For those mongoose haters out there, i have a feeling that porphory nodes is the shit in the current meta.
Porphyry nodes does seem really techy, the only problem is how susceptible it is to qasali pridemage I feel. If it sticks and kills 2 or more dudes, it's great assuming you aren't facing burn or lethal damage.
You could take a leaf out of tempo thresh's book and run forked bolt, as fire//ice looks terrible when you're facing a thalia. 3 mana for a 2 for 1 is alright, but if you're on the draw it's really slow and they could land a knight. While forked bolt just costs 1R sure it's a sorcery but it's still really great against maverick's surplus of X/1's and it's an answer to turn 1 mom, as mom is a major pain if you lack EE in your hand and they untap with it.
EE is really great in the current metagame right now, I'd probably be running with 3 if I were to run this deck. I love how it kills anything relevant sans batterskull.
Vindicate is just a really solid card, that is live in any matchup. That's why it's still run as a sort of flex slot in UWb lists. It's only really weak against combo and it's not spectacular against tempo but it can randomly hose them.
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Originally Posted by Vacrix
EE not destroying the skull itself is still a great card against germ tokens. Saves you a turn, and forces them to bounce batterskull in which you have a second shot at dealing with it by counterspell. I've pulled that off on opponents and have opponents pull that off on me, not a good feeling :P
Decks that I care about:
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Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
*swoon* This is exactly what I've been looking for to beat dumb creature decks.
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Shhh, don't tell anyone. I bought two Russian ones prior to the GP, but I haven't even tried them out yet. I've been toying with Lingering Souls to some success, but I am unhappy with the numbers of my current list. However, Lingering Souls t3 into Jace or Humility turn 4 is a really good feeling.
"Attack with Order of the Ebon Hand."
"K, block with Jotun Grunt?"
"It has pro white."
"Swords?"
"It still has pro white."
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE Team RTD
Twitter: @shawnldewey
Hey guys,
I'v been toying around we ''Devastating Tide'' and I came up with this list:
Instant:(20)
4*Swords to Plowshares
4*Force Of Will
4*Spell Snare
4*Brainstorm
4*Counterspell
Enchantment:(5)
4*Standstill
1*Humility
Plainswalker:(4)
2*Elspeth
2*Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifact:(4)
4*Sensei's Divining Top
Sorcery:(4)
++++++++++4*Devastating Tide+++++++++++++
Land:(23)
4*Tundra
4*Mishra's Factory
2*Wasteland
3*Islands
1*Plains
9*Fetch
Devastating Tide
Sorcery 3UU
Return all nonland permanents to their owners' hands.
Miracle 1U
I think this card can replace Wrath of God in this deck.
-Can be easily cast for its miracle cost during the opponents turn.
-Can be pitched to force of will.
-Takes care of any permanent that did not get countered (not only creatures).
-5 mana to return all permanents ( if not cast for it's miracle cost ) it's fine
Last edited by Kaslan; 04-20-2012 at 12:38 AM.
I honestly think Terminus is the better solution, especially if you're looking to win with non-land permanents, i.e. Planeswalkers. Bouncing a walker after +1ing it a bunch is a terrible loss of tempo.
For reference, this is Terminus:
One mana, slightly-better-than-WoG. If your list runs SDT, you can pretty much always Miracle it. Unlike Devastating Tide, it leaves the permanents you need on the table, and just removes one of the most common threats - creatures.
Don't get me wrong, Devastating Tide is good, but should probably be in the SB, not in the MD. Terminus solves a big problem that constantly occurs without hosing you in any way. Moreover, there are other good ways to hose most non-creature threats, i.e. Spell Pierce, Oblivion Ring, etc., etc.
I honestly think Terminus is the better solution, especially if you're looking to win with non-land permanents, i.e. Planeswalkers. Bouncing a walker after +1ing it a bunch is a terrible loss of tempo.
For reference, this is Terminus:
One mana, slightly-better-than-WoG. If your list runs SDT, you can pretty much always Miracle it. Unlike Devastating Tide, it leaves the permanents you need on the table, and just removes one of the most common threats - creatures.
Don't get me wrong, Devastating Tide is good, but should probably be in the SB, not in the MD. Terminus solves a big problem that constantly occurs without hosing you in any way. Moreover, there are other good ways to hose most non-creature threats, i.e. Spell Pierce, Oblivion Ring, etc., etc.
I agree that 1 mana Wrath effect is very good but when you cant cast it at it miracle cost 6 mana is a lot.
You say that bouncing your permanents is bad(Planeswalkers) if you're ahead on the board just don't play Devastating Tide and keep it in hand, brainstorm it away or pitch it to force of will.
