Miracle Control

[Einherjer]

Let's make a bet. I say, until the end of the summer, there is no Stoneblade any more. All UW Control-Decks will be playing some little creatures a'la Clique/Snappy/Mishra but will win via Jace/Angels. No Stoneforge into Batterskull any more. Klaus, are you up for a bet?

[klaus]

Let's make a bet. I say, until the end of the summer, there is no Stoneblade any more. All UW Control-Decks will be playing some little creatures a'la Clique/Snappy/Mishra but will win via Jace/Angels. No Stoneforge into Batterskull any more. Klaus, are you up for a bet?

Haha! I like your style.
I've tried several approaches to UW control and the prime reason for me to stick with Stoneblade for a while was Thrun, which ran rampant for quite some time in my meta.
Now that we have 4-5 MD outs, I don't see a reason to still stick with it

Let's make a different bet: Germany will win the European Soccer Championship 2012. I'm willing to bet all of my street cred on that!

[Einherjer]

If you'd free up some space in your inbox we can talk about that.

Enough if off-topic-shit. Back to topic:

As we are Deck to Beat now I have to bring up the question (3rd time now) how you are going to approach to the mirror. I've been trying 2 different approaches. First one was to add 1 Underground Sea and 1 Scrubland to the main, and playing 3-4 Thoughtseizes in the side. While being supergood vs SneakAttack it didn't win me as many games as expected. So I switched to green which I am happy with now. In the mirror, the player who first assembles the CB+Top combo first is normally the one who's winning. With 2 (maybe 3?) Krosan Grips in the sideboard this balance should be broken in some way. Ive done quite alot testgames (though against random-guys via Internet) and I won nearly all the games when I drew a Grip. In addition to this I am playing a single Elspeth in the side which is pretty bonkers aswell.

Greetings from Noricum

[klaus]

How you are going to approach to the mirror?

My current list for reference:

4 STP
4 BS
4 FOW
4 Top
3 CB
3 SCM
3 Terminus
3 Pierce
2 CS
3 Jace
1 Elspeth
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Oblivion Ring
[37]
8 Fetch
3 Tundra
2 G. Fortress
2 Plains
5 Island
2 Wasteland
1 Kor Haven
[23]

SB:
2 Surgical Ex.
2 Relic
1 Pierce
2 Fluster Storm
2 PtE
1 CB
2 Disenchant
2 Clique
1 Jace

As stated before: Pierce is a nice MD addtion that enhances the mirror.´- same for Elspeth and O. Rings, which I picked over Cliques.

Grip sounds like a feasible solution. Obviously it's a meta call, but I don't expect to play too many mirrors in the near future tbh.
The only mini splash that I'm pondering on atm is red - just for Blasts: they not only improve the mirror, but S&T and Rug as well.

[Thorondor]

imo stoneblade is much more aggressive than uw control.
you play turn two mystic, sometimes even without force backup. You tap out against lot of decks and
it is less counter dependent than the control version. I for the moment prefer the uw miracle control version and think this name is fine.

sry for the off topic.

let's try to build up a real core decklist:

4 STP
4 BS
4 FOW
3 SCM
3 Jace
3-4 Top
3-4 CB
3-4 Terminus
0-3 Pierce
2-4 CS
1-2 Entreat the Angels
1-2 Oblivion Ring
0-1 Vendillion Clique
0-1 Elspeth
0-1 Crucible
0-1 Humility

mana base is fine and i am not considering any splash in a core version, only thing to discuss are mishras or wastelands, they are more or less creatures/spells

0-4 Mishras
0-4 wastelands

lot of cards which could go in or out, especially when you know your meta well.

22 or 23 lands?

edit: for the control version i only consider CB in the MD and not in the SB.

[Nihil Credo]

I hate to be that guy, but Terminus and EtA will be (or already have become) core cards of the StoneBlade archetype as well, which is why I'm not sure the new title helps establishing a clear distinction.

Right now, the last page of the Blade Control category on tc.es (30 Top 8 decks) features a grand total of 3 copies of Terminus and 2 of EtA. They also almost universally pack 8-15 creatures plus 3-4 copies of Lingering Souls. Maybe your assessment will be proven right, but it will take another month or two at least.

[yutang]

Thorondor, I disagree with Oblivion Ring being a core card. It has only appeared twice in the TC Council decklists and its not a necessity imo.

[Einherjer]

Oblivion-Ring is necessary. It handles permanents we have a hard time dealing with once there - Elspeth for example plus it does grant us some free wins vs a Show and Telled Emrakul. I wouldn't say 1-2 but 1 O-Ring should be somewhere in the 75. Especially with a E-Tutor-Sideboard (Like mine)

Greetings

[klaus]

Hey Thorondor, good start!
Here's my take:

4 STP
4 BS
3-4 FOW (though I think 4 is clearly the right number)
2-3 SCM
3-4 Jace
4 Top
3-4 CB
3-4 Terminus
0-3 Pierce
2-3 CS
1-2 Entreat the Angels
0-2 Oblivion Ring
0-2 Vendillion Clique
0-1 Elspeth

[Koby]

What, you mean the literally two card difference? There are only two major differences from the older lists. I cut Shackles for Terminus, since Terminus is a much better crowd control removal spell due to its speed. I cut Elspeth for Entreat the Angels, as it's far more powerful.

