[Deck] Dredge

[Michael Keller]

I think going down on the number of Careful Study is a mistake. That should always be four, no matter what. All of your lands have the ability to produce Blue mana, where as cards like Faithless Looting and Putrid Imp require an investment of something other than four (4) Coliseum, which in this case leaves you with seven (7) only other options to combine with. That can create awkward circumstances and open hands not having the ability to produce Red or Black mana.

[K1w1]

Here are my results:

49 Players

Played the Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB

I'm too lazy to report the matches. There is nothing important, except the thing, i can't beat Goblins...

2:1 Maverick
0:2 Goblins
6:0 Reanimator ( we played 4 more games for fun )
2:0 Canadian
2:1 Canadian
1:1 Canadian ( I accepted the draw, we both came in the Top 8, we played: 2:0 -.- )
Top 8:
1:2 Maverick

K1w1

[Holly]

If you dont mind, I'd like to hear some more informations in your Matches vs Canadian since I really dont know how to play against them, specially if we're on the draw. The DDD route seems to be to slow against their fast clock and one lands hands can be pretty sketchy if they have daze and/or spell pierce. So how do you play versus them? Mulligan for at least a 2 land-hand to play through daze? Try to overwhelm them as fast as possible?

[K1w1]

If you dont mind, I'd like to hear some more informations in your Matches vs Canadian since I really dont know how to play against them, specially if we're on the draw. The DDD route seems to be to slow against their fast clock and one lands hands can be pretty sketchy if they have daze and/or spell pierce. So how do you play versus them? Mulligan for at least a 2 land-hand to play through daze? Try to overwhelm them as fast as possible?

Even on the play or on the draw, mostly you try to LED first ( they will counter it, don't know why ) and afterwards you play the draw spells. So your graveyard is going bigger and bigger.
I definitely don't mull into two lands.
I also don't board in this matchup, like in maverick in which i don't do it too.
Just therapy right, and you win.
The worst situation is to lose against turn 1 delver, flip turn 2. Followed by Mongoose + Goyf.

K1w1

[joemauer]

Even on the play or on the draw, mostly you try to LED first ( they will counter it, don't know why )
K1w1

All of their counterspells are taxing like Daze and Pierce. If LED resolves your next discard spell will certainly resolve unless they have force of will.

Also, thresh players probably counter LED in hopes of it being our only discard spell.

[jares]

I think going down on the number of Careful Study is a mistake. That should always be four, no matter what. All of your lands have the ability to produce Blue mana, where as cards like Faithless Looting and Putrid Imp require an investment of something other than four (4) Coliseum, which in this case leaves you with seven (7) only other options to combine with. That can create awkward circumstances and open hands not having the ability to produce Red or Black mana.

+1

[jares]

If you dont mind, I'd like to hear some more informations in your Matches vs Canadian since I really dont know how to play against them, specially if we're on the draw. The DDD route seems to be to slow against their fast clock and one lands hands can be pretty sketchy if they have daze and/or spell pierce. So how do you play versus them? Mulligan for at least a 2 land-hand to play through daze? Try to overwhelm them as fast as possible?

With the number of lands that LED Dredge runs (12-14), you've only got a 42.96% chance of getting 2 lands after the first mulligan (at 14 lands). While that probability isn't so bad, I doubt if there exists a intentional strategy in Dredge that requires 2 lands (except, of course, for Cephalid Coliseum).

If only I could play Tolarian Winds properly...

Cheers,
jares

[Isaac]

Hollywood I respect your opinion you know but I felt that day I never missed the one. I went undefeated until round three in matches and in round 3 I had plenty of drawl just no dredgers in the first game. Round 4 the one I lost I never felt an extra drawl spell would help and in top my first game was close he had thalia out and waste my land. I didn't miss the one study at all and my results show cutting one while not being optimal is a choice you can make.

[jares]

Hollywood I respect your opinion you know but I felt that day I never missed the one. I went undefeated until round three in matches and in round 3 I had plenty of drawl just no dredgers in the first game. Round 4 the one I lost I never felt an extra drawl spell would help and in top my first game was close he had thalia out and waste my land. I didn't miss the one study at all and my results show cutting one while not being optimal is a choice you can make.

I believe that I discussed something in the previous pages that might be relevant to what you're saying, as shown below:

The list of areas that have become flexible has grown more and more over time, such that even a Narcomeoba would be cut from time to time. I don't believe that all of this "flexing" is beneficial, though - in fact, I find that most of it is probably harmful (the Narcomeoba example being one of the more obvious ones). As an example, I find cutting a Breakthrough or two from the main deck to be questionable, as my experience has taught me that I would want a Breakthrough in my hand as often as possible. The same goes for Cabal Therapy, especially when considering the possibility of going against tricky match-ups. Of course, it has been proven time and again that running less than a full set of these cards can still produce wins, and that's where things become much more "flexible", at least in terms of perception.

