Seems weak? Passing the turn with doomsday is super sketchy and its the only way you can miracle time walkOriginally Posted by majikal
Problem is that it takes too many slots. I've been trying to make it work, no luck so far.
Oh yeah and 2 Personal tutors with 1 temporal seems just right for high tide. You can. Use the personals to get the extra walk for exploring early game while if you draw personal. Mid combo, you can use it to find time spiral. Seems win win for me.
Wow. This is some great insight. What would you say is a powerful card that doesn't see play in Legacy?
Laboratory Maniac is definitely the weak link in that combo. It dies to all kinds of removal, and the penalty is that you lose the game instead of your opponent. Despite that, I think that the ideal build would be something like this:
Turn 1: land -> thoughtseize
Turn 2: land -> mana acceleration -> doomsday for 4x temporal mastery, laboratory maniac
You also have the option of using personal tutor to search for doomsday in the first few turns of the game.
Turn 3: land -> temporal mastery -> extra turn (repeat)
Turn X: (draw laboratory maniac) -> cast it with fow/daze/duress backup depending on how many extra land you have -> gitaxian probe / brainstorm / sensei's divining top for the win. Obviously you can hold the card draw and play it in response to their removal for the maniac. This works out nicely for you since you'll deck yourself by default next turn anyway, so the opponent is forced to kill the maniac proactively.
You can also side into a shelldock isle + emrakul, the aeons torn package to dodge some of the hate. In fact, you can just run it maindeck and choose your combo on the spot depending on what your opponent is doing. I haven't thought about it much, so I'm not sure if this works, but you might be able to use the personal tutor -> temporal mastery combo with the doomsday->shelldock+emrakul package to win a turn earlier than normal.
Natural Order, Moat and Nether Void all see very little play.
I'm going to quote you on that one. Aren't you the guy who suggested ground seal in reanimator?
Just a question for any rules gurus:
Can the Research half of Research/Development get the exiled copies of this back? Or are they restricted to the sideboard like wishes are now? Thanks.
I best agree with your sentiment.
I was thinking today why time walking effects are so powerful. I think it's because such an intrinsic symmetry in magic has been dissolved, even if momentarily. Breaking this symmetry in a game that rewards proper and efficient micromanaging will be made clear shortly after release. Think about it. The enablers are quality, legacy-worthy cards anyway, so, playing a card that accelerates us into our fundamental turn sooner is worthy of some serious brewing.
The exile zone is still within the game, so Research is only able to grab sideboard cards. Pull from Eternity can grab a used Temporal Mastery, though.
Tusk up.
All this talk about the new Time Walk reminds me of the talk about Lorescale Coatl.
People at the time said, "Well, it's not bad on its own, but if you Brainstorm with one out, then it becomes insane. And you can run a bunch of cantrips to grow it and also keep your hand full of counters and removal. This guy's busted."
That was all fine in theory and everything, but in practice, the card was mediocre, and if you were Brainstorming and Pondering and whatever else on a regular basis, you could win with just about anything. So why would you want to stick a mediocre card in your deck that needs Brainstorm and Ponder to be good when you can just stick good cards in your deck and find them all with Brainstorm and Ponder? And thus did Lorescale Coatl never see any play.
I think the takeaway lesson here is that there's no reason to stick mediocre cards in blue decks, even ones that can theoretically win the game. And that's what this new Time Walk is: something mediocre on its own that theoretically wins the game when set up right - assuming, of course, that you remembered to add win conditions after you shoved eleventy billion cantrips and Personal Tutors and whatever else into your deck so that you could Time Walk.
I mean, Time Warp isn't playable and it costs five. This thing costs seven. You basically HAVE to miracle it for it to be playable. And for what? An Explore + Relentless Assault? I'm not buying it.
You make really good points, thanks for the reply. I'm still very excited to test it, aren't you?
I think this card has Lorescale Coatl Syndrome - the hype is orders of magnitude greater than what it will likely do. That said, a Time Walk is much more powerful than a random groundpounder dork, so maybe it will see play. But I'm not sure what will want it.
I don't think it slots cleanly into a tempo RUG deck's game plan, but I can't articulate why right now - it just doesn't feel right.
The blue control decks probably don't have room for this. It doesn't really solve any of their problems, although buying more time can sometimes make it feel like you're solving problems.
Combo doesn't want it. It's conditional, costs a fuckton of mana to cast or multiple cards to set up, and doesn't really fit into the "kill you in one turn" thing combo does. You don't want to invest setup spells into enabling what it essentially a glorified setup spell.
Maybe some sort of weird, custom-built deck? I have no idea.
I was actually getting my ass kicked by a version like this only it played SDT, Shelldock Isle, Lightning Greaves, Divining Witch... and Paradigm Shift.
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IMO, the place I want to try it first is a Bant Aggro style deck. Turn 1 Noble, turn 2 Geist, Turn 3 Time Walk + sounds pretty solid. You're already in blue so playing Brainstorm, FoW, etc... isn't a big deal. You're getting a lot of value out of extra turns and the deck can play just fine without it. That's my best guess for a place to start.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
The point is that Lorescale Coatl got hyped pretty seriously, on these very forums, because "it's amazing with Brainstorm and Brainstorm is already great, so clearly it will be sweet." I think it's reasonable cautionary advice, though I dislike the "Explore+Relentless Assault" comparison as it, like most of the 'just like an explore' posts massively undersells the value of a successful activation.
Could this be an alternative to Emrakul for Combo Elves?
hell, this also seems like it could be a better Natural Order target than Progenitus in an Elf Deck. Kill potential is very very big.
To be fair, Lorescale is a perfectly reasonable 3-drop beater in a world without Knight of the Reliquary. It's merely a victim of circumstance.
I believe so. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the card.
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Seems better than Mirror Entity because it's on colour and gives trample.
Plus it's a turn faster than Emrakul. Looks pretty good to me.
I get what you guys are saying aggro zombie made him self a little more clear with his next post. One thing I would like to note is that Lorescale Coatl is uncommon Temporal mastery is mythic so the price is going to be insane not to mention personal tutor is a 30 dollar card overnight.
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