Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[Tammit67]

I admit that I'm not the best deck builder in the world, but a Food Chain list I came up with that took use of the Griffin got usually kills on turn 4 or 5 if I ran both FoW and Misdirection as protection and about a turn earlier if I didn't run protection at all. And that pretty much sucks for a combo deck.

Yeah but it is a combo deck that

a) Has protection
b) Has a beatdown backup plan

So you know, actually doesn't suck that bad

[Awaclus]

Keep in mind while building Griffin Chain combo decks that the Griffin is a perfect fine pitch for Chrome Mox ;)

I already took notice of that.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah but it is a combo deck that

a) Has protection
b) Has a beatdown backup plan

So you know, actually doesn't suck that bad

See, this doesn't sound shitty at all. It's probably only a Tier 2 strategy at best, but it sounds solid. "Oh, you pwned my combo in an unexpected way? I guess I'll just beat you down with these Owls that I've been countering your shit with." In a weird way it draws comparison to Squadron Hawk in this way; Force this, MisD that, then come at you with a couple of owls in the mid-to-late game. Seems neat. I won't say OP or unfair, just neat. It might actually lead to the first somewhat-playable aggro-control-combo deck. Just play Tangle Wire and it's EVERY ARCHETYPE EVAR

[Barook]

I admit that I'm not the best deck builder in the world, but a Food Chain list I came up with that took use of the Griffin got usually kills on turn 4 or 5 if I ran both FoW and Misdirection as protection and about a turn earlier if I didn't run protection at all. And that pretty much sucks for a combo deck.

Do you mind posting a list?

[TsumiBand]

Keep in mind while building Griffin Chain combo decks that the Griffin is a perfect fine pitch for Chrome Mox ;)

As a side note, Chrome Mox quits producing mana if the exiled card is no longer exiled. Depending on the application, this may be no better than Lotus Petal (except it puts your Owl in exile for you)

[joemauer]

If you guys want to abuse the griffen, I would put him in a planar void U/B control deck.

I don't think planar void sucks on it's own. Making tarmogofy,oozes, and knights of reliquary laughable. Invalidates decks like dredge and reanimator. Stops loam engines. Gives esperblade the finger. Keeps nimble mongoose, nimble.

All the while you get a 3/3 flier that keeps coming back no matter what. Unless people start using the one mana mega wrath of god.

[AndyTron]

Speaking of ooze, he works really well with the owl too.

[bruizar]

Meanwhile, I'm pretty excited about Grislebrand's Scroll. Another 1CC artifact adding new utility to Artificer's Intuition. Not long before that card is so powercreeped that it becomes a deck.

[Barook]

Meanwhile, I'm pretty excited about Grislebrand's Scroll. Another 1CC artifact adding new utility to Artificer's Intuition. Not long before that card is so powercreeped that it becomes a deck.

How is that better than exisitng discard artifacts?

You're unlikely to run demons in such kind of deck.

Edit:


Any ways to abuse this?

[bruizar]

In such kind of deck, you'd play mutavault over mishra's factory and reuse Grislebrand until you win, either by slow rolling or by going infinite. Basically, you have your win-condition wrapped up in a tutorable reusable discard effect

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

How is that better than exisitng discard artifacts?

You're unlikely to run demons in such kind of deck.

Edit:


Any ways to abuse this?

No.

[John Cox]

Goblin Recruiter

[I am the brainwasher]

Any ways to abuse this?

Since Elves could just cast Biorhythm when they start to fart out mana (which they also won't anyway), I think this is quite unplayable, in both Legacy and every other format.
Big-ass Genesis Wave here is not the most horrible design I've seen so far in this set though.

[frogczar]

How is that better than exisitng discard artifacts?

You're unlikely to run demons in such kind of deck.

Edit:


Any ways to abuse this?

Elves. Easily get to the mana and then dump nearly your entire deck without needing tricks? Seems decent.

[Kich867]

Elves. Easily get to the mana and then dump nearly your entire deck without needing tricks? Seems decent.

Except 1/5th of their deck aren't permanents (GSZ, Pact, Glimpse) and the likelihood of it doing useful things is slim.

Genesis Wave for that casting cost would likely be better.

[Tao]

I am interested to see if Brainstorm will survive the Miracle mechanic. I honestly think this topic deserves its own thread but I am not sure if the Mods would survive that.

LSV argued that Brainstorm will probably get banned, and in my opinion a UW deck based on Brainstorm + a few Scroll Racks to support the new Wrath, Time Walk and Entreat the Angels (all in numbers from 0-4 since I don't want to argue on how good they are) seems awfully strong.

[Freggle]

How is that better than exisitng discard artifacts?

You're unlikely to run demons in such kind of deck.

Edit:


Any ways to abuse this?

Enchantress

[I am the brainwasher]

Enchantress

When you have the luxury to reach that much mana you are either winning already, or if this is topdecked, you could also cast Replenish, which would have basically the same effect against decks were you rely heavily on the strength of a single situational card, which sems much more doable than trying to get primal.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I am interested to see if Brainstorm will survive the Miracle mechanic. I honestly think this topic deserves its own thread but I am not sure if the Mods would survive that.

LSV argued that Brainstorm will probably get banned, and in my opinion a UW deck based on Brainstorm + a few Scroll Racks to support the new Wrath, Time Walk and Entreat the Angels (all in numbers from 0-4 since I don't want to argue on how good they are) seems awfully strong.

I think we should operate on the assumption that this is a direct assault on Brainstorm and likely Top. The costing of Miracle cards that we've seen only makes remote sense if there's not a cheap and easy way to manipulate the top of your deck, and certainly not to swap them back. If it had just been Temporal Mastery I don't think it would be a problem, but there's rapidly becoming a critical mass of these spells. UW certainly seems ridiculous with these cards. I was also shocked at how much Flores missed the boat with why a single mana Wrath is so strong. It's not that you want to cast it turn two; it's that when you do cast it, you can then also be the first to take a move, and/or keep counter magic open for their next drop. Going Wrath, Jace in the same turn just became perfectly feasible.

And it's not like any single card in this setup being banned would necessarily solve the problem (although Terminus is probably the most powerful of the Miracle cards, the others in conjunction still represent a serious threat.)

I'm revising my previous estimate. Previously I estimated a 1% chance that either Brainstorm and/or Top would be banned as fallout from TM. As fallout from all these Miracle cards? I put it at 70%.

On the plus side, these cards make Judge Unworthy totes playable.

[Leftconsin]

I'd still much rather play Genesis Wave over that in Elves. Genesis Wave for 5 is usually going to put you far enough ahead for you to win. And then you aren't running into problems with flipping something you really don't want to see like a redundant Cradle, a Green Sun's Zenith, another one of the spell you're resolving, or any utility spells you have. Primal Surge demands you build around it far too much to profit from it, and I don't want to build around a 10 mana sorcery.