Thunderous Wrath is an instant, so you can't PT for it.Originally Posted by Kich867
Reforge does look like it could be pretty strong in something like Aggro-loam.
I'm not sure how(Diminishing Returns) compares with
I know this off subject, but New Orleans is below sea level. Katrina was a shit show because it was a mix of ignorant people, ignorant government, and lazy levee engineers. Combine that with the fact that a Catergory five hurricane (almost the size of the gulf of mexico) brought a massive tidal surge into a city that is literally bowl shaped. Also, New Orleans wasn't the only place devastated by the storm, the whole coastline from Louisiana to Alabama was devastated.
I am sorry but try not to compare something like Hurricane Katrina to anything unless you have seen it first hand.
Comparing the two storms are like comparing that one time you got into a fight at school to the Columbine Shooting.
Reforge the Soul
first reaction: "Oh shit! Oh no, they did it ... at 2cc!"
first thoughts:
- ridiculously broken: Wheel of Fortune at 2cc, why didn't they make the miracle cost 2R like the original (banned) Wheel of Fortune? Even the normal cost at 5cc seems playable. And it doesn't remove itself like Temporal Mastery does!
- It is perfect for Burn: Why would anybody now play something different than Burn? Burn got a lot of really strong spells with Avacyn Restored (Devil, Wrath, Reforge).
- I'm almost certain that it will be banned very soon. If even Mark Rosewater said that it might happen ...!
If it's played outside anything that doesn't kill on the same turn, Dredge on the other side of the table might have a field day since it's enabler + 7 dredge possibilities.
Too bad it doesn't seem playable in Dredge itself - or is it?
I find it highly unlikely that this card will se play in anything but storm (or Belcher). Unless you kill the opponent on the same turn there's just no justifying the tempo spent on it, especially considering that the opponent gets to draw into a fresh hand as well for free.
I haven't played dredge much, so this might be totally wrong, but I think that it costing 2 is a little too costly. It does a lot, but at a pretty high price. One benefit is that it means you might be able to build dredge without using blue mana at all, since they typically only need blue for the draw/discard. Of course, without blue it's a lot harder to miracle.
Pretty sure it isn't, but this reminds me that there is an interesting interaction between Miracle and Dredge: dredging a card does not count as a draw, so if you dredge-replace all your draws, dumping a bunch of cards in your graveyard including some Miracle ones, if you then put the Miracle card on top of your library(with Noxious Revival or something) and play a cantrip, you can play it for the Miracle cost.
Dredge can't do these shenanigans, but Loam decks might (assuming there's a more interesting card for them than Reforge the Soul). LftL provides the dredge, cycling lands provide the draw, the remaining issue is reclaiming the Miracle card without playing complete shit to do it. Academy Ruins / Volrath's Stronghold would fit effortlessly, but it seems as if Miracles will stick to instant or sorceries.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
It's busted as fuck in Storm, it doesn't take long to come up with a list that'll send Personal Tutor on the fast track to the banned list IMO, and it's probably even more degenerate than Mystical Tutor and Lion's Eye Diamond were before the ban and rules change because Brainstorm is absolutely ridiculous when you can run as many copies of this thing as you want without kiling yourself ala Ad Nauseam.
Top decking this thing in Storm is so fucking unfair, I have no idea what R&D was smoking when they changed the CC to 1R.
Please elaborate on how this will make storm decks broken. So far I have only seen bad belcher lists being thrown around.
I have no experience playing with Timewalk but Wheel of Fortune is a favorite of mine and I know how busted it is. To me draw 7 > extra turn. I know they're different. Timewalk (at least in Legacy) seems like it would fit aggro/control better and WoF is very combo. But still, if one of the two is broken I put my money on Reforge the Soul.
When Brainstorm and Personal Tutor become "accelerants" for "Wheel of Fortune" and you have ~4 "oops, I win" top decks it's pretty unfair, you can do some pretty ridiculous things like Brainstorm, put Reforge the Soul two cards down, draw and try to go off with Infernal Tutor and Lions Eye Diamond, get countered/Mind Twisted and then top deck Reforge the Soul and try to go off again etc.
I don't have the manabase, disruption and number of Reforge the Soul and Empty the Warrens quite right, but the lines of play are pretty disgusting and I think Reforge the Soul is going to surplant Ad Nauseam as the "go to" Storm engine because it's not nearly as restrictive in terms of the number of the non-tutor threats, Simian Spirit Guides and win/kill conditions (i.e Tendrils of Agony Empty the Warrens) you can run and you're no longer hindered by your life total.
I don't think you should bother with Burning Wish or Ponder from what I've gathered so far, but I may be off.
You're only seeing bad belcher lists because it's foolish to assume that optimized decks are going to appear out of thin air in a day--give it time. I personally think Reforge the Soul is as powerful as Ad Nauseam without imposing the deck constraints that Ad Nauseam does and Reforge the Soul + Past in Flames is cuckoo-bonkers to a level that makes me confident that it must be possible to build a strong Storm deck utilizing the two of them.
Hag Hedge-Mage
+Astral Slide
+Various Miracles
+Cycling Lands
---------------------------------
Two Miracles per turn. (one on your turn, one on your opponents)
Only really works with the White and Red ones out of what's been revealed so far, but there's a lot of potential there if some more good stuff gets spoiled. Temporal Mastery would be perfect, but the "exile clause" kinda ruins it.
I thought I was seeing bad belcher decklists posted with reforge the soul added because everyone was blinded by hype.
There may be *some* truth in those words, but the only point you can genuinely make is that people make bad decks when a card is first revealed.
It's terrible in burn. Every miracle card is terrible in burn. If you play with a miracle card in burn, you deserve all the losses you'll get.
Burn's game plan is to win no later than turn 4. You'll have 7 cards in your opening hand and draw 3.5 cards over that time period (between play and draw). That means 66% of the miracle cards you see will be in your opening hand where they will force mulligans. Now Vexing Devil, that's another story. That you WANT in your opening hand. But Reforge is shit in burn and in RUG Delver as well (why? You don't have enough burn to use it as super reach and your "A" gameplan, tempo them out, is hampered when you spend 2 turns wasting and stifling only to then HAND them more land). It's potentially playable in U/R Delver. It's probably really good in storm and it may make Welder Stax viable again. But as far as existing archetypes go, there isn't a single deck out there that's a real deck right now that wants the card.
That having been said, I won't be surprised at all to see new decks pop up that cause problems in the format.
PLEASE post a decklist that uses this.
This seems fun as hell.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
That was my point. It's essentially Wheel of Fate (the one that barely sees play) vs Reforge the Soul (the one that will brew the shitstorm)
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Miracle Wheel is legit after testing. I don't know if it's broken, but it certainly is playable at worst and potentially nuts.
big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR
Don't disrespect my dojo dude...
Sweep the leg!
Odds that Miracle Wheel will be banned inside of six-nine months: 50%, imo.
Or that it'll cause something else in a deck with it to get banned; LED, B. Wish, Past in Flames, Tendrils, etc..
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
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