Gee Thanks. I had 2 swamps on my maindeck because of the hymns and the lilianas, I always wanted to be able to cast them even in the worsest mana denial escenarios. But sure you are right to cut 1 swamp for the bojuka bog, since you also recommend to cut 2 hymns and a Liliana. I like a lot that idea. That means you think about the whole deck and just not a part of it in order to recommend to cut something. Nice there.
I always have the maelstrom pulse/Pernicious Deed dilema. I'll just need to make slots for the two of them, since it's not always good choice to cut one.
The tournament is in a couple hours, so just need to figure it out how it'll be, change the sleeves, buy some cigarettes and leave early the office ;)
Originally Posted by damionblackgear
Actually he is correct rock/junk decks are aggro control decks w/c dropping disruption at early turns, sweeping board and when the coast is clear dropping fatties like goyfs, KOTR, terravore are a bomb, but due to meta change the standard list of rock/junk struggles to fight the current meta so players tend to modify the list to adopt to current warfare like cutting hymns, cutting mox d, adding sfm package, add gsz package etc. which today many build existed and i dont know w/c is optimized to battle current meta. As of now i cant decide w/c packages i will include this coming april 22 legacy open, maybe i will adopt damionblackgear build atm but i will tweak it according to the way i played aa rock deck.
Any suggestions?
thanks
What's your list right now?
-Matt
@SheepToken
I played classic Rock for almost 2 years. Despite SDT, you'd get a string of bad top decks and fold to match-ups like UW Stoneblade.
I changed my mentality since then. With inclusion of SFM and GSZ, my deck suddenly plays more of an aggro role. Most of the time, I'm the one dropping threats that my opponent needs to answer, not the other way around (as it was with my classic Rock list).
As Damion said, Nic Fit is more of a "classic Rock" atm. That deck is very fun to play, but games are long and it's slightly inconsistent. It does, however, get a lot more value out of cards like Scavenging Ooze or Liliana than this Rock. And you get to play some cool cards, like Garruk, Primal Hunter (my favorite Planeswalker!) or Titans!
Nic Fit is similar to playing EDH. You get to cast big things very fast, which is fun :P
-Matt
So, It was 3-0-1, just a small tournament.
Some mistakes from me, being the first tournament with the new changes on the deck.
Game1: Weird BR Ascension deck
G1: t1 discard, t2 hymn. I dropped a bob, gets lightned, then blood moon comes into play, even with the Top I didn't get the plains i need to vindicate it.
Side In: 4Leyline, 3Nature's claim, 1Deed
Side out: 4Swords to plowshres, 2Hymns, 2Tops
G2: start with leyline. t1 kosilek, t2 bob, who gets killed but stays enough to make it relevant. A huge terravore via GSZ finish the game so quick.
G3: Don't got the Leyline in opening, but had a nice agroo hand start with bob, tarmo, knigh and terravore, and enough land to play them. He dropped a blood moon, I fetch for a swamp in response, having already a forest in play and a just drawn deed in hand.
he dropped an ascension an start to charge it flashbacking faithless looting, and suspended a gargadon that never comes into play. I played the deed, destroy the 2 enchantments and the next turn drop 2 knights who win the game.
Game2: UB Faeries.
G1: Never have more than 2 lands in play. rush me with bitter tokens, vendilion and a faerie lord.
Side in: 1Deed, 1Damnation
Side out: 2Hymns
G2: Same story. seems lands hate me here. tried a Pernicious and 2 swords, but all gets countered. Rush me with tokens and mutavault.
