That is a valid point that I didn't think about. The most common way to get rid of a creature that size also gives you back the investment payed for the 7 cards.Originally Posted by Rizso
Swords is played a lot more than Path in legacy right?
Path would come in out of the sideboard. And Karakasing Griselbrand after you pay 7 to draw seven seems like a lulzy way to set up an alpha strike.
They can't be that stupid. The new time walk has to get the ban hammer. It will be played in anything blue and drastically change the Legacy format. High tide will be the number 1 deck IMO because it abuses it the most. High tide is a turn 4 deck. With this card, it will be a consistent turn 3 deck. With brainstorm, preordain and ponder, it is extremely easy to set up the turn 3 walk into turn 4 combo. This puts high tide firmly into the Tier 1.
Delver aggro will eat this shit up. You can use it to get multiple attacks in when you chain the walks. It's an extremely powerful card which can turn aggro control into the undisputed tier 1. You can race other decks by simply having free walks while a Delver/green dude pecks at their life total.
Control will have to play it. I can see 4 Brainstorm, 4 Sensei, 3 Jace decks returning. Welcome back. Counterbalance. You use it to rig early walks and you basically get a bunch of free rampant growths. Late game you can use it in conjunction with Jace to totally out the game out of reach.
Card must be banned. This shit is retarded.
What's sad is that they really are that stupid. The DCI'll probably come to this same conclusion but do the opposite and ban all those cards that you just listed because they're "enablers" for this degenerate time-walk strategy
and in the process, they ban most of the "enablers" of fun in this format too. Baby with bathwater. Gone.
Precedent suggests that enablers get banned over the cards that are being immediately oppressive: see Mystical Tutor and Survival over Vengevine. MMS was a bit of a special case because it was just generally good, but this new Time Walk is going to need Top, Brainstorm, and/or Personal Tutor to be worth it. Any and all of those could see the banhammer if they mean miracles, and miracle-like mechanics, are safe in the future.
Recurring Temporal Mastery with stuff like False Mourning/Noxious Revival/Reclaim - salted with a little dredge for luck - is pretty stupid too. Though it does have issues with grave hate.
Hmm...maybe some Doomsday piles?
FWIW Grieselbrand is a pretty juicy reanimation/Necrotic Ooze/Sneak Attack option.
It exiles itself when cast.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I don't even have anything more to say at this point but I'm about to go to sleep for the night and I wanted to take a moment to once again underscore how furious I am that they did this bullshit. This is so god damned stupid.
That alone is enough to make me just completely dislike this set.
I'm having a conniption fit because Temporal Mastery is a Time Walk a good percent of the time in any deck playing Brainstorm and Ponder/Top...I'm playing a deck that plays all three and I don't think I can justify shoehorning Temporal Mastery into it...and the card put the final nail in the coffin that was my hopes and dreams of ever playing something like NLS. Sweet.
Pretty much this. The DCI learned the hard way what happens when you don't ban enablers and instead ban the cards that piggyback off the enabler back when Necropotence was tearing up old Extended. I mean, seriously, that was the same format where Enduring Renewal was banned instead of Necro. People can throw a tantrum all they want about banning enablers like Survival because they're "fun" cards to play with, but I don't want to see another Necro fiasco where powerful enablers just find new friends to cause the same problems all over again.
The same Surging Chaos on Salvation.
There's too many ways to fix your top card to realistically ban them all. If Miracle Time Walk is good enough to become a regular 4-of, it will have to be banned itself. Plus, I think R&D hates decks that take a lot of extra turns only slightly less than they hate Dredge.
Also:
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
The slightly paranoid cynic in me wants to interpret this as, "We're printing a card we know will be chase, putting it at the highest rarity, and then making bank while it wrecks formats. We'll then ban it because we knew it was OP and then all the people who spent tons of money, and the stores who opened tons of packs, trying to get this card will feel like idiots."Also:
But that would just be silly.
You know you're in trouble when the head of Development says a just-released card is broken.
Rules Advisor
They're not going to print a card that they think would have to be banned in Standard, Jace helped sell a lot of packs of Worldwake, but it had many negative effects later on that were not good for their bottom line.
As for Eternal formats, well, not much to say there really.
Guess my mind assploded before I got that far.
God DAMN did I call that shit or what?! One U off.
Counterbalance and High Tide are going to be the shit. Picking up a play set of Personal Tutors ASAP just to make some monies.
That demon is also nice. Drawing 7 cards is huge. Drawing 14 is even better. So its basically Yawgmoth's Bargain and a creature that gets shit done all on its own. I'll take 4 and see where I can stick it. Hitting 8 is possible for decks like Belcher and SI. Might we see a new storm engine here? Culling the Weak. That is all. Pretty funny though. They finally figured out how much Necropotence was supposed to cost. 4BBBB.
I don't think they will ban Brainstorm. I think they are going to print a few other cards to balance things out, if thats even possible.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
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Expect me or die. I play SI.
If wizards does that money grab + banned bullshit... I think they'll lose alot of us as players. They cannot ban the enablers because they are too many. They gonna ban sleigh of hand/portent/serum visions too?
And gristleband just made sneak attack even stronger, wow. Just sneak it into play, draw 14. Drop a petal, drop emmy. Bash, win. Even if they deal with gristleband. Oh hi, I have a full grip of forces and goodies, gg.
I genuinely don't even want to see this in the format. I don't even want to see this in standard. I don't want to see this anywhere.
I would have much preferred to see something like:
Miracle, U: Counter the next spell your opponent plays.
or 1U: Draw 3 cards.
or U: Tap all of your opponent's creatures.
or U, Choose and discard X cards: Draw X cards.
Or anything but fucking time walk.
This is true, although knowing R&D they'll just print another card that breaks library manipulation again later in the future.
I'll be sleeping on it for now. I still can't believe Wizards printed this card, but I guess we'll have a few months before June 20th to see where everything stands.
The same Surging Chaos on Salvation.
It's getting the Memory Jar treatment. If it doesn't, Wizards has truly given up on Legacy and it's time to sell your staples. Let's hope that isn't the case.
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