Has anyone tried making a list that revolves around Academy Rector? You could use enchantments like Form of the Dragon, Decree of Silence, or even Eldrazi Conscription. Thoughts?
Huh?Originally Posted by hyperchord24
I like the Angel
I wish she had vigilance or trample, but I do like her a lot. This deck definitely needs fliers.
@jobdevries I'm still testing your list with tops. Have you tried them?
@Rector: Arianrhod has played with Rector a lot. From my experience fancy stuff like Form of the Dragon will lose you more games when you draw it than it will win you. Usually too much has to go well for cards like that to work. Stuff that you actively want to draw like Deed or Recurring Nightmare (or Faith's Fetters if you play more than one Rector) are better options.
@Sigarda: she is very good, better than Thrun. The regenration on Thrun is not often useful. But flying helps a lot in fighting Jace as well as blocking Delvers or Spirit Tokens. The sacrifice ability is easily forgotten but protection from Liliana and Innocent Blood is quite often useful.
I dislike this trend of running 2 rec-night. I have been much happier with 1 rec_night and 1 diabolic intent.
Sigarda has also been amazing for me, although I must wonder if 3 finishers is too many (grave tit, sun tit, sigar).
I will agree that BoP is not that great in here. I like the 2 strange geese, they seem to allow me some sexy turn 2 plays and blowing up deed and sacing stuff for fun and profit.
I do love me some turn 3 titans.
1md and 1sb ooze seems optimal.
1-2 tops is the way to go. When we don't have the goods, we have more than enough mana to spare.
@ Star: No, I haven't tested them thoroughly. Tomorrow I have a tourney, and I'm planning to play the list posted by me at page 54, with the exception of running a Kokusho, Fierce Empath and Maelstrom Pulse, instead of Protean Hulk, Spike Weaver and Abyssal Persecutor.
@DrHealex: I suppose it depends on the list (I am assuming you're playing a Birthing Pod version), but I'm playing 5 finishers (Sigarda, Grave tit, Sun tit, Karn, and Kokusho) and 5 doesn't seem to be too much to me.
I've been running 2 Garruk Relentless and have been loving him. Being able to poop tokens, and then search for Sun titan is the tits.
-Matt
Let us know how you do.
@ Star: I will :)
@Arianrhod, didn't you go to a tourney called Jupiter League or something? How did it go? Any cards particularly good or bad?
Edit: Never mind, Jupiter Games are this weekend. Anyway, keep us up to date, Arianrhod ;)
It's Jupiter Games -- they host a monthly qualifier tournament for an invitational held once a year. It's kind of like Starcity, but on a much smaller scale, and one that doesn't travel all over the country. At the same time, it's also home to many of the best legacy players in the Northeast...it's a ridiculously high skill level event. And the tournament is tomorrow, so I'll be able to give a report on Sunday most likely. I've got a few new pieces of technology that I'm trying out for this event....like an Elesh Norn in the sb for Maverick. Note that my list specifically has a bit more trouble with Maverick than most others in this thread, but at the tradeoff of that my list absolutely devours blue decks. I have something like an 80% win against Canadian Thresh, for example.
@jobdevries:
I haven't had the nerve to play the bojuka bog MD but I do have it in the sideboard as it's more of a spell than a land to me, but how do you cope with it in your opening hand against non-dredge decks?
That's what I don't understand. I don't have any trouble, but you start throwing 5 and 6 drops around and people automatically think it is jank.
I run a singleton Garruk Relentless, and he is always good if I draw him, even if only as some removal and a bit of damage soak. If he gets going, you basically just win. Also works wonders as removal with Master of the Wild Hunt. IMO Liliana is still overall better, though.
As for running multiple finishers, I run four/fives myself. Seeing multiple win conditions is hardly ever bad, as you can usually just go the slow route and keep backup in your hand.
My finishers at the moment are Sun Titan, Grave Titan, Thrun, and Sigarda. I have been very happy with each, although I have considered cutting Thrun now that Sigarda is out.
Hello everyone
I recently decided to play some legacy after being a longtime standard player. I don't have much experience in legacy, I've only being trying out my friends legacy decks.
However, it's time to build my own deck and I've read a lot about pretty much every legacy deck there is but nic fit seems to be what catches me the most.
I prefer the black/green version so far, deck seems more solid overall as well as it's a bit cheaper to build (lacking legacy cards).