Game3: Reanimator
G1: win really fast. t1Thoughtseize t2 bob t3 knight 6/6. he mistakes and reanimate a sphinx who gets vindicated. drop another knight and finish him
Side in: 3Extirpate 2Edicts
Side out: 2Hymns 1Deed 2tops
G2: start with entomb t2 thoughtseize for swords and reanimate Iona for white. I have 2 diabolics in hand but 2 fows deals with them. I lose
G3: Keep, he mulls to 5, t1 kosilek gets his animated dead. t2 top, t3 thoughtseize, then bob, t4 GSZ to knight, drop terravore and next turn swing for lethal by destroying 2 duals with 2 wastelands and cracking a fetch +5 to both of them
Game 4: UR Delver
G1: t1 kosilek, i see lightning , chain, price, fireblast, snapcaster, and 2 lands, took the lightning, t2: kosilek + thoughtseize took snapcaster and price. from there it goes easy, wasteland to volcanic, vindicate to basic mountain, he doesn't got another land in a few turns and scooped.
Side in: Nothing, yeah, I know I should side in, but i'm tired by then
G2:he t1 pondered, I t1 kosilek (it's awesome how I still got t1discards on every game) take snapcaster, also leave there a daze, because have enough lands in hand to make it useless, so playing around the daze, drop a tarmo, after hitting it got shuffled by my own fetch in response. receive a couple bolts and a hasty goblin, but when the terravore appears in the board, problem solved, it just needed 2 hits and gg.
I had made some conclusions of it. I side out the 2 hymns so many times, that I'm actually convinced to remove them entirely from the maindeck.
I would like to make slots for 1 or 2 maelstrom pulse, since I noticed I'm not hitting lands often enough :D. I want another qasali on maindeck.
It was a shame i didn't play against maverick or stoneblade, I wanted to test the match. well, that's it, I'll be changing some things in the deck and testing for now.
4 bob
4 kotr
4 tarmo
3 sfm
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
3 vindicate
4 STP
2 liliana of the veil
3 SDT
1 jitte
1 batterskull
2 bayou
3 scrubland
1 swamp
1 forest
1 plains
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 bojuka bog
4 wasteland
thats my initial plan, well any suggestions are welcome :)
congrats with your finish! :) now i will rethink again should i reconsider the slot of hymn to be replace by something else, will you present your list? :)
This is the last list I played. I was thinking of cutting some things. For the next tournament -2 Hymns +1 Maelstrom pulse and staying with 60 for a while.
What do you think about a toolbox sb with enlighted tutor?
/ / Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terravore
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Scavenging ooze
/ / Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares
/ / Sorceries
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inkisition of Kosilek
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
3 Green Sun Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
/ / Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
/ / Artifacts
2 Sensei's Diving Top
/ / Enchantments
1 Pernicious Deed
/ / Lands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka bog
Sideboard:
3 Extirpate
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Nature's claim
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Damnation
1 Gaddock Teeg
Just want to share:
Played at a local Legacy tourney and went 3-0-1
List
3 duress
3 inquisition of kozilek
1 thoughtseize
3 Hymm to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Swords to plowshares
1 pathe to exile
1 GFT
1 Diabolic edict
1 malestrom pulse
2 sensei's divining top
1 life from the Loam
2 jitte
1 batterskull
4 Dark confidant
3 SFM
4 tarmogoyf
2 KOTR
1 eternal witness
4 bayou
2 scrubland
1 savannah
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 forest
1 swamp
1 plains
3 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
4 wasteland
sb
3 extirpate
2 nihil spellbomb
2 path to exile
1 diabolic edict
3 kitchen finks
1 maelstrom pulse
3 pernicious deed
rd 1: UR DELVER- Steve (I know, it sucks)
G1: I treid to disrupt him first while he tried to counter and go agro with delver and snappy. I eventually managed to stick a Goyf, KOTR and Jitte
G2: Similar to G1
2-0
rd 2: Esperblade
G1: It was a long and grinding first game with me disrupting him and him, bouncing my Bob with Jace twice, countering my goyf, removing my KOTR with swords and going to 30 life with his batterskull. I managed to pulse his Jace, land a Liliana and stick Bob to tha table. Fom that point on, I was able to establish a dominant board position with SFM, Bob, a Batterskull of my own, a Liliana and a Goyf holding a Jitte.