If you're Not ahead on the board, you should not play your win con (Planeswalkers) until you stabilize.
Devastating Tide adds a new dimension to this deck. Normally this deck lost to Vial ( you needed to 2 for 1 your self in your opponents turn or lost the game) but now you have a turn 3-4-5 out to Vial, Enchantress, goblins if you have a top you can even blow out a hive mind player in response of him playing a pact ( magical Christmas land )
Devastating Tide deals with any permanent. That's why I think it's a 4 of in this deck.
Terminatedamn you Wizards, you're making the sky fall.
I anticipate a ban guys..
You will never be casting it for a cost other than the Miracle cost. Trust me. I've been testing a list with 4 Brainstorm, 3 SDT, and 2 JTMS, and the chances of not being able to play it for its miracle cost are essentially zero.
The fact is, bouncing a walker is bad for us in nearly every case. Terminus lets you react to a threat played after your walker without losing all that tempo. Trust me when I say that's an important aspect of the card.
Many mid-range decks will play out threats after you play a walker. See above.
It's a sorcery. You can't use it during the other player's turn. Moreover, Vial is no longer a significant enough part of the meta to make winning or losing against a viable argument, at least for the moment.
It deals with all permanents. That's a problem for us. It makes it more of a SB card against decks where we need to actually deal with a large number of non-creature permanents.
Most important of all, bouncing is not a real removal mechanic, so you cannot actually stabilize the board by playing Devastating Tides, you can simply delay. Playing 4 MD means you have less actual answers, meaning delaying is less powerful. I could see one or two, but four simply isn't a good option.
''It's a sorcery. You can't use it during the other player's turn. Moreover, Vial is no longer a significant enough part of the meta to make winning or losing against a viable argument, at least for the moment.''
Miracle can be cast any time you draw a card... With brainstorm and top you can draw a card during the opponents turn
Fair enough. All of my other points stand, though.
I think that both are good in this deck but Devastating Tide has a wider rage of application and make this deck more flexible.
Devastating Tide gives you more room not to counter every spell that your opponent plays.
If they ban something... I think it will be topTerminate
I anticipate a ban guys..
I think you should run both and cut swords to plowshares... see what happens when you run 8 low casting cost sweepers that have potential discounted casting costs.
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever run less than 4 Swords to Plowshares in this deck. Devastating Tide is a way worse answer to non creatures than EE or Vindicate, and way worse at killing creatures than WOG/Terminus. It will not see constructed play.
"Attack with Order of the Ebon Hand."
"K, block with Jotun Grunt?"
"It has pro white."
"Swords?"
"It still has pro white."
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE Team RTD
Twitter: @shawnldewey
I agree on running 4 Plows.
As for your views on Devastating Tide ... can you tell me why it's ''Way Worse and will not see constructed play'' ?
I tested Devastating Tide, EE and Wrath ... and from my testing Devastating Tide was better in almost every case
For a stage three control deck, you are better off just answering the cards instead of setting them back a few turns. This deck can't take care of the time advantage created because of our glacial clock. Mana curves are so low in Legacy anyway, so most can just crap out their hand again while we have to dig for more answers. It's better just to answer those cards right away.
Also, our win-conditions are planeswalker-based, and this doesn't play well with those.
Terminus is exciting, but I am unsure if it is better than Wrath against Canadian. Stifle is a house versus both of those cards, but less so against WOG in that you can Stifle the Miracle trigger and Stifle fetches to prevent us from getting to 4 mana in time.
Against most else it seems really sweet, with absurd power plays of 1 cc WOG + Sstill or permission backup. However, it can force the player into awkwardly timed Brainstorms (more important) and awkward Jace activations (less important since you can Jacestorm every turn) and the situations where you cast Terminus maybe a turn early because you Miracled it and can't cast it otherwise. Instant speed WOG via Brainstorm or Top is pretty cute, though.
"Attack with Order of the Ebon Hand."
"K, block with Jotun Grunt?"
"It has pro white."
"Swords?"
"It still has pro white."
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE Team RTD
Twitter: @shawnldewey
You can also use a Decree of Justice + Lingering Souls kill. Planeswalkers aren't so good right now thanks to Lingering Souls and other creatures like Snapcaster Mage, Clique, that put pressure on them.
Finaly decided this week to build a 'fair' legacy deck, as my friend says. I went for Landstill after proxy testing it. I was looking through the pages and couldn't find a good sideboard for a UW version. I know sideboard are meta dependent, but can anyone give me a 'primer' idea? What is our bad/worst match up. I tested against TES which I crushed, RDW gave me trouble since main deck I had no way to gain life, Affinity was a joke and Esper Stoneblade was fine until they get some Spirits token online.
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