[Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

[Rock Lee]

Temporal Mastery Testing:

So I tried lots of other decks with Temporal Mastery, and it is redonko strong, but very few decks have the absurd ability to abuse land drops and mana as this archtype has, so I came back to eldrazi happily after significant testing of other decks first to not try to consider myself biased towards my creation.

So. what did I find? I tried versions with brainstorm, lim dul's vault, ponder, trinket mage, and ultimately i found that the best "variant" of Temporal Mastery was simply to drop All is Dust in my minimal blue list, and run 3 Temporal Mastery. When you have it, you just cast it, but you use top much more in upkeep than before instead of just drawing blindly.

The card is redonko though. I fully expect a banning of some cards due to Miracle Keyword though, I HOPE not Sensei's Divining Top, as it would crush this deck terribly.

Decklist:
// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [9E] Island (1)
1 [ALA] Forest (4)

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [US] Show and Tell
3 [AVR] Temporal Mastery
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 [MI] Cursed Totem

[Rock Lee]

Here's some good news for those theoretically interested but economically limited folks for this deck, I've been testing a version of the deck with zero Candelabras. Granted, it does maindeck The Tabernacle at Pendrell vale, but I could see just maindecking All is Dusts as a sub-par option to this. This brings the cost of the deck down from ~1300$ to 500, most of which are legacy staples like fetches and duals.

without further ado:

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [9E] Island (1)
1 [ALA] Forest (4)
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [GP] Repeal
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [AVR] Temporal Mastery
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will

Force in the side could be Mindbreak Traps if you side out blue cards, which I very rarely do except against reanimator, where you have plenty to side in. I HATE losing to reanimator, so I have a robust sideboard against them to say the least. Literally every card could come in if I wished to have a horrible deck post-side.

[MeddlingMageGR]

Temporal Mastery is a card that will blow up your mind, blind your thoughts, and disorientate you away from your target. Its a great card generally, but my opinion is that has nothing to give to Eldrazi mechanism.
All the cards - even if we speak for your or mine version - have selected carefully, not only after hard playtesting, but after hard brainstorming too. Im thinking... if the benefits from Temporal Mastery lowers the deck's power, by losing the cards you drop for adding TM.

You said in a previous post "I personally feel that the version I posted recently is significantly stronger than the Green version" Talking about your Show and Tell & Repeal version : I believe Show and Tell is a sideboard card. There is no logic to create a main mechanism (Expedition Map, Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying) that searches for huge amount of mana lands, and win with 3 mana only. There is something wrong here. Or these 3 cards (11 copies)are useless from the top to the bottom, and you need something to replace them to enforce Show and Tell version (Intuition, Personal Tutor,Boseiju, Who Shelters All) , or drop Show and Tell and use a way to play all these land cards you get fast. For example Exploration.
I dont say that Show and Tell is useless in this deck... to the contrary, against Goblins, Blood Moon, Chalice of the Void, Wasteland-lock, is the primary win condition. But I dont believe that deserves a maindeck slot, without "help".

About Repeal, tell me with your hand on the heart, how good is to draw a land card without having the ability to play that fast ? Deck has 16 ways to search for something (4 Sylvan Scrying, 4 Expedition Map, 4 Primeval Titan, 4 Sensei's Divining Top). Why you need more ?

You dont use Maze of Ith and Karakas. Maze with Candelabras can protect you up to 4 creatures, not to mention those who "carry" deadly Equipments like Swords (Sword of Body and Mind, Sword of Feast and Famine, Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Light and Shadow, Sword of War and Peace), Cranial Plating, Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull. Karakas protects your Eldrazi, and bounch some really annoying creatures like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Gaddock Teeg.
You dont use Crucible of Worlds and you miss the opportunity to play again and again your fetch lands (we all know how important is the GG for Titan), and you also miss the chance to lock your opponent's combat phase with Exploration and Glacial Chasm.
You dont use Pithing Needle, so that Wasteland will stop your dreams for a better future, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Liliana of the Veil or Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas will rape your virgin body like you were the cheapest prostitute :) (that was a joke)
The last funny thing I read was that you plan to get rid of All is Dust as well... mmm... 0 protection.

