, and it still is somewhat a petdeck (just sad that arcbound ravager is no good anymore^^), and i can tell your that thoughtcast is awesome in this deck.

IMO if an affinity deck is playing blue, thoughtcast should be an auto-4-off, actally i would have allways wanted more than 4 thoughtcasts in the deck, which was the only reason i tried the erayo/affinity version of the deck with glimpse (did not really like it)

one mana is a big difference in this deck, even with acceleration, and thoughtcast gives you the needed card-advantage for just 1 mana, which is good, and helps chain spells afterwards, as allready said.
sure stoneforge mystic is card-advantage as well, but IMO stoneforge mystic is not that good in a deck that tries to kill in the 3rd/4th turn. (but i have to admit that in hannis mono-W list which is a bit more midrangeoriented i like them a lot)

hope this helps

[Shawon]

On another topic, here is a recent sideboard I've been using:

2 Pithing Needle
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Cursed Totem


My latest additions to the sb are the Cabal Therapies and Jitte as well as the Phyrexian Metamorph. Jitte has been the bane of my existence and it is single-handedly the reason I lose game 1 against creature decks. At first I considered splashing red for Ancient Grudge or perhaps Crush as effective hate, but after seeing another Affinity list on MWS do it I realized, why not just fight fire with fire? So I added some Jitte of my own to the sb. Jitte is an artifact anyway, so it has decent synergy with the deck.

I think the Cabal Therapy has a lot of value that only seems to be realized the more I play with it. Of course, I have to improve on my blind calls, but given that eight-twelve of my creatures are free, I can definitely double Therapy in one turn, which can be devastating against any combo deck and sometimes control as well.

Phyrexian Metamorph is a reactive solution to any big creature cheated via Reanimated or Show and Tell. I like how Metamorph can be used proactively as an additional threat by copying a Plating or Master.

[barackielsackiss]

am i the only one who finds memnite and frogmite completely useless? like there are much better cards to put in those slots

[Shawon]

It's easy to think that Frogmite and Memnite are useless considering they're both inherently weak cards. However, this is Affinity, where the deck's whole is better than the sum of its parts. Ever since its inception, its core theme has always been using inherently weak cards to create brutally fast synergies. Without Frogmite and Memnite, Thoughtcast becomes more expensive, and Springleaf Drum will just sit there while you can't cast your Master or Etched Champion.

I used to take out Memnites for sb cards games 2 and 3, but I realized how useful they can be to activate Mox Opal turn 1, which is pretty important. However, I do take out Frogmite since it's not always free.

[Hanni]

For what it's worth, my Puresteel build doesn't run Frogmites or Memnites.

[Anarky87]

@Shawon: What does your current build look like?

[UnsungHero]

For the record, you should always run...

Phyrexian Walker (0 CMC for 0/3)
over
Memmnite. (0 CMC for 1/1)

Reasons

-Doesn't die to Elesh Norn if it gets snuck out. Allowing you to possibly keep Metalcraft open for a Dispatch (Reanimator)
-Can Block Noble Hirearchs and Dryad Arbors (If Maverick is swinging with them)
-Sword of Fire and Ice doesn't Kill it.
-I would rather have a Cranial Plating on a 0/3 rather than a 1/1. (Id rather have it on something else, but worst case scenario...)
-They CAN block smaller things like 1/1s and 2/2s unlike Memnite who you end up trading with.
-It doesn't die as easy to things like Jitte, Forked Bolt/FireIce,Grim Lavamancer. If your running Metalcraft based cards (Mox Opal, Dispatch)

These may not be a huge deal but having an artifact that has a little more toughness can be crucial to keeping your Metalcraft going.

[Shawon]

@Anarky87:


4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MBS] Signal Pest
4 [M11] Ornithopter
4 [SOM] Memnite
2 [NPH] Vault Skirge
3 [SOM] Etched Champion
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte


Regarding your PM, for budget purposes City of Traitors can be replaced with Crystal Vein. I wouldn't run Ancient Tomb because there's too much red in the format (Delver, Burn).

For the record, you should always run...

Phyrexian Walker (0 CMC for 0/3)
over
Memmnite. (0 CMC for 1/1)

Reasons

-Doesn't die to Elesh Norn if it gets snuck out. Allowing you to possibly keep Metalcraft open for a Dispatch (Reanimator)
-Can Block Noble Hirearchs and Dryad Arbors (If Maverick is swinging with them)
-Sword of Fire and Ice doesn't Kill it.
-I would rather have a Cranial Plating on a 0/3 rather than a 1/1. (Id rather have it on something else, but worst case scenario...)
-They CAN block smaller things like 1/1s and 2/2s unlike Memnite who you end up trading with.
-It doesn't die as easy to things like Jitte, Forked Bolt/FireIce,Grim Lavamancer. If your running Metalcraft based cards (Mox Opal, Dispatch)

These may not be a huge deal but having an artifact that has a little more toughness can be crucial to keeping your Metalcraft going.

You make some interesting points, however, I think you're underestimating Memnite as an attacker. Memnite is at its best when you have it down Turn 1 with Signal Pest. Each Memnite you play has 2 power with Pest on the field. Same goes for Master of Etherium.

The 1 damage Memnite deal goes a long way. I've dealt exactly lethal with a Memnite + Plating several times.

[Mr. Froggy]

Is Ravager relevant at all in Affinity lists nowadays?

[GnuHouse]

Is Ravager relevant at all in Affinity lists nowadays?

Maindeck, no. With Metalcraft I think that Ravager is counterproductive now. However, I play it in the sideboard for Dredge so I can get rid of their Bridges

[Mr. Froggy]

I want to remove it, but I'm not sure what to put in the deck in its place.

[Zupponn]

I use Steel Overseer, but that's because I run Redffinity and go the pure Aggro route.