Virtually every card in the deck has been "flexed" at one time or another, except maybe for the following:

• Bridge from Below
• Golgari Grave-Troll
• Stinkweed Imp
• Gemstone Mine
• City of Brass

I guess Careful Study is one of those cards that falls under the "flex slots" even though some of us feel that it should be in the Core. As noted above, virtually any build has the potential to win, simply because the power level of Dredge seems to have that threshold for empowering decks that may not be optimally built. This threshold makes it that much more difficult for us to determine what is "optimal", as each of our experiences will surely teach us something different about the deck - unfortunately, some of the things that we've learned might not at all be beneficial to the deck.

Kind Regards,
jares

[Calado]

Here are my results:

49 Players

Played the Quadlazer + Ashen Ghoul SB

I'm too lazy to report the matches. There is nothing important, except the thing, i can't beat Goblins.

I never faced goblins...
What was the biggest problem in this match?
And against Maverick, did you miss Firestorm, or was just bad luck?

[K1w1]

I never faced goblins...
What was the biggest problem in this match?
And against Maverick, did you miss Firestorm, or was just bad luck?

My biggest problem is the speed. They are really fast.
The situation preboard was this: She had 12 Goblins, I had 8 Zombies. She removed my Bridges with Mogg War Marshal. And with Ringleader + hasty creatures = GG

I don't play Firestorm and i won't play Firestorm. I think Firestorm is a bad choice in LED Dredge.
Normally you just race them with your speed.

I had bad luck. We went in game 3 and i had to mull three times and i was on the play. And he had everything.

K1w1

[Michael Keller]

Hollywood I respect your opinion you know but I felt that day I never missed the one. I went undefeated until round three in matches and in round 3 I had plenty of drawl just no dredgers in the first game. Round 4 the one I lost I never felt an extra drawl spell would help and in top my first game was close he had thalia out and waste my land. I didn't miss the one study at all and my results show cutting one while not being optimal is a choice you can make.

That's understandable and all, but the small sample of games you played in - while still a moderate success - will be overshadowed over the course of the long-haul in that it will clearly indicate that it is probably a more viable solution to play a full set over three. It will slightly improve your mulligans and opening hands in addition to allowing you to draw into anti-hate post-board while also giving you a chance to recover after you've been hit with said hate.

Putrid Imp is great at slow-rolling the dredges and feeding Ichorids, but it doesn't dig you deeper through your deck which is what you want to be doing. I am not sure what kind of hand you kept against Maverick Round Four, but I would be interested in knowing.

It is a choice you can make on a basic level of thinking, but you really should be running four Study for optimizing just about every aspect of your game.

[Anusien]

I would cut anything but dredgers and lands for Careful Study. I would easily run up to 12 or more of this card if they let me.

[Isaac]

i didn't face maverick until top round 4 was nic fit. From what I recall I had looting land narc study and two other cards. I had plenty of drawl the problem was the waste on my one land plus thalia.

[Tombstalker]

Below is the list I have built and I would like some input on my choices. My thought process is to maximize the most powerful draw cards and win conditions for game 1 without hitting 'diminishing returns' such as the 4th ichorid. Basically I am trying to optimize lands, dredgers, cards that draw and discard, and black creatures (griselbrand fits into both these last two catagories).
Post board in the face of hate the deck can slow its plan with pimps if necessary and diversify with ghouls for beatdown and shadow to further diversify and facilitate bridges/therapy etc. The rest of the board im unsure on since im pretty much just following suite with what you guys have tried and tested but im wanting some yard hate in there somewhere. Anyway here it is:


Lands 13
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
4 cephalid Colliseum
1 undiscovered paradise

Dredgers 12
4 golgari grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 golgari thug

Business 13
4 bridge from Below
4 narcomoeba
3 ichorid
2 dread Return

Draw/discard 20
4 LED
4 cabal therapy
4 faithless looting
4 careful study
4 breakthrough

DR Target 2
2 griselbrand

Sideboard 15
4 putrid imp
1 memory’s journey
1 ancient grudge
4 natures claim
2 ashen ghoul
1 nether shadow
1 iona
1 open slot

[rxavage]

Has anyone tested Thought Scour? It seems like a good fit, the only issue is that it isnt better than careful study, faithless looting, or breakthrough.

[Tombstalker]

I haven't tested scour but hapless researcher seems better in most instances, too bad it isn't black.

[Izor]

I haven't tested scour but hapless researcher seems better in most instances, too bad it isn't black.

Both have been tested, although it took only one day to realize they're very lackluster.

A draw-discard effect really has to push it over the top in order to be played over Study, Looting and Breakthrough (plus Coliseum). I can't think of anything they could even print right now that wouldn't be too broken.

[Michael Keller]

So is it safe to say everyone is eschewing the Firestorms in the sideboard?

[igri_is_a_bk]

Absolutely not. Against seven of the top 16 decks from Worcester, I'd want to bring in Firestorm.

Threshold UGr
RUG Delver
Threshold UGr
Maverick
Maverick
Threshold UGr
Elves

I don't understand why people are hating on Firestorm. Especially when somebody posted above about how they can't beat Goblins, yet they won't play the card. o_O