Come on Rock Lee.... wake up!! I miss the old Rock Lee with the great ideas. Think Think Think!!!

The latest version I play with much success is this one :

// Lands
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [MR] Sylvan Scrying
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [ROE] All Is Dust
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
2 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
4 [US] Exploration

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [ZEN] Magosi, the Waterveil
SB: 4 [SC] Stifle
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 1 [GP] Repeal

[Rock Lee]

MMGR, I appreciate your enthusiasm about defending your style of list, with exploration, crucibles and needles. As I mentioned, I played a list very very similar to this, that I posted, in a Mental Misstep era. I'm not saying the build is bad at all, However I feel that in the current meta, playing defensively is stronger than aggressively. Cards like Repeal and Show and Tell let you keep non-explosive hands and rely significantly less on inertia to win you the game, and more on playskill and patience.

I honestly feel that repeal is the single-best card in legacy right now. Even in a deck that isn't abusing super-high cmc use out of it like re-casting ulamog/kozilek, resetting candelabra, drawing 2 off of a top, resetting delver two turns for 1 mana, completely negating batterskull, and a 2nd draw ability for eot Temporal Masteries, are some of just the myriad examples Repeal has for being redonko.

I explained briefly, but Temporal Mastery essentially lets us play with cloudposts that Enter the Battlefield untapped, apply Haste to Show & Tell'd creatures, and allow you the extreme abuse of your mana even more than normal, since the exponential gains in mana only increase your overall advantage in the later turns.

I respect your stance defending your purist green build, but after testing builds similar to yours, and the previous builds of Minimal Blue version and the Temporal Mastery version, the decks are not even close to relative to each other power-wise.

[Fry]

a 2nd draw ability for eot Temporal Masteries

Have you read what Miracle says? It says IF IT'S YOUR FIRST CARD YOU DREW THIS TURN. EOT Mastery cannot happen because you already drew a card for the turn.

[xinque]

Pretty sure he meant casting it on opponent's turn. Taken off the WotC website:

"As you draw an instant or sorcery with miracle, if it's the first card you've drawn this turn, you can immediately reveal it. When you do so, you may cast it for its miracle cost. It doesn't matter whether it's an instant or sorcery; if you choose to cast it, you do so right away, even if it's at a time (such as your draw step) when you couldn't normally cast it. You're not required to reveal a miracle card, even if you could pay for it. You can always choose to just draw it as normal.

You're allowed to cast the first card you draw each turn if it has miracle, so if you find ways to draw cards during your opponent's turn, you get another chance for a game-breaking, miraculous moment."

Have you read what Miracle says? It says IF IT'S YOUR FIRST CARD YOU DREW THIS TURN. EOT Mastery cannot happen because you already drew a card for the turn.

[Rock Lee]

Pretty sure he meant casting it on opponent's turn. Taken off the WotC website:

Yep. Obviously meant casting miracle when it is most game-breaking, in your opponent's eot. Casting in draw step is the worse of two possible times to cast for miracle costs. SDT & Repeal facilitate eot Time walk'ing, which I have never done and lost a game in testing.

[Vacrix]

Temporal Mastery looks sick. I wonder though if Devastating Tide is more powerful though. For 1U it can stall the game out for a few turns and deals with troublesome permanents. I don't know if there's any synergy with replaying Candelabras.

[mistercakes]

i played MM's list last night -3 sylvan scrying +3 explore b/c i couldn't find them.

it was just at a local legacy friday night tourney.

played vs

maverick, maverick, dredge, u/b jace/snapcaster removal deck

i went 3-1 and split finals.

anyway, i'm posting b/c after playing a bunch of matches with the deck, i really do have to agree that the show and tell package is probably necessary maindeck over the mono green.

the deck sometimes just stalls on itself. i'm not quite sure if i agree with the time walk, but i haven't tried it myself. i'll probably test it out when i have the time/cards.

