[Deck] Dredge

[HokusSchmokus]

R&D fucked it up badly. This guy should have cmc 7. Seriously, symmetry anyone?
Still, I don't think this is a playable. Seems intruiging, but I already see myself being dead because of it.
On a side not, I Top4ed a tournament in my area with Flayer. I am very happy with my list as it is. Going to write a report this evening or tomorrow.
If you are bored, you can ask K1w1 how:
a) I lucked out heavily in our mirror match (G1 that is)
b) I punted the quarterfinals in a almost epic fashion. Countless misplays on both sides and as I looked to K1w1, he seemed to be banging his head against the table:P

PS: Nic Fit seems to be a more favourable matchup for Flayer lists.

Edit:Never mind, I thought you had to tap him...AWMAHGAWD I'm gonna have some fun with this guy

[K1w1]

On a side not, I Top4ed a tournament in my area with Flayer. I am very happy with my list as it is. Going to write a report this evening or tomorrow.
If you are bored, you can ask K1w1 how:
a) I lucked out heavily in our mirror match (G1 that is)
b) I punted the quarterfinals in a almost epic fashion. Countless misplays on both sides and as I looked to K1w1, he seemed to be banging his head against the table:P

PS: Nic Fit seems to be a more favourable matchup for Flayer lists.

Yes, thanks for pointing out, that i lost against you :D ( I went 2-3 -.- )
This was the scenario:
I'm on the draw with Coliseum,LED,some Dredgers and he plays a land into looting, go.
I draw a coliseum and think a bit.I came to the conclusion, if he can't kill me next turn, i win with double coliseum + LED, i play coliseum, go. He wins with flayer in this turn...

And to the Top 8: He is right. "he seemed to be banging his head against the table:P"

Congratz to Top 4, but how did you lose against High Tide in the quarterfinals?

I had nothing important in my matches:
2:0 Burn
0:2 Dredge ( 72 cards mirror HokusSchmokus )
2:0 Dredge.... ( Felidae without DR + Flayer )
1:2 Canadian
1:2 Canadian ( 3. Game lose against TOPDECK Crypt!! )

[HokusSchmokus]

He was topdecking a meditate with lethal on my board.and no draw spells ,just tides and a turnabout in hand( he extracted my therapies). But to be fair the start was quite a fight and we both were pretry crippled as a result,so if I have just two moebas he has way too much time for me to win.
Also wasn,t it a 74 card mirror?:p But what I meant with having "lucked out" was that I killed you while having almost nothing in my yard and two Narcomoebas in my hand)

Btw guys, I am quite psyched because there will be a return to ravnica! I hope for some Golgari Goodies:)

[I am the brainwasher]

Btw guys, I am quite psyched because there will be a return to ravnica!

... till then you might consider terrorizing people with that brand new demon-douche.
Gsus I need to dust off this deck.

[K1w1]

Ah the Moebas...
I would insult you, but they are shown in stars
Joking..
I thought 74, too. But you played 1 more citadel, i played 1 more journey.
But i think we should get back to the topic.

[HokusSchmokus]

Okay then:
How awesome will be Griselband-Guy in a Combo infested Meta! If you are careful about Chants, you win against almost any combo deck on the spot when you DR him. Good Stuff!
Note that Sadistic Hypnotist is quite good in this slot, too.
ATM though I would consider Griselbrand superiour because it is way much fun to do, does effectively the same and disheartens opponents like there's no tomorrow!

[K1w1]

The thing is, there are so many big dudes which you can reanimate with dread return. For example:
elesh against mirror/elves/goblins
iona against combo/mono-decks
etc..

Flayer is actually the best, IMO! You have to find a big dude who wins for you without that you need other targets from your sideboard for some matchups.
You know i had Sadistic Hypnotist in my board. Never boarded him in. I thought for a while and came to the conclusion, " hey, flayer is better ".

That's why you actually don't need a target in your sideboard, imo.
And in addition i think Griselbrand can be the same like Flayer ( But i prefer Flayer, atm )

[Gui]

I believe Griselbrand is one of the best DR targets printed for this deck in a long time. The only thing I'm not sure is about the 7 life cost, because you could be under pressure for some reason, but other than that, it will win the game on the spot most of the time. And with the benefit of being huge, flying, gaining life, and feeding Ichorids. And it even gives Moat some O.K. out.

Also, it's less situational than Flayer, although Flayer can win on some situations where Griselbrand can't, Grisel will only require you to pop a single DR to win the game, pretty much no drawback. Oh, and I think Griselbrand + Flayer is the new Sphinx + Flamekin.

[Digital Devil]

Well, it's another big dude we don't need.

When I first saw the card, I instantly thought about it kicking Iona out of the equation: she is auto win against Burn, but Griselbrand has lifelink, and is not easy to kill; Iona is good against Spiral Tide, but Griselbrand can mill my deck and find all 4x Therapies to rape my opponent's hand; same with ANT, except I don't lock my opponent, I literally make it impossible for him to recover; it also acts as a semi-Angel of Despair (except it doesn't nuke Emrakul), since you can regularly draw your Nature's Claim to destroy Moat, or your Firestorm to kill Peacekeeper, not to mention you can get additional lands to hardcast Thugs and Narcomoebas. It is fine against aggro and it also pitches to Ichorid. Why wouldn't we want to play it?

