Summary? fucking thing is 20000000000000 words long. TL, DROriginally Posted by frogczar
"Want all, lose all."
Just imagine if you had to read the entire dissertation XD
In the opinion of the game designers, yes.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Blue has one thing going for it that all the other colors are far behind in: consistency. Therefor, when it comes to long, drawn out tournament settings, traditional blue design will have a higher chance of performing better than e.g. a color like red that is traditionally built around chaos and unreliability.
If you really want to weaken blue, print cards to promote consistency in other colors. And, if you still care about flavor, try not to violate the color wheel while doing so.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I have a fine-tuned eye for game balance, and I would say that the problem with blue is merely that it has broken cards, that more of them are printed in every set, and that no proper hoser for these cards are printed outside of blue.
Every time a set is spoiled, I rate the entire set using R&D's metric to know which color I should play at the prerelease. In every set, blue is filled with plenty of mediocre cards, and then some bathshit insasely crazy rare cards that are either 4.0, 4.5 and 5.0 in the scale and which are the ones that break constructed. The worst color is usually black (though many times it is green), and you will be hard pressed to see a playable black deck in modern, extended, or standard. Even in legacy black is non-existent outside combo decks that rely on old cards from Mirage/Tempest/Urza's Saga era.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Blue is the most popular color. WoTC is a business that wants to sell packs. They know that tournament players are more likely to draft and buy packs if they're getting cards they want.
Does blue get a little more love than other colors? Sure, but it's not as bad as all the whiners and complainers who swear brainstorm raped their first born would like to think.
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I wouldn't say a "little more love". I would say blue is the spoiled child by a shot so long it bypasses the Earth's curvature, and I would still be too generous. Most of the problems we have with power escalation is because WotC is trying to make all the other colors as good as blue, while the game would be a lot better if blue was just toned down of its most broken cards.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Maverick is the DTB right now and it doesn't play blue.
Even if blue is the best color why should we sacrifice much of the formats enjoyability (casting Brainstorm namely) just so that all the colors are equally good? It's not like blue is breaking the format, it's as diverse as ever.
Maverick seems DTB because there are a lot of different deck names for what's basically the same Blue Tempo strategy. Blue tempo decks outnumber Maverick's results by 3:1.
Moreover, blue tempo decks would beat Maverick if they weren't so busy trying to beat each other, because there are plenty of tools to crush Maverick.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
There are plenty of tools to beat anything in Legacy, lol. If you want to beat Brainstorm play Chains of Mephistopheles. If you want to beat Tempo, play more lands. The later will result in your losing in long-drawn out games. That's the way it is and it's pretty good that way.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
No one said anything about removing (ban) Brainstorm. Is the format really diverse when we can essentially boil the format down to Blue tempo (UG/r Tempo, UW/x Stoneblade) and anti-Blue (Burn, Maverick)? (hurpy-derps need not apply - Dredge/Show and Tell)
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What about combo (show and tell, tes/ant), Lands and Zenith/Explorer Rock?
I think there is diversity, but there will always be best decks. If g/w and u/w and rug weren't the best other decks would be.
EDIT - your ninja edit made me look foolish! Curse you!
Last edited by Snap_Keep; 04-18-2012 at 04:03 PM. Reason: addressing ninja edit
There aren't any tools to beat blue tempo. That's why it has been the best deck for so long. People have to settle with attacking the other parts of the deck which aren't the blue shell.
In fact, Cavern of Souls is 120$ a playset on ebay right now because it's the first playable card that truly hoses blue tempo's strategy, even if Drew Levin has written that article saying it's not so hot (hint: Drew Levin is wrong).
I'm going to buy a box of Avacyn Restored soon because I know that after the first printing of the set, the most expensive cards will become almost impossible to get from boosters. It happened with Living Death, it happened with Tarmogoyf, and it happened with Jace, The mind sculptor.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
How long does Delver exist?
Canadian got COMPLETELY outclassed by nearly every Survival variant and was mediocre to good and ridiculously hard to play in between the banning of Survival and the printing of Delver.
Canadian got outclassed by other blue tempo and blue combo decks.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Canadian ain't that hot against decks playing enough lands and big dudes, lol. You're so fixated on free counters being evil, it's not even funny. Still I lol. lol.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Did you play during Vengevine Survival? The top decks were not blue....
Yes I did. In fact, I probably have been playing this game for a longer time than you.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
To be fair, there have been very few periods during Legacy's history (since the lists were split, anyway) when the format wasn't reducible to best deck X, hate decks for deck X, and combo outliers. Most of Legacy's much-touted diversity lies in Tier Two decks with slim chances of winning large tournaments or relic decks that were obsoleted years ago but which people continue to play because they can't afford to stay abreast of price increases.
And yet your posts on this page of the thread are full of sh*t so none should care about that in this argumentation ... at least I do not.
Canadian losing to other tempo decks and to combo decks? The heck are you talking about? Resolved Survival on an even board was gg 90+% of the time for the Canadian player. Generally before Delver the lower thread density (9 creatures) made the deck easy to hate, easy to outclass with bigger dudes and therefore very hard to play PROPERLY. After the banning of Survival the position in the metagame of the deck got better but was always incredibly far from todays popularity/strength/whatever.
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