I'd love to hear if someone could explain why Nic Fit is good comparing to other legacy decks. Why not every list running Skeletal Scrying, it seems stupid good, and what's the biggest weakness of the Nic Fit deck.
Cheers
@ Litenkatt:
I think Nic Fit has two big advantages comparing to other legacy decks:
1. Nic Fit abuses the ability of Veteran Explorer to get a lot of basic lands into play early in the game. You use that mana to cast ridiculous creatures.
2. The deck is one big toolbox, it gets what you need when you need it (by using Green sun's zenith, diabolic intent, eternal witness, fierce empath et cetera).
I don't think Skeletal Scrying is good in this deck (well, at least not in my version):
- It exiles cards from your graveyard. You don't want that, you USE your graveyard. Even lands have a function in the grave.
- It makes you lose live. This deck often needs some time to start going. I often win games being on 5 life, or even 1 or 2 life.
Are you planning to play BG with birthing pod? Or white splash? What version(s) are you considering?
@rest:
I managed to reach top 4 at the tournament today. :) I'll try to post a report tomorrow.
Im really glad someone else did well thinking along the same lines as me at scg. Strangleroot geist seems really random though, maybe aimed at killing plainswalkers?
@litenkatt
i see this deck as part of the survival of the fittest bloodline (you may gain something from looking at some old recsur decks, which are very similar in concept). This deck has two main things going for it:
1. Synergy - no card is 1 dimensional (except for inquisition of kozilek / swords); they all interact in many ways, and fit along a distinct curve.
2. Most decks only use the cards they have in their hand or in play. This deck utilizes its library (zenith, academy rector, birthing pod) and graveyard (nightmare, witness, reveilark, sun titan) as well.
Since it uses its graveyard and library so much, it is vulnerable to graveyard hate and cards like aven mindcensor and leonin arbiter. It also suffers more from things like swords to plowshares. The other main issue is that it runs on a higher curve than most other decks, which we justify with veteran explorer (and birthing pod). This means daze, spell pierce, and mana leak will forever be a thorn in your side. This also means you are more likely to randomly suffer from drawing too many high cc cards, or too many low cc cards (zenith & pod help fix this), or not enough lands.
@ Sigarda
I just got back into magic and didn't know this card existed. Perfect fit in this deck. I still think thrun deserves a spot too though, the ability to regen and chump indefinitely has won me many games. If you ever actually draw it, the uncounterable thing is nice too. Im gonna see how i like running both
@Garruk relentless
i like him alot more than big garruk, and he has more synergy with the rest of the deck. Kill a creature and tutor up whatever i want? yes please.
@Liliana
Another card i just found out about. When i first read it, it just didn't look very good. After testing a couple games i was very underwhelmed. With such a high curve, i almost always have cards in my hand that i don't want to discard. Ill keep trying him though
@random other things
I never liked grave titan, hes too expensive, off color, and doesn't interact with the rest of the deck. Deranged hermit is on color for zenith, costs less (kind of), has a bigger immediate impact, and combined with witness/nightmare/reveilark he wins games.
Also, recurring nightmare is a monster in this deck. I would run 3 if i wasn't playing birthing pod. Pretty much every creature has a cip/lp ability, why would you not want to abuse that. If nightmare goes unanswered, and i have 3+ creatures, i win most time.
Liliana is excellent, largely because we only need one card on the table to win, whatever it may be. Once our finisher is out, we just need it to stick around a few turns and we win, and the repetitive discard is a sort of protection.
Tangle that with her being a house against combo and control decks, and that we have among the best top deck potential of any deck in the format, and I have never been able to run less than two.
Also, that only covers her first ability. The other two are also excellent, especially in longer games.
If nothing else her competitive record is very impressive. A large majority of the lists that win at large tournaments run her.
Does anybody on this thread have experience with Natural Order in this deck? I've never tried it myself, but it seems to solve the problem of us needing to win quickly. Here's the link to a list that took 1st out of 89 in Europe. I'm already on the Punishing Fire version, but I was wondering if anyone had tried NO at all before this.
Hey guys,
Yesterday I went to a small legacy tournament (34 people) in the Netherlands, and wanted to let you guys know how I did. I'm proud to say I was the only Nic Fitter. The main thing that caught my attention was the fact that there wasn't a lot of storm decks around, which, of course, was a huge advantage to me.