G2: We went to time:
1-0
RD 3: MBC
g1: He nabbed my liliana and SFM but got stuck with 2 lands. I was able to recover after.
g2: Same as G1 but he mana flooded this time.
2-0
RD 4: UB ANT
G1: I mulled to 6. My lonesome Hymm wasn't enough and he was able to go off 2 turns after that.
G2: He mulled to 4. My duress and thoughtseize made sure that we won't be able to recover.
G3: We went to time.
1-1-1
I endend up second place winning a good amount of store credit.
There might be some questionable number of cards with the list, so I just made the most of what I have.
Thanks for reading.
Grats on the finishes guys!! A few questions:
Sheep: Why no GSZ acceterater targets? Ie birds of paradise/dryad arbor? With three zeniths you only have your three bullets and then goyf/knight. No spots? Not worth it? I found one birds essential to fix mana and to hold a sword in a ground stall...
Alji: Why only 2 knights? It seems like the best creature in the format right now and they aren't ungodly exoensive...
As for toolbox approaches for us they are good in match ups where you will only get one chance to play a bullet and it has to resolve and has to be fast... Aka combo/dredge/burn/storm, the second piece of hate is not as important as landing a goyf, having some discard, and landing your hate card on turn 2/3. With GSZ main you have discard and teeg against storm, discard and ooze against dredge and your sideboard to help further the matchups.
If you want to sideboard for an interactive matchup, I would stay to 3-4 ofs to ensure you have one or two throughout the game. If you are sudeboarding for non-interactives I would use a tutor plan to ensure turn 2 hate.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
@lavafrogg
About more targets for the GSZ, I think i'ts not worht it. I mean, I want to land threats not accelerate my game. Rock decks have a stablished tempo in the game, and using slots to make it faster will make us lose stability.
It's always the rule : +Speed -Consistency. -Speed + Consistency. And Rock is good in consistency in late game, so it's useless to try to make the game quicker.
Bop seems just good on the opening hand or in a t2 GSZ, but later it'll be a bad draw considering I don't even run equipments, and Dryad will be a land that I cannot get mana of it the turn I play it. I like the GSZ searchs to be more agressive, a real threat if you know what I mean.
My mana sources for white are limited(2 scrubland, 1 savannah and 1 plains) and I do not want put anymore strain on my manabase since it already has other white spells (swords, pte and SFM). I can go for 3 KOTRs but as of now, I don't see the reason of cutting other 3 CMC slots like Liliana, Pulse and Witness.
hmmm about SB package w/ e. tutor, this is my current line-up for the tutor package, well it is good for me
2 E. tutor
1 dueling grounds
1 pernicious deed
1 engineered explosives
3 choke
1 ethersworn canonist
1 stony silence
1 pithing needle
1 circle of protection: red
3 extirpate
in my past list i used 1 tormod's crypt, 1 wheel of sun and moon, 1 grafdigger's cage but since dredge and reanimators are in low quantity and there are increasing numbers of combo decks in our place (high tide is one) i replaced them w/ extirpates, but it depends on you
sir mic de leon (if i'm not mistaken, this is byron, shame on me if you are somebody else) congrats with your finish!, where is legacy tourney taken? eton?
Im posting this here because why the fuck not, the lists are growing closer and closer together anyways; I cut out all of the commentary.:
Creatures: 15
4 Knight of the Reliquary(I finally switched from terravore, I have mixed feelings)
4 Tarmogoyf(don't leave home without him)
4 Dark Confidant(kill this guy now)
3 Qasali Pridemage
Planeswalkers: 3
3 Liliana of the Veil
Spells: 18
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox diamond
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to plowshares
Land: 24
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Wasteland
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Barren Moor
Sideboard: 15
3 Choke
3 Extirpate
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Terravore
Match One: Canadian Thresh with faithful looting.