The minor tweaks, such as fitting in Spell Pierce, running a singleton V Clique, running Wastelands/Factories/3rd color splash, are all minor tweaks that this deck has experienced throughout the years.

This has nothing to do with ego. None of the fundmantal core of this deck has changed at all, it's simply gained a stronger removal spell and a stronger win condition.

Mosts of the lists I've seen so far haven't deviated from the core. I suspect most of the builds that are drastically different (like those running Temporal Mastery and no Counterbalance) will eventually gravitate to lists more like mine. Two new cards doesn't change the fundamentals of an archetype I've spent years tweaking. Don't mistake my years of experience tuning this deck as "ego." I know what I'm talking about when it comes to this archetype, that's all.

I’m the type of deck designer that tries to often think outside of the box

Your ego has a big part of the old primer. "I", "I've", and "I'm" appear over 100 times. It does not read as though you are building concensus but rather hyping yourself and your ideas. Hence, i suggest to be humble and make the primer more accessible to someone who might not agree with each and every card choice.

[Thorondor]

Your ego has a big part of the old primer. "I", "I've", and "I'm" appear over 100 times. It does not read as though you are building concensus but rather hyping yourself and your ideas. Hence, i suggest to be humble and make the primer more accessible to someone who might not agree with each and every card choice.

.....is this really important for you? Serious, he knows about this deck and has surely put some passion into it. Where is the problem giving him credit for that. ego or not, I don't care, I just like the deck and also people playing it.

copying klaus list:

4 STP
4 BS
4 FOW
2-3 SCM
3-4 Jace
4 Top
3-4 CB
3-4 Terminus
0-3 Pierce
2-3 CS
1-2 Entreat the Angels
0-2 Oblivion Ring
0-2 Vendillion Clique
0-1 Elspeth

4 FoW for sure! Enough blue cards and you want the FoW will at the beginning and later you can maybe even hardcast it.

if you consider elspeth why not humility, you still win with entreat and elspeth is even more awesome, also humility shines with mishras.

the question for me is still: 4 mishras or 4 wastelands or is a combination possible with 2-3 mishras and 2-3 wastelands playing total 23 lands or maybe even 24.

[klaus]

Your ego has a big part of the old primer. "I", "I've", and "I'm" appear over 100 times. It does not read as though you are building concensus but rather hyping yourself and your ideas. Hence, i suggest to be humble and make the primer more accessible to someone who might not agree with each and every card choice.

+1
Hanni, I love your passion for deck building, but there have been tons of UW control lists featuring your approach before, the only actual difference is that you have been hyping CB-Top quite persistently - I've tested most of the viable approaches extensively and came to the conclusion that CB-Top wasn't the way to go.
Now a 1 mana Wrath comes along and suddenly CB-Top is cool.
I don't want to sound harsh but ..so we got lucky the miracle is white and fits the deck neatly.
I'm not hating on you, it's just that I totally see Koby's point: humbleness where humbleness is due --> primers should be written with a semi-scientific approach.

Well yeah, please don't take personal offense.
Cheers,
klaus

[menace13]

Oblivion-Ring is necessary. It handles permanents we have a hard time dealing with once there - Elspeth for example plus it does grant us some free wins vs a Show and Telled Emrakul. I wouldn't say 1-2 but 1 O-Ring should be somewhere in the 75. Especially with a E-Tutor-Sideboard (Like mine)

Greetings

Elspeth isn't much of an issue neither is Jace, if you can resolve Entreat it trumps them all.

[klaus]

Elspeth isn't much of an issue neither is Jace, if you can resolve Entreat it trumps them all.

I actually consider every spell that I only have 1-2 solutions to after it has resolved an issue.

[JimmyC27]

For those of you with experience running this card, is Porphyry Nodes a real bomb against aggro out of the sideboard?

[JimmyC27]

@klaus (and anyone interested in Wasteland within this deck)

I saw in your list you're running a 2x of Wasteland. I'm quite fond of running some number of Wastelands in my decks too. Which brings me to my question: what about replacing Wasteland/Crucible options with Back to Basics?

I saw it in this list on the TC Decks page: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...3&iddeck=61222

Personally, I like running Wasteland for locks and to kill utility cards (Maze of Ith, Grove of the Burnwillows, Academy Ruins, etc.). Back to Basics has the same effect, assuming it resolves. What are your thoughts on the switch? The deck also picks up a three drop to do it.

Cheers,
Jimmy

[DragoFireheart]

What the hell happened? I thought this was U/W Super friends?

Did a Miracle happen? The long lost love of Hanni finally gets the recognition it deserves?

I don't think Stoneblade is going anywhere. It's a U/W mid-range deck that has decent matchups against most of the field. If it does leave, it will take 3 months before U/W Miracle Control takes over.

[Teknique]

For those of you with experience running this card, is Porphyry Nodes a real bomb against aggro out of the sideboard?

Not a "real bomb" but can be very good, yes. More than 1 is likely wrong because it has no immediate effect, it doesn't go into effect until your next turn. Against a developing Maverick board it can be brutal, also against a couple of mongeese it's fantastic. Just make sure you have other ways to live before it starts sniping things.

[JimmyC27]

@Teknique: Would you rather have Humility or Nodes?

[DragoFireheart]

@Teknique: Would you rather have Humility or Nodes?

I know this question wasn't aimed at me, but Humility. Nodes doesn't answer things right away and Humility is hilarious to drop against SnT decks. It also stops their Pridemages from blowing it up.