I have been really liking percy. There are some games where you can drop him turn 2, but you have to remember. This is a control deck, we cant afford to have our few threats eat stps. I only drop him when I know the coast is clear of stps, or if I am baiting for a prime titan.Originally Posted by Kich867
I have had the problem of drawing alot. Just this weekend at a 1k legacy event I scrubbed out with 0-2-2. The first loss was to a friend so I didn't mind that, but then I drew twice to matches I should have won. And then lost a forth round I lost to my own mistakes since I was just dicking around and playing for fun at that point.
When AVR comes out, I think I will splash white for Sigarda, StpS and maybe baneslayer/sun titan. It will be nice being able to just aggressively drop sigarda and give my opponent a non-interactive 4 turn clock. I would like to have the rector package at some point but I dont see myself investing in a moat in the relatively near future and thats what makes that build the nuts.
Also, I have been trying a maindeck Night of Soul's Betreyal (dropping to 1 prime hunter). I have really liked it so far. It wins the game against Esper, mav, delver RUG and random vial decks. I would suggest everyone give it a try if you haven't.
@Massacre: yeah in the matches we bring it in against, plague wind for 0 mana is pretty good.
EDIT: @starscream: My two losses at that tourney were to MUD (with no basics) and goblins :/
Has anyone played against welder decks recently?
They can use the explorer ramp better than we can. Sac effects and damnation aren't that great (wurmcoil), and mindslaver recursion sux.
Also I like massacre (instead of damnation) , but even if it isn't winning tournaments, Merfolk is still played, and is difficult to deal with.
I went 3-1-2 at a local tourney with 40 peeps losing a nail biter to RUg, and Sneek & Show. Beating RUG, a crazy U/B, and I forget the other, and drawing with Esperblade with Jace's.
However I did split first with in the side event for a Library(we took cash).
I agree, for one--hymn to tourach makes spell snare a real card against this deck. It's otherwise completely dead. I don't enjoy the double black requirement sometimes, primarily on the first two-three turns when you really want to hit it but can't realistically. It's kind of sketchy to go say, swamp cabal therapy, forest explorer flashback cabal therapy, grab 2 swamps into hymn. That's a powerful play, but I really don't enjoy being low on forests that early.
I've rarely gotten mileage out of it and almost always wished it was just duress.
@ Star|Scream
What kind of welder deck is it. I remember from about a year ago a welder reanimator deck.
How much grave yard hate are you running? It sounds like not enough, an active ooze should be a solid pounding.
That card seems SO AWESOME! Instant getting rid of lot's of stuff, seems like it also gets rid of a lot!
EDIT: read your post better, you play one in the MB. Still, would you play more? It seems like solving quiet some troubles.
It is legendary and a 4drop, so I don't really care if I see it in my opening hand, and I dont care if only see one all game. So I think one is the right number. It is easy to find with 3 tops and shuffling. I maindeck because it hoses more of the meta than massacre, but to a lesser degree. It is even decent against dredge or goblin tokens.
welder -> metalworker -> wurmcoil or kudoltha, kudoltha -> trample 11/11 infect or they play steel hellkite, or they play mindslaver.
Very difficult to deed them out. The welder doesn't even have to be activated for them to put something scary out turn 3.
Yeah, I think against MUD we just scoop. Of course there is small chance in discard metalworker/grim monolith, kill welder and set fast clock in that case we should play some aggressive creatures but we donīt so itīs very bad MU, on the other hand only few people play MUD so itīs a small chance to get paired with it.
Anyway, some thoughts about the question "how to dodge f*cking draws"? Only creatures that comes to my mind are Percy, Tombstalker (both get StP) and dungrove elder. I think we need to have some faster creatures to fight combo anyway because after all the discard we have, we canīt manage a good clock to beat them. Sadly, add 4X Tarmogoyf is not the right answer for us due to the deed and so on. We just need some card that says "you have just lost" itīs only the primal titan, garruk vol.3 and maybe kodama with thrun.
@Sigarda yes, she looks really nice, Iīm looking forward to some test results (I donīt have money for Moat too..):-)
Z.
Garruk drawing 3 or more cards *should* make your opponent scoop, but there are some that just want to fight through the lock no matter what.
Question: Say if someone at my upkeep bolts veteran explorer and I add two lands, can I still play my land for the turn? Or does the triggered effect count towards the one land drop per turn rule?
You're not playing the lands, you're putting them into play, so they do NOT count.
-Matt
In the Hymn vs. Duress debate, I think Duress is way better for all the reasons RaNDoMxGeSTuReS listed.
I don't think Night of Soul's Betrayal is what we want main deck, as it makes our Explorers not able to block, blanks Hermit Druid, and really slows down Grave Titan/Primeval Titan + Treetop Village. It does not help us do what we need to do, which is "Win Faster". Dread of Night answers everything we have a problem with, fits our curve a lot better, and works in multiples. There are corner cases where NoSB is better, but overall Dread of Night is where we want to be.