-rob

also i ran 4 sphere of resistance in the sb, which felt okay.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I'm thinking about assembling this deck, but I don't really many of the pieces yet (mainly the cheaper stuff aside from the candles). I'm wondering how many candles I need to build the deck. It seems like 2 for the U/G version and 3 for the mono-Green. Is there any reason for the subtle difference of the number of candles?

Also, why not 4? It seems like one of the strongest cards in the deck (Lack of space I'm guessing and that more than 1 is win-more).

[Rock Lee]

I'm thinking about assembling this deck, but I don't really many of the pieces yet (mainly the cheaper stuff aside from the candles). I'm wondering how many candles I need to build the deck. It seems like 2 for the U/G version and 3 for the mono-Green. Is there any reason for the subtle difference of the number of candles?

Also, why not 4? It seems like one of the strongest cards in the deck (Lack of space I'm guessing and that more than 1 is win-more).

I waffle all the time in my candelabra count. I've been testing a build with ZERO in it for a bit, although I am always trying to squeeze them back in.

The basic logic I use for candelabra count is this:
They are a brick until turn 2-3 at least, usually 3-4.
If you have smoothing & filter, you can run less of them.

Since turn 1-3 are your most important turns, inthat you are the most vulnerable to bursty aggro/combo or being wasted out of the game, the card doesn't help you when you need the most help.

On another note though, Devastation Tide looks incredible. Testing it extensively.

[Darkenslight]

Could Somberwald Sage ever be considered in this deck if you can't get hold of the Candelabras?

[MeddlingMageGR]

Could Somberwald Sage ever be considered in this deck if you can't get hold of the Candelabras?

ofcourse not. You may use this Magus of the Candelabra

@Rock Lee
Could Devastation Tide replace All is Dust ?

[Vacrix]

All is Dust and Devastation Tide would probably be competing for slots. The good thing about All is Dust is it permanently solves the problem of the board state. Honestly, if I play All is Dust against most opponent's, they lose. Its a fantastic topdeck and I usually have no trouble hitting 7 mana by the time they have enough creatures and/or permanents out that it will tilt the game in your favor.

Devastating Tide, however, has its own advantages. It temporarily solves the problem of the board state, but for significantly cheaper costs. 3UU is easily achievable for a deck that plays a 7 mana sweeper. The Miracle cost at 1U is even better because you could bounce everything and still have enough mana to pay for a Spell Pierce or Daze, or even play a Sylvan Scrying/Expedition Map. That should give you a massive tempo advantage in that they have to replay everything that they had in play. They'll likely be back where they were in 2-3 turns, perhaps longer if they had equipment to replay and equip.

Tide might not be as devastating (irony..) as All is Dust but it seems like they will both ultimately give you the same advantage in the long run; All is Dust solves the problem of the board state but for a heavy cost of 7, while Devastating Tide temporarily solves the problem of the board state, but for a minute cost that allows you to do other things with the same turn. As long as the board state doesn't threaten a win, 3 turns could be all you need to get a Primeval Titan into play and from there the game should pretty much be sealed. Also, Tide can be played quite early in the opponent is playing a really aggressive deck; however, I think those decks will have an easy time replaying their stuff. Goblins, play Lackey and something, go, swing in next turn, etc. 3 Turns later they have the same board state if not better than they had before. Elves/Affinity.. have no trouble reshitting their whole hand, also I'd say about 3 turns. I don't know if thats enough time.

[Rock Lee]

All is Dust and Devastation Tide would probably be competing for slots. The good thing about All is Dust is it permanently solves the problem of the board state. Honestly, if I play All is Dust against most opponent's, they lose. Its a fantastic topdeck and I usually have no trouble hitting 7 mana by the time they have enough creatures and/or permanents out that it will tilt the game in your favor.