I wasn't able to loan all the cards I needed. I was missing a scrubland, 2x windswept heath and a leyline of sanctity in my sideboard. That's why I had the replacements of a 3rd bayou, and a spike weaver in the SB. Instead of the 2x windswept heath, I played 2 marsh flats. Here is the list I played:
Creatures (15):
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Eternal Witness
1x Sun Titan
1x Grave Titan
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Fierce Empath
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
Spells (18):
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Diabolic Intent
2x Duress
1x Maelstrom Pulse
Artifacts and Enchantments (4):
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
Planeswalkers (2):
1x Karn Liberated
1x Liliana of the Veil
Lands (21):
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
2x Swamp
3x Forest
2x Plains
3x Bayou
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Savannah
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Bojuka Bog
// Sideboard
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Spike Weaver
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Peacekeeper
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Extirpate
4x Pithing Needle
Match 1: Reanimate
I think this match-up is slightly unfavourable for me. He can reanimate the stuff in my graveyard, which is not ideal.
Game 1: This first game was insane. He made clever use of my graveyard, using animate dead on my Fierce Empath, to tutor his biggies. Although he kept bringing in big creatures, I still managed to keep them off using pernicious deed on his animate dead, and StP on his creatures. At one point I was at 7, and he at 27 life. Slowly I regained control, since he was running out of possibilities to return his creatures, and Ooze helped me removing his targets. Near the end of the game I had a Kokusho, Sun Titan and a Sigarda. He had some other wicked big creatures I can't recall. He was at 5 life, so a simple saccing of my kokusho gave me the first game. 1-0.
Game 2: I boarded in 3x Extirpate. I had a quick start, and was able to play a Sigarda. I extirpated his reanimate, which he had used to recur an Empyrial Archangel. I used diabolic tutor to fetch me a Liliana of the Veil: 2-0.
Match 2: Affinity
A really favourable match-up on my part. Deed will get them artifacts any time.
Game 1: Bad luck for him. He had to mulligan to 5. Still he managed to build a vast army, but lacked a cranial plating. Pernicious deed ended the game pretty quickly. 1-0.
Game 2: Boarded in a Spike Weaver. Again he had to mulligan. Although he got 3 Etched Champions out, and quickly kicked me to 6, a Deed stopped his actions. 2-0.
Match 3: Sliver Control
I was really surprised to see Slivers around. He did really well though, and managed to go top 8. He used Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls, and had some neat interactions going.
Game 1: I went completely nuts with a Sun Titan – Recurring deed. When Sigarda and Thrun joined him on the battlefield, he was forced to scoop.
Game 2: I didn’t board anything in. Lots of hand disruption and deed did the trick. Scavenging Ooze ate his creatures, and finished him off fairly quickly.
2-0.
Match 4: Sneak and Show
I have always been afraid of this match-up. There is little, besides Liliana, that I can do about an Emrakul. With Avacyn Restored bringing Sneak and Show Griselbrand, this deck has improved even further.
Game 1: He had a perfect hand, and cast a show and tell on turn 3. Emrakul comes in to play on his side. No answers. 0-1.
Game 2: I boarded in 3x Extirpate, Peacekeeper, Gaddock Teeg, Spike Weaver, and 4 Pithing Needles. I had a perfect hand for a normal match-up (aka: useless), so I was forced to mulligan to 4, keeping 2 lands, veteran explorer and an extirpate. I managed to stabilize pretty good. Had Sigarda in play, he had an Emrakul in hand, but annihilate couldn’t hit me, and he was lacking a way to put it into play. I cabal therapied 2 emrakuls in his hand. Then he used show and tell to get a Griselbrand into play. When I attacked with sigarda he made the mistake of blocking it, and I was able to pump it to 8/8 with a spikeweaver in play. I extirpated his Griselbrand, and his show and tells. Feeling confident I started kicking him with Sigarda. When he got a Sneak Attack out, and he countered my Pithing Needle, I had the decision of holding back, or kick him for lethal, hoping he had no emrakul in hand. He did have an emrakul, and I lost my Sigarda. On his turn he hardcasted an Emrakul. I tried to resolve a Liliana, he FoWed it. 0-2.
Match 5: Pox
I thought it wouldn’t be that bad of a match-up. But I was wrong.
Game 1: He completely stripped me of all the lands I had, and had no way to recover. 0-1.