To set the undertone of this match, we started at table 1 and my opponent had a friend that sat and the end of the table and made hilarious jokes up to and including picking his belly button in the middle of our match. We had a good time until my opponent chased him off for being a distraction.Game one:
A normal game of magic, he was not able to keep tempo up with my deck and I am able to land a knight of the reliquary and kill all of his delver of secrets with plows. I walk right into a 2-1 being that I didn't know forked bold was a real card(isn't fire and ice just better?) I get to see his looting tech but don't think too much of it.
Game two:
This game is a little different as he is able to get a goose down early and I have no real answer to the little bastard. As I play something to block he loots wonder into his graveyard and races me to the finish line. He mulligan's to 5 this game.
Game Three:
I take from his book and things look grim for me as I mulligan to five, unfortunately for him I am able to get a goyf wall down as he snares my bob. Loam starts churning away and soon I have made up for the two card deficit. With loam going he cannot keep up and is one bolt shy of killing me before his own demise(it was the top card...!)
Match Two: Spring Tide with Candles
We joke about this matchup being hard for both of us, I think I mean it a little more than he does.
Game One: He has to force of will a Dark Confidant on turn One and then Forces a Knight on turn Four. This plus a little discard empties his hand and a Lilliana ensures that he never gets sculpt another one before a goyf kills him.
Game Two: We both keep decent hands with mine having early discard and a choke(kind of useless but stops the cantrip fest from happening). I get a Teeg down and extirpate ponders just to see his hand. With choke limiting his resources and me tapped out he takes a chance and hits all needed pieces to combo all over my face.
Game Three: An early goyf is met with teeg and choke. He cannot get there this time and I take a match from combos evil hands.
Match Three: Canadian Threshold
Game One: Early loam and huge knight send him packing before anything can get going for anyone, I believe it was a 7/7 with loam active...
Game Two: Some times the magic gods think that you deserve to lose a game. I draw all of my cycle lands after a 2 land 1 cycle land hand and die to a goyf and a goose with 2 deeds in hand. A timely wasteland from him ensured that my cycle lands were one turn too late.
Game Three: He keeps a land light hand and is quickly wastelanded out of the game. He however lets me run threat after threat after threat into a daze/force/snare counter wall and I look like a jackass every time he counters something. I get crypt'ed twice and had to lose a loam and 2 cycle lands to save 2 cycle lands and my nantuko monastery(it was my only win con at the moment and it had been submerged....). Eventually I land a knight that he cannot answer and ride it to victory.
Match Three: Reanimator
Apparently this is a pseudo good matchup because my opponent, who is on the source, was not really happy to see me.
Game One: He gets a early Iona on white and I get an early Liliana....so good....
Game Two: I start with a turn one bob that draws into swords for his first reanimated fatty and the GSZ into Ooze for all future fatties.
I went 4-0 and got 50 in vendor credit. I picked up a scavenging ooze and a recurring nightmare for shits and giggles. Now that my Ooze count is up to three I might switch them in and out with pridemages depending on what I see. They both have uses in multiple match-ups.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Thanks, and yup it's in Eton every sundays. Just call me Mike BTW :)sir mic de leon (if i'm not mistaken, this is byron, shame on me if you are somebody else
I'm back home today. I'll be uploading videos tonight and give the link as soon as they're done.
-Edit- Looks like it's going to be a long one. Upload speed is terrible. -/Edit-
Last edited by damionblackgear; 04-17-2012 at 09:32 PM. Reason: upload speed
Tinkering with some crafting theory. Here
nice one sir mike!, wow still eton handle small legacy tourney every sunday, hoping for every sunday they will run legacy game so that i can play :), will you use your rock for this coming 22?
nice finish there!! btw, is it 4 mox d is overkill? i know 24 lands is good in combination w/ this 4 mox d, but it will happened that your opening hand is maybe having 2-3 mox d w/ a lone land or maybe 2, i think replacing one of the mox d w/ sensei's divining top and also 4 Life from the loam hmmm
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote