You can use Jace or Brainstorm to shuffle it back in your deck if need be. Or cast it late game.Originally Posted by klaus
Ugh, wtf Wizards.
If you're Jacing it, you're probably happy putting it back on top for your next draw (which could be a Brainstorm at opponent's EOT). Both Jace and Brainstorm are valuable for putting one you drew at an inopportune time back, but in the meantime it's a dead card in hand.
We don't want this early because we can't fully captitalize on the extra turn when we're in draw-go. We want this mid-game for added development and hopefully an added attack. Late game is win more because we typically have inevitability on our side if we've made it that far.
This card is not as bonkers as everyone thinks it is at first glance. The real Time Walk lets you hold it until its opportune to have the extra turn, and then cast it for 1U. Temporal Mastery makes you either cast it immediately on draw, or expend resources (time, spells, mana, card selection) to manipulate it into place.
Brainstorming it away when you don't want it is nice, but if youre shuffling it, that doesn't guarantee you'll draw into it when you want it. Personal Tutor into it means card disadvantage: you need to have a developed battlefield to do much useful or it's a glorified free land drop (not that a free land drop is bad). Keeping it in your top 3 with SDT for a few turns means there's a dead card on the top of your deck potentially keeping you from selecting a better card right now. And then we're talking about playing Top in a deck that doesn't usually need to (yes, some include Top in Stoneblade, but it's not typical; it may be more of a boon to a Thopter deck).
This may very well be broken, but what it's not is a replacement for Time Walk. Talk of having 4 seems silly, considering you don't generally want one in the top 1/6th of your deck. 2 or 3? Maybe, but I think it's a lot more situational than folks are thinking when they're focused on the miracle cost and not thinking through the details.
Initial 9-10 (depending if you're on the play or draw), since you need 1U at draw time to miracle it. But its value on turn 3 is pretty limited, considering you'll enter your main phase tapped out.
It's worst if it's in your opener with no Brainstorm and no Force of Will.
If you have a FoW, then it's easily pitchable. No cost.
If you have a Brainstorm, you can either put it second from the top (to be used on t3) or possibly shuffled away.
If, at worst, you play it t3, it is still at almost no cost. Drop a land, play a one-drop if you have it, untap drop a fourth land. This only becomes risky against decks running Daze.
At best, you can topdeck (or set this up) for turn 4-6 when you can make better use of your extra main phase and attack phase (another Jace/Elspeth activation, untap with Mystic, etc).
Don't forget also, that if you can instantly draw it off the top at their EoT, then you can untap with two full turns.
Two full turns, but -1 card. Probably still worth it (esp as you get full mana, making a Jace drop more likely), but just pointing that out. No matter how you draw into it, you have to draw into it, meaning it could have been something else to draw.
Not sure if it will be banned. Fow, brainstorm and jace just make it a bit easy to set up and even if you just use it to accelerate out an jace it's incredibly good. Not a 4-of as having it in hand without fow,brainstorm or jace is a bit lousy but i can definately see it work as a 3-of.
May be more insane in some delver like list though as an active threat on the table makes it so much more potent.
Seems rather weak in blue mirrors though and against some control decks as you need to tap out when you don't want to or run top to make it active on other turns
Quick question, can you crack fetches in response to the miracle trigger? Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.
Legacy: Miracles
Anyone still rocking the red splash? I understand the raw power of the esper version but I feel it's still extremely clunky. I'd like to fit in some grim Lavamancer because I had good experiences with it during the mental Misstep days. I like how grim can shut down Delver and sfm. Against esper blade you can shoot down whatever jitte gets equipped to everyone time they try. Of course the dissynergy with snap is there so I'm planning to play this list:
4 Brainstorm
4 Fow
4 Spell Snare
4 Jace TMS
3 Snapcaster
3 Grim
2 Clique
4 Stp
2 Bolt
4 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic
4 Scalding
4 Flooded
1 Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
I feel grim smoothes out the curve nicely. I've basically cut 2 Counterspell and a Snapcaster for the grims. I've always liked how grims are an immediately dangerous threat for 1 mana and gets plowed immediately, opening the way for SFM to stick. Counterspell has always felt like a loose slot because it's beyond clunky. I never really casted it during a time that matters. It usually gets stuck in my hand for ages because I don't have the 2 mana open. I'm always tapping out for SFM, jace or the draw step clique.
The esper versions just feel so clunky, totally tripping over itself and getting tied up and raped by Delver aggro.
Yep, you can also cast Vendilion Clique and take their miracle away, or Stifle the trigger, or just counter the spell (unfortunately, it's going to fly right over Spell Snare), cast Silence/Chant, etc.
I have got the same sentiments about CS..
I don't think that the Miracle cards are auto includes to this or any deck, as they take time to set into place, and what are you displacing to allow them to enter the deck.
Offset, has to outweigh what they remove, and an extra turn is not always a game winner (although it should certainly help).
I can build a deck that looks a lot like RUG that will completely outclass the current DTB, and will play 4 of these. Even if they banned Brainstorm, it then goes from "I win every game" to "Mull to 6...oops I win," i.e. the reason everyone hated cascade.
If it gets big in Legacy, play Predict or play more Spellpierce.
By now i am not really impressed, but we'll see what some wicked minds will brew.
Playing those cards is not a sufficient strategy to beat Temporal-Mastery.dec. You're going to try really hard to line up all of your cards, only to lose to Nimble Mongoose and Delver.
'What i mean is that you shouldn't paint the sky black before you actually know how that thing really works. If it happens to be a strong card for Canadian we will have to adapt. For now i doubt that it pushes Delverdecks over the top.
have you tested this version? i run red for 2 sulfur elementals and 2 red blasts side which seem like it'd be very good against the esper version (other than that im straight uw stoneblade). but after seeing your lists im tempted to run 2 lavamancers. it seems very good.
Hey guys so I've been thinking of a new version for a while. LMK what you think:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
3 Force of Will
2 Preordain
1 Mana Leak
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wasteland
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wrath of God
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Crucible of Worlds
Thoughts?
FOW is strongest when it's in your initial 7. Play four.
Timewalk will be very good with (SD.top), Brainstorm and Jace obv..
But even if no board presence to abuse from its still a strong topdeck early. Think about it: Late game (or in other words a lot of mana) is where stoneblade is strong. Hence even without a board presence would you play a card that reads "1U play an extra land this turn, draw a card, untap 2 target lands". It will only be bad in the opening 9: but how many games do you play without casting brainstorm, Jace or Force of will?
Will be a 2-4 in Blade control i think.
Currently playing: Elves
I agree. Judging from initial testing, this spell seems to solve U.controls biggest issue:
getting through the early game as unharmed as possible, while keeping the board clean.
That extra turn (+1 land +1 cantrip + untap) makes a HUGE difference.
I've found Chrome Mox to be immensely helpful for frequent turn 2 Time Walks. Though it's a rare scenario, but TM + Mox enable >turn2< Jaces..
Here's my current shell for reference (different archetype, but may contribute inspiration)
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