Game 2: I boarded in 3x Leyline of Sanctity for his hand disruption.
I started off better this time, and I had a lot of lands into play. Unfortunately I kept drawing cards of very little use. He resolved a Liliana, making my hand even worse, and resolved a Karn Liberated (yes, you read that right, a Karn) shortly after. 0-2.
Match 6: Canadian Threshold
Game 1: I was really greedy, and kept a hand with 1x Fetch, 2x Duress, and 2x Cabal Therapy, and no other lands in hand. I made the horrible mistake of fetching a bayou, which he wastelanded. I didn’t draw any more lands, and he finished me off with a transformed Delver of Secrets. 0-1.
Game 2 and Game 3: I boarded in an extra Thrun. Fast games with deeds, sigarda and thrun. 2-1.
→ I went top 8, having won 4 out of 6 matches.
Match 7: Fauna-Maverick
I have never played a match this long. Our battle lasted 1 hour and 45 minutes.
Game 1: He started off with a duress, removing my zenith. I StPed his thalia, he sworded my veteran, et cetera. When he played an Ooze, I had a way of killing it. When I had an Ooze out, he killed it. After a long time of bothering each other, I had assembled enough lands to play the biggies. I sacced a deed clearing his bored, then resolved a Sun Titan. He had no answer for the Titan+Deed. 1-0.
Game 2: Some horrible plays on my side in this game. I kept hold of my Sigarda in hand, thinking he could bounce it using Karakas (Hexproof anyone? -.-). At one point I had a Sigarda and Thrun in play, he had 3 knights of the reliquary, a Terravore, and a Scavening Ooze with 6 +1/+1 counters. For some reason he was too careful to kick me with all of his creatures. He kept kicking with a single Ooze, which Thrun didn’t mind at all. Even though I blew up the board with deed for 3, he topdecked an Elspeth, which gave his Edric, Spymaster of Trest +3/+3 and flying, flying over my Thrun, and kicked me for lethal (he had managed to kill my Sigarda, by playing a Sigarda of his own).
Game 3: Had 3 veterans in play, kept kicking with them. Then blew up a deed. A lot of mana brought me a Grave Titan and Sigarda. Although I kept kicking with Grave and Sigarda, he had some nice synergy going on his side: Dryad Arbor, Mother of Runes and Scryb Ranger kept them off for a while. Another deed stopped that. 2-1.
Because of this long match, the top 4 decided to split the prices, instead of playing another 2 matches.
Some notes, regarding the cards:
@Pernicious Deed: best card of the day. They are so deadly against any aggro deck, clearing their whole board. Clearing a board, including your own veterans, then casting something huge… amazing.
@Sigarda: I can’t say how happy I am, having this one in the deck. Every green sun’s zenith means a 5/5 flying, hexproof, taking care of planeswalkers, especially Liliana (which I did see a lot of times). It races them in 4 turns… the best creature in the deck, for sure.
@Spike Weaver: Horrible. Even matches I thought it’d be good, it sucked.
@ Leyline of Sanctity: I really need 4. You just want them on the battlefield, on the first turn.
After typing this report, I checked other reports, and noticed they were really brief. I hope you guys don't mind the report is rather large. Hope it might be of help to some of you people.
Any suggestions, any comments?
Thanks a lot in advance!
Job
Last edited by jobdevries; 05-13-2012 at 10:36 AM.
Did you see Karn at all?
Sigarda being awesome and Spike Weaver not is unsurprising.
Why Duress over IoK? Did you ever wish it was the other way around?
Did you ever want a second Liliana? I know I usually run two to make it more likely to see one.
And., finally, you probably want a singleton Karakas for tutoring with KotR in the case of Reanimator and Sneak Show.
For some reason I didn't see Karn at all. Didn't draw him on the right time, and had other things to tutor on other times. Still, I know he won me a lot of games in the past, so I'm reluctant to take him out.
Duress can get FoW, Jace et cetera, which are horrible to play against. I can't really think of any card I can not deal with later, that costs 3 mana or less. I think IoK and Duress can both be good in their own way, but I prefer Duress at the moment.
I did need a second liliana at certain times, but GSZ-> eternal made sure of that, next to diabolic tutor. Sun Titan + Liliana is also very neat. I do think though that a second Liliana would improve the deck. If I have the money/cards I might try it out.
Karakas was suggested to me as well, and just like a second Liliana, I might just get one if I can.
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