Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[Smea.gol.lum]

While the new miracle mechanic is somehow retarded because it doesn't award tight play and makes the skill-format shift into a 'Ooops, look what i've just topdecked'-format, it still provides an awful lot of options for new decks.

Here's my new untested idea :) :
4 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Fireblast
4 Erratic Explosion
2 Wheel of Fate
4 Seething Song
4 Terminus
4 Reforge the Soul
4 Rift Bolt
4 Runeflare Trap
15 lands

[baghdadbob]

I don't get it... So what are you protesting?

[TorpidNinja]

I don't get it... So what are you protesting?

Clearly that mock-up Reforge decks aren't playing enough Runeflare Trap.

[Lord Seth]

Noxious Revival + Snapcaster Mage makes the discard strategy not so great depending on which miracles they are using. I don't see a lot of heavy discard working too well vs the tempo miracle decks, though probably would fair better against the controlling versions.

I think Bowvamp was trying to say that the Miracle cards might work well in a deck that requires you to discard things as you have fodder for it if they end up in your hand, not that discard decks would be effective against miracle decks.

[joven]

Elves combo would rather play Recycle than this card. In fact, they would probably play Primordial Sage instead of Recycle. So it won't see play in that deck.

EDIT: I just noticed you didn't read the card properly, it's much worse than what you imagine.

Soul of the Harvest seems to be a new and better version of Primordial Sage.

[matunos]

Noxious Revival + Snapcaster Mage makes the discard strategy not so great depending on which miracles they are using. I don't see a lot of heavy discard working too well vs the tempo miracle decks, though probably would fair better against the controlling versions.

Except for random discard, the solution is to not make them discard the miracle if you can see that gives them a path to casting it. Unless the miracle isn't all that great and you're happy to let them waste their time on it. Otherwise, take the Snapcaster.

Vendilion Clique still does the job though, and at instant speed.

[Vacrix]

4 Erratic Explosion

Seriously... why hasn't someone put this into a deck with SnT and Emrakul. Its like Draco Explosion all over again except you can actually win with Draco (now Emrakul). Love this card.

[joven]

Seriously... why hasn't someone put this into a deck with SnT and Emrakul. Its like Draco Explosion all over again except you can actually win with Draco (now Emrakul). Love this card.

Erratic Explosion with Emrakul in deck seems pretty random unless you manipulate your library first.

[Vacrix]

Thats the idea. Thats the entire idea behind Draco Explosion. You find Draco, put it ontop, likely with Lim-Dul's Vault, and then kill them with Flame Rift and Erratic Explosion. Hilarious, but it worked. I wouldn't say it was ever a particularly competitive deck but with Emrakul and SnT you have an option that is 2 mana cheaper than Sneak Attack. You could run burn as reach spells and potentially as removal to slow down really aggressive aggro decks.

[Oiolosse]

Damn, had they had the fucking balls to cost the Mad Prophet at 1R, analogous to Looter, we'd have another fun card in red.

EDIT:

Thats the idea. Thats the entire idea behind Draco Explosion. You find Draco, put it ontop, likely with Lim-Dul's Vault, and then kill them with Flame Rift and Erratic Explosion. Hilarious, but it worked. I wouldn't say it was ever a particularly competitive deck but with Emrakul and SnT you have an option that is 2 mana cheaper than Sneak Attack. You could run burn as reach spells and potentially as removal to slow down really aggressive aggro decks.

Thanks, sounds fun to brew.

[luckme10]

Look, I'm pretty shell shocked from this set. But what do you guys think will be the implications of this card?




Between this and Terminus, it's not very often we get the unstoppable force and the immovable object in one set. Do you think some human/maverick deck can capitalize on such a thing? What about classic tribes like merfolk and goblins?

[DragoFireheart]

Between those two cards, the new meta will be:

U/W Miracle
Goblins
Dredge
Storm
Sneak Attack

[lordofthepit]

Look, I'm pretty shell shocked from this set. But what do you guys think will be the implications of this card?




Between this and Terminus, it's not very often we get the unstoppable force and the immovable object in one set. Do you think some human/maverick deck can capitalize on such a thing? What about classic tribes like merfolk and goblins?

Terminus will help control decks more than Cavern of Souls helps aggro decks. The decks that benefit most strongly from Cavern of Souls are those that saw minimal play to begin with (e.g. Slivers), although Goblins is a Tier 2/3 deck that might get stronger.

Edit: I should clarify that I don't think creature-based decks like Maverick, Merfolk, and Elves don't benefit much from Cavern at all.

Also, Terminus isn't super exciting as a Miracle card. In most cases, when you need a sweeper effect, you don't care if it costs 4 mana vs. 1 mana, but 6 mana might be too much, so I'd prefer to have Wrath of God as the more consistent effect. Still, Terminus is pretty decent.

[(nameless one)]

Is Cavern of Souls really going to propel Goblins to DtB again?

Think about it, Goblins didn't get pushed down because of permission, it got pushed down because of power creep in creatures.

Tarmogoyf was the start. Now we have a plethora of creatures that even outclasses Tarmogoyf. Not to mention Batterskull.

I mean with that logic, shouldn't Goblins ripping the current meta a new hole that blue sees minimal play and Storm combo is at all time low?

[dontbiteitholmes]

Is Cavern of Souls really going to propel Goblins to DtB again?

Think about it, Goblins didn't get pushed down because of permission, it got pushed down because of power creep in creatures.

Tarmogoyf was the start. Now we have a plethora of creatures that even outclasses Tarmogoyf. Not to mention Batterskull.

I mean with that logic, shouldn't Goblins ripping the current meta a new hole that blue sees minimal play and Storm combo is at all time low?

I don't see Goblins being top tier, but at the same time every blue deck now has 4 less answers for turn 1 Lackey or turn 4 Ringleader, so I wouldn't be completely shocked if Goblins went up to at least tier 1.5.

[Vacrix]

Cavern seems really good with Piledriver and Matron in particular. Perhaps we'll see goblin list with more Piledrivers? Especially with UR Delver getting Vexing Devil, I'd expect it to be heavily played.

[matunos]

Cavern seems really good with Piledriver and Matron in particular. Perhaps we'll see goblin list with more Piledrivers? Especially with UR Delver getting Vexing Devil, I'd expect it to be heavily played.

I don't see Vexing Devil getting into U/R Delver, FWIW. Or, if it does, I don't see it being that fantastic.

[Vacrix]

I see it being a staple. Its often going to be 4 to the dome because you have countermagic to protect it from removal. Why wouldn't they play it? UR Delver is a burn deck that plays blue for a countersuite; its not really a control deck.

[dahcmai]

Seriously... why hasn't someone put this into a deck with SnT and Emrakul. Its like Draco Explosion all over again except you can actually win with Draco (now Emrakul). Love this card.

I did. There's a list in the old Aeon Bridge thread. It was an interesting deck, but I abandoned it after running into a few odd problems with it. It was a little slower than you would think and got ate up by combo.

[Que]

~Outwit U
Instant Uncommon
Counter target spell that targets a player.

Would that see play? sb etc

Its another form of Dispel and Spell Pierce. Its undercosted so thats always good. meh idk.