Also, two crazy ideas:
If you run Primeval Titan, you could splash 1 Kessig Wolf-Run and 1 Mountain for maximum lolz.
If you hate your threats getting answered by StP, Asceticism is a card that makes your Grave Titan really stick.
So I've been trying to work Sigarda into this deck, but I could use some help for the mana.
I really don't want to hard cast her.
I don't want to run rector,
I *think* I would rather run innocent blood over STP.
I will probably main deck 1 pridemage, though.
So with all that being said I really don't need much white, but I do want the ability to hardcast her, and *possibly* sideboard Leyline of Sanctity
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
7 Fetch
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Utility
So I have 2 slots left. I could leave that as is and use primeval as my second finisher, and put in 2 treetops.
I could make grave titan my second finisher and add a scrubland (which I don't own, and would rather not purchase if there are other options)
I could do 2 plains and add another fetch.
I just don't want to be sitting on a plains when I need green, but I do want the ability to late-game hardcast Sigarda.
Any thoughts would really be helpful!
@ 1337erhosen: Dense Foliage is cheaper for the same effect. However, it doesn't do as much as Asceticism. However if you all just run Sigrada, that problem is mitigated.
@Star Scream: You don't want to hard cast Sigrada, but you'll hardcast titan? I've never really had an issue getting double white. I play more control, so I'm not steaming with 5 mana on turn three and only 1 white mana. Here's my land base:
5 fetches
3 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Plans
4 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
My list is similar to one of the lists on page 38
Add 1 more plains I think 22 is the correct number for a 3 colour deck, also I would contemplate -1 bayou +1 scrubland. If you are going white you would also splash Elspeth, Knight-Errant for flying thruns. I run 22 but am currently splashing red for broodmate dragon, 1 of the reasons being is that if I get perished I still have at least 1 beater on the board.
Also why are people still running deranged Hermit, 10 mana only to see him die to every single piece of removal, and tree of redemption in the board is a house against RUg.
Yeah, in all my icarnations, I've always run 22 lands.
I really feel strongly about Sigrada. However, in building the deck, I don't have the room for Baneslayer, the rector package, Sun Titan, Liliana, etc. I really love cheating Moat into play, but I think I can be satiated by playing Enduring Ideal in Modern. I'd love to see some lists with Sigrada if people are testing her.
Let me rephrase. I'm hoping to not have to hard-cast Sigarda, because I need GG for garruk & witness, and I need BB for lily and maybe grave titan. However I want the ability to, so I will try 22 lands with 8 basics.
Been a little since I've posted here. I've continued to do well with my list, placing highly in several local tournaments, although nothing major to report.
Things I'm thinking about:
-Scavenging Ooze is coming out. Don't get me wrong, the card is absolutely amazing. However, I increasingly feel that for the direction my list is going, I don't want it. It takes multiple green mana to use efficiently, and it's square in the middle of Deed's activation range. I've been resisting cutting it for a long time now, but the advent of Sigarda is something I can't ignore, and I need to find the room somewhere. The fact that Ooze doesn't fly is something I expect to become more relevant in the future, as Moat should become better positioned in the meta with the printing of Caverns of Souls. While the fringe benefits of Ooze vs decks with Snapcaster is cool, I already stomp Dredge and Reanimator is going to be a bitch anyway...Ooze won't come down fast enough to help that, unless it's in my opener....and even then, maybe not. The incremental life gain is something I'm going to miss, considering that it has saved me several games, however I feel that the trade off for the faster, nigh unkillable clock of Sigarda is worth it.
-White versions can definitely be run without Rector...I don't really understand why people are surprised about this. I continue to be depressed by the lists that are top8ing the SCG Opens, though, because they don't reflect the true potential of the deck IMO. Deranged Hermit is awful. Get it out. That said, the slowly increasing presence of Hive Mind at least in the Open circuit is troubling. I'm pretty sure that's the one deck besides Sneak/Show that we can never beat under any circumstances barring miracles from on high.
-Metalworker revolves entirely around Monolith and Metalworker for them, and Cabal Therapy and Deed for us. If we can shut down their fast mana, we can choke them until Deed wraths away everything. If you have access to Moat, it can be an enormous cock-block for them as well, although you still need to worry about the 1x Steel Hellkite that most lists run (potentially Spine of Ish Sah as well). It's not a good matchup by any means, but it is winnable.
-Night of Souls is awesome board material, but I don't think it really fits that well maindeck. Note that Dread of Night is awful for us -- it gets Deeded away constantly. Also, I believe that the 4th Deed in the sideboard should be mandatory with the enormous presence of Maverick. It also helps against Dredge, Enchantress, Affinity, and so many other decks. I never realized how much I would board it in until I actually tried it.
I'm working more on the red version with Burning Wish as far as R&D goes, since I'm pretty happy with my Rector list aside from the perpetual tweaking. I'll post again before too long with my thoughts on that list (and the list itself, of course).
Great stuff. But no list? I'm dying to see your GBw version with Sigrada.
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