[jares]

I prefer to look at Griselband in the simplest way possible: he's a creature that can be an imposing presence in the board while also being able to further our dredging capability. I don't believe that any of our more popular DR targets can be attributed to both capabilities. In fact, if you look at it (not to overdo the hype or anything), Griselband could be the new FKZ+Sphinx by himself!

Cheers,
jares

[Michael Keller]

Unless the card gets preemptively banned (which it won't), Griselbrand is indefinitely finding its way into my deck. There is absolutely no excuse not to run this card - none what so ever.

Well, maybe the seven life could be relevant. Sun Titan basically plows through your deck anyhow and wins the game just like he does. Is the seven life going to be worth it? I'm not sure; it still is slightly situational and can be a hefty price to pay against the wrong deck game one. Seven life is still seven life; I just think the card is still going to be incredibly good.

The issue I see with Griselbrand is how good he is going to make other archetypes. This is going to put Reanimator really back on the radar, which is going to be incredibly bad for Dredge.

[Vandalize]

Lol, this Griselbrand dude is so awesome (except against Burn and RUG, possibly). I'd say 2DR main + Griselband?

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
2 Dread Return

3 Ichorid
3 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
1 Griselbrand

SB 4 Nature's Claim
SB 3 Firestorm
SB 2 Ancient Grudge
SB 2 Tarnished Citadel
SB 1 Ray of Revelation
SB 1 Dread Return
SB 1 Flayer of the Hatebound
SB 1 Ichorid

[K1w1]

Griselband could be the new FKZ+Sphinx by himself

I agree. When you dredge your entire deck, you therapy away all the things which could stop you. ( pulse/deed etc..)
You opponent has no cards in his hand, you have a lot of tokens and if he finds a topdeck gravehate, no problem because you have tokens to win. If he finds anything to destroy your tokens ( wrath of god/damnation etc.. ) you still have ichorids in your graveyard.

So you could be right, that Griselbrand could be the the new FKZ+Sphinx be himself!
Sounds great on paper, but we can't be sure as long as we didn't test it.

K1w1

My list would be the same like i actually play, with 1 change: -1 Breakthrough + Griselbrand

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum

4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
2 Breakthrough

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Ichorid

3 Putrid Imp
3 Dread Return
1 Griselbrand
1 Flayer of the Hatebound

[jares]

Well, maybe the seven life could be relevant. Is the seven life going to be worth it? I'm not sure; it still is slightly situational and can be a hefty price to pay against the wrong deck game one. Seven life is still seven life; I just think the card is still going to be incredibly good.

I also see this to be the only significant drawback, given that Burn has also become fairly rampant, and that we also use lands that have recoil.

The issue I see with Griselbrand is how good he is going to make other archetypes. This is going to put Reanimator really back on the radar, which is going to be incredibly bad for Dredge.

I've also thought about this for a moment, and realized that Reanimator already has its draw (and discard) enabler - Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. The difference between Jin and Griselbrand is that the former requires the end step to be activated - something that Reanimator can afford, but Dredge cannot. I don't expect Reanimator to benefit from Griselbrand as much as Dredge potentially can, though some improvements will surely be made. Unfortunately for us, improvements for Reanimator will mean more hate for them, and will also mean more hate for us.

Regards,
jares

[jares]

Lol, this Griselbrand dude is so awesome (except against Burn and RUG, possibly). I'd say 2DR main + Griselband?

So you could be right, that Griselbrand could be the the new FKZ+Sphinx by himself!
Sounds great on paper, but we can't be sure as long as we didn't test it.

Agreed. It'll be another exciting time for us to go through the testing of this new toy. I'm actually not running any Dread Returns in my current list, but I'll really need to reconsider things when this dude becomes legal.

Cheers,
jares

[K1w1]

Agreed. It'll be another exciting time for us to go through the testing of this new toy. I'm actually not running any Dread Returns in my current list, but I'll really need to reconsider things when this dude becomes legal.

Cheers,
jares

If you want, we can play at cockatrice next week or something in this time to test it.

[Mindlash]

I can see me at one point of the Future combining Griselbrand with Laboratory Maniac just for the lulz :D May be a bit to much Deckspace required though.

But pretty exciting card. Will test it in my Sun Titan slot. We will see if the 7 Life are worth it :-)

[jares]

If you want, we can play at cockatrice next week or something in this time to test it.

Sounds good. I doubt if the patches for the new set will be available by then, though, but we can always play around with a proxy (like Reiver Demon or something).

Cheers,
jares

[K1w1]

I'm actually using a Demon Token

[KobeBryan]

Wow that new demon will be my main dredge return target now.

If i need to draw an answer to hate, I can just draw 7 instead of dredging.

This card is broken in dredge.