Devastating Tide, however, has its own advantages. It temporarily solves the problem of the board state, but for significantly cheaper costs. 3UU is easily achievable for a deck that plays a 7 mana sweeper. The Miracle cost at 1U is even better because you could bounce everything and still have enough mana to pay for a Spell Pierce or Daze, or even play a Sylvan Scrying/Expedition Map. That should give you a massive tempo advantage in that they have to replay everything that they had in play. They'll likely be back where they were in 2-3 turns, perhaps longer if they had equipment to replay and equip.

Tide might not be as devastating (irony..) as All is Dust but it seems like they will both ultimately give you the same advantage in the long run; All is Dust solves the problem of the board state but for a heavy cost of 7, while Devastating Tide temporarily solves the problem of the board state, but for a minute cost that allows you to do other things with the same turn. As long as the board state doesn't threaten a win, 3 turns could be all you need to get a Primeval Titan into play and from there the game should pretty much be sealed. Also, Tide can be played quite early in the opponent is playing a really aggressive deck; however, I think those decks will have an easy time replaying their stuff. Goblins, play Lackey and something, go, swing in next turn, etc. 3 Turns later they have the same board state if not better than they had before. Elves/Affinity.. have no trouble reshitting their whole hand, also I'd say about 3 turns. I don't know if thats enough time.

all those points are important, but the best use of Devastating Tide, is the Eot Bounce your board. You can also bounce multiple tapped SDT's this way, and of course reset candelabras in mainphase.

[MeddlingMageGR]

tapped SDT's? How are you going to do that ?

[mistercakes]

i think what he's referring to is having multiple tops out

knowing that the miracle bounce spell is on top, then cracking all your tops and letting the first one resolve, drawing the miracle card, casting it and then letting all the other tops resolve after the miracle resolves. it's unlikely, but sure it's some extra cards.

[Rock Lee]

i think what he's referring to is having multiple tops out

knowing that the miracle bounce spell is on top, then cracking all your tops and letting the first one resolve, drawing the miracle card, casting it and then letting all the other tops resolve after the miracle resolves. it's unlikely, but sure it's some extra cards.

multiple tops is not unlikely, and if you kick that off with repeal, you use all tops in play.

Despite that, I'm debating cutting repeal for just x6-8 miracle cards in AVR. Testing for it has been extremely good.

[Vacrix]

I don't really see the advantage of EoT bounce your board. You mean so you can play All is Dust when you pass to your turn?


My immediate thought when I saw this card is 'oh shit Candelabra tricks'. I can't see it though because it looks like it costs too much. You can't float the mana if you play the spell in your draw step and 5 mana is a bit much considering you also have to replay the Candelabras after they bounce, and then spend the X mana to actually untap lands. Rock can you show an example line of play where bounce your board EoT is a strong play?

[Rock Lee]

I don't really see the advantage of EoT bounce your board. You mean so you can play All is Dust when you pass to your turn?


My immediate thought when I saw this card is 'oh shit Candelabra tricks'. I can't see it though because it looks like it costs too much. You can't float the mana if you play the spell in your draw step and 5 mana is a bit much considering you also have to replay the Candelabras after they bounce, and then spend the X mana to actually untap lands. Rock can you show an example line of play where bounce your board EoT is a strong play?

When they have non-permanents that are trying to win the game before you take all the turns.


::Non-Snarky Response::
My only gripe with All is Dust was not its Sorcery speed, it was that when running it, I found myself having to have additional cards to counter/combat the artifacts in play that were ultimately winning them the game far more than the colored permanents. Also, good players would hold back and ride equipment/Vial to victory through eot Arbors, snapcasters, and the like. It isn't completely dead versus Affinity. And lastly, All is Dust never gave the option to accelerate you, whereas this removal does via Top & Candelabra. All is Dust does clean up their board for one turn, but next turn they're dumping their hand as much as possible, Devastating Tide can do the same thing, or with proper setup do it significantly better as they lose that turn to replay.