Does Manamorphose work well in this deck?
How do Lingering Mirage, Sea's Claim and Convincing Mirage compare to Phantasmal Terrain for you?
Why Energy Field over Propaganda?
Suppression Field affects Seal of Removal, does not affect Elephant Grass.
HI guys, MUC player here !
Nobody knows the card, I guess...
May I suggest Quicksilver Fountain ? (MUC players love Island)
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player puts a flood counter on target non-Island land he or she controls of his or her choice. That land is an Island for as long as it has a flood counter on it.
At the beginning of each end step, if all lands on the battlefield are Islands, remove all flood counters from them.
Note : "The land stays an Island until the flood counter is removed, even if Quicksilver Fountain leaves the battlefield." Source : Gatherer.
I hope it helped lol
The "Each player" part could run into problems with choke on the battlefield.
Energy Field Stops so much more because it prevents damage. Propaganda just slows attacks unless we are in lock down mode.Originally Posted by waSP
Damage prevention Field provides extends past creatures. Like burn for example targeted or untargeted. Most if not all burn lists roll over to this cards resolution. They can not send anything to our grave. ... you get the idea.
The thing I wish it stopped which I do not believe it does is Tendrils of Agony. Tendrils causes life loss whereas Field prevents damage.
I'll respond to all the others after work.
Why 2 Emrakul? Why not a different Eldrazi/other big creature, or simply just one Emrakul and more Defense of the Heart?
Why not Solitary Confinement? Or Replenish? Or Sterling Grove? I think that there are some cards from the 'normal' Enchantress deck that should definitely be played here.
As mentioned, Sea's Claim or Lingering Mirage are better than Phantasmal Terrain.
Because one needs to search for another Emrakul if one is in hand.
I also think 4 Elephant Grass and 4 Solitary Confinement (instead of Energy Field) should be in the protection slots.
Also, Oblivion Ring is all around a better answer than Seal of Removal.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
Well confinement can't (shouldn't?) be dropped early like an energy field. I think.
I don't think Manamorphose is right. I could be wrong, I'm just not sure if that is the best way of going about fixing some early mana issues.
All the cards mentioned are better I have updated the OP.
That is correct, however wcm8 also raises a good point in is it better to have 2 Emakrul as opposed to 1 Emakrul and 1 other creature?
I like the double Emakrul because it is the best finisher especially when you consider we can turn Karakas into an island. I also like the fact that it does give mill decks a little more to worry about, though 1 Surgical Extraction on their part would still do the trick on both.
I just like that it gives mill decks more to deal with though Suppression Field, Choke and post board Leylines.
They also help from accidentally milling ourselves.
Yes given the poor interaction of Seal of Removal and Suppression Field I think it is best to swap the Seals to Oblivion Rings. I have updated the OP.
I personally prefer Energy Field in this list because this is more of a tempo enchantress build with a prison-like "lock" whereas the traditional lists are more of a "control" list. As in they control their game state. As Hyperchord24 points out Solitary Confinement is functionally very similar, but requires more mana and more set-up. You better have an enchantress in play in order to cast it or have two copies, or some other plan otherwise your just stalling.
The deck I built eliminated fetches for two reasons 1 Suppression Field & Choke are strong enough to warrant their exclusion & 2 I wanted to eliminate anything going to the graveyard to break Energy Field. I can drop an Energy Field as early as turn 2, and force my opponent to have to deal with it (tempo). Whereas I can not with Solitary Confinement.
Now there are many matchup where that is not the correct way to play the deck, but there are also many where it is. Goblins, Burn, Maveric... All of those have to deal with it in order to attempt to win, and Goblins and Burn just can't.
I have also played Energy Field with the combo of Wheel of Sun and Moon in the past, but I had found it just wasn't worth it. If something could kill my Energy Field it could also kill my Wheel of Sun and Moon and they would two for 1 me. WoSaM just doesn't do enough for a slot because even in the MU where you would think you would want it Dredge you still have Elephant Grass, Leyline of the Void, depending on the Dredge build Leyline of Sanctity, Defense of the Heart & Energy Field to help tempo you to a win.
Why do you think Solitary Confinement should be played over Energy Field? I'm asking because even though I'm pretty certain Energy Field is the right call, I'd love to be convinced otherwise because I do like playing with confinement.
I too have thought of this, but the more non-forests the list runs the riskier it is to run Utopia Sprawl a quality acceleration tool. Is there someone out there that is savvy with mana bases that can help me figure out what the proper amout of blue sources would be so we can go about this logically?
I commented above about Solitary Confinement, but as for Replenish & Sterling Grove they are not tempo cards.
Do not get me wrong. They are very powerful, but what would I get back with Replenish that I couldn't just dig for? In testing my yard stays fairly empty by design. If I were to run Replenish I'd run Intuition and you'd have a completely different combo-y deck.
Sterling Grove is a great protection piece, but with this deck I want to be the aggressor, and put my opponent on their heals to where they have to fight to protect themselves not the other way around like the traditional "control" enchantress lists. I also do not run a toolbox to fully utilize Grove. ...and the Suppression Field/Sterling Grove interaction is too much to bear.
Solitary Confinement hoses combo; Solitary Confinement does not die to Wasteland or Defense of the Heart. Although its drawback is obvious, it guarantees to buy you a turn, if not more.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
I'm confused by the usage of Carpet of Flowers
Deckbor.org says
"At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."
While Magiccards.info reads
"At the beginning of each of your main phases, if you haven't added mana to your mana pool with this ability this turn, you may add up to X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the number of Islands target opponent controls."
Which would influence how the trick should work (or not).
whats correct here?
Might it be worth running forbidden orchard for blue sources to help with defense of the heart?
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I think the important question to ask when comparing two cards that fill a significant role in the deck is what matchups are improved/disimproved by running this or that card.
Energy Field over Confinement:
Improved: Goblins, Burn
Worsened: Anything with Wasteland, anything with hand removal, anything with counters.
Not significantly affected: Maverick probably?
This is maybe something for the rules forum, but WoSaM will cause itself to go to the bottom of your library if destroyed. The game doesn't know it's not in play until it has already done its replacement effect.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...tiverseid=5858
Gatherer is correct.
Rules Advisor
I think this is a good way to look at it. ...and as for the Wheel of Sun and Moon replacement effect question I found this.
According that old Rulings forum post WoSaM's replacement effect will place WoSaM on the bottom of the library.
Forbidden Orchard has always been in the list.
Having run Energy Field in a number of enchantress lists I can say you fear counterspells the most.
So much so many times you may just draw and pass until you have another in hand, or an E grass or whatever which is still fine for this deck.
This list worries very little about Wasteland. Can it and will it happen? Sure, but there will be more times where Suppression Field will keep your opponent off of Waste. If they are on non-color mana and not MUD you should be winning, and can force them to use it or loose it with a sea's of some kind or an S Field. before dropping E Field.
Discard you will most definitely want to bring in Leyline of Sanctity because with discard usually comes Sac effects, and that one card hoses both.
The earlier point I wanted to make with Propaganda over Energy Field is that if you're doing your job, it will improve some of your worse matchups (while disimproving some of your very good matchups). You'll lose more games/matches to burn but you'll win more against aggro control. You should do about the same against goblins.
Manamorphose sounds like a good idea for the deck (if you don't get a CoB/FO/US opening which should be 15% of your openers--Manamorphose would drop that number to about 7% if I'm doing my calculations correctly--anyway). This deck seems like it wants to cycle through cards pretty quickly to get to its Chokes, etc. You could run 8-12 cycle cards (MM, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith), but the life loss might get excessive. Gitaxian would be able to tell you if you're safe to do things like play Energy Field/Choke or if you want to try to draw out the counter with other spells. It can certainly help you to be a better player.
But in the same vein, what about Ground Seal? It fits better into a shell with Solitary Confinement as it's very good at sustaining card draws.
Why only 3 Chokes? That is the most important card for the game plan, right?
What about Jace, the Mind Sculptor over Defense of the Heart for the kill? Especially if you run on Propaganda, it will be very hard to attack you. I know you really enjoy playing with Defense of the Heart, but is it the best possible win condition. Playing with Jace would free up a slot or two and has the added benefit of acting like spot removal sometimes.
Just so the thread does not go off on a tangent Jace, the Mind Sculptor is nothing but activated abilities, and does not play nice with Suppression Field. Defense is triggered, and wins relatively on the spot.
I'll respond to the rest after work.
I didn't think we'd have too much trouble paying 2 for Jace's ability. I haven't had the chance to test yet, but are you usually tight on mana?
This is true, but sometimes it's 4, 6, or even 8.
Suppression field is our best tool against Plainswalkers, and equipments so I tend to stack them out early when possible.
I understood that, but if the deck is doing it's job that means you landed a few island enchants, and a Choke. It happens fairly often but sometimes you just need a "wall" or an obstacle for your opponent to get through while you set that up. So I still think Energy Field is the right call.
Also, by the time we are at that phase of the game and we wanted that type of effect we would probably rather have Solitary Confinement as we would likely be able to support it. Energy Field is just more flexible in it's usage so it is just less dead more often.
I'm warming to the idea of Manamorphose except that it goes to the graveyard. As does Gitaxian Probe, and Street Wraith. Street Wraith also has the added problem of cycling (an activated ability) Maybe these should be tried, but the interaction of Energy Field and Suppression Field (very good cards for the deck) is a strong enough deterant for me not to test them right now.
No, I'd say Carpet of Flowers & the enchantress effect cards are the most important cards for the deck. If a Carpet of Flowers is landed i'm probably going to win because then I cycle through my deck pretty quickly hitting 1 of the 3 Choke. Many times contol is out of gas by the time I try and stick a Choke.
They also don't do anything in multiples so I think 3 is just fine. A 4th copy wouldn't be terrible, but I'm not sure if it is the best use of the card slot.
I'm open to alt win cons, but Emrakul is quite good. He also functions like spot/board removal.
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