Hollywood can probably answer this in more detail, but in short: As it was said earlier, the choice boils down to how many lands you play. With 8 gold lands and none in the board (ala Quadlazer), Nether Shadow is the correct choice. For me, 2 Ghoul is perfect because I really don't want to hit multiples as I can really only ever reliably return one a turn. His power is very relevant as well; as against grindy matches like stoneblade, that 3 power can make or break you. He also trades with Delvers, Mongeese, Hatebears, and Mystics, which can be helpful.Originally Posted by Mindlash
Edit: Beaten haha.
Last edited by iPhael; 06-15-2012 at 04:54 PM. Reason: nath'd
No point in being completely unprepared for Peacekeeper when all it requires is -1 Golgari Thug for +1 Darkblast, you can't always blow the opponent out of the game thru' Force of Will, Spell Pierce and Daze on the draw afterall.
@Nether Shadow
The problem with Nether Shadow is that it requires Dread Return, and Dread Return requires specialized targets, in order to be useful where Ashen Ghoul doesn't require Dread Return to beat down vs decks that disrupt you with more attrition based hate ala Tormod's Crypt and differentiates your threats vs Surgical Extraction without ever leaving any part of your deck useless to RFG i.e. Dread Return targets without Dread Returns or maybe Dread Return without Golgari Gravetroll.
Quadlaser has 3 lands in board.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Until I see Peacekeeper pop up in my local meta - which I haven't ever, come to think of it - I'm not wasting a sideboard slot for Darkblast.
The difference between the Golgari Thug and the Darkblast is negligible in the MD, you don't have to spend a SB slot on it.
Ichorid says you are wrong.
Because fueling ichorid, especially in a list that cuts pimp, is never an issue...
@Hollywood: could you give an idea of some of your boarding? For example against rug do you attempt the Dr for fkz or do you bring in ghouls and play a slower game? Do you ever board out all your DR? Is fkz only the plan game one against noncombo decks or are there control or aggro decks that the fkz kill remains your plan a? Do you always board in some nature claims/vapors or are there some decks you don't care what hate they run? Thanks in advance and sorry for lots of Qs, just want to get some good Convo about sb plans going.
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
General question to all:
What does your hand have to look like Game 2 in order for you to decide to keep it?
NOTE: Apply this to whatever Sideboard configuration you have of course.
Depends on the matchup.
Some hands I would keep game 2/3 and not game 1 are ones that are land and draw effect heavy irregardless if it has dredgers or not.
Between 3 Ichorids, 4 Putrid Imp, 4 Stinkweed Imp and 2 Golgari Thug I haven't noticed a significant problem, I think you guys are failing to consider Dark Blasts role as a sacrifice outlet on Narcomoeba, creature removal vs Maverick and as a Dredger that can discard itself, the -1 Dredge and one less black creature for Ichorid is a fair trade for the utility and diversifies vs Surgical Extraction.
I don't really understand the impudence, Dark Blast isn't new tech and Peacekeeper is out there. Albeit in marginal numbers, there's no reason not to shore up a potential weakness in the deck with a marginal utility exchange between a 3rd Golgari Thug and 1 Dark Blast.
1. Maverick
2. Sneak and Show
3. RUG Delver/Canadian Thresh
4. StoneBlade
5. BUG Control/Tempo Variants
Game 2:
1. Against Maverick you want a blistering fast hand, something with LED in it. This is a particularly nice way to win game 3's.
2. Something disrupt heavy, with Putrid Imp + Cabal Therapy(s). You ideally want a Claim/Chain because of LotV, or lots of card filter. If they don't start with LotV, then their hand is probably loaded with a quick Show and Tell with FoW backup.
3. This is the matchup I would keep a hand with lots of lands and draw effects. They can be fast with delver, but generally aren't. You want to render their wastelands and taxing counterspells useless. Depending on if they use extraction or crypt, affects how I play this one out.
4. Surgical Extraction is almost a given in this matchup. A hand with a Cabal Therapy and more gas than lands is ideal here.
5. I don't get to playtest this one much, but is generally an easier one unless they use Leyline of the Void.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever. A "marginal" weakness against Dredge isn't worth the time or critical design space to shore up a one or two of creature that sees little to no play. Dredge can win and should win before such a creature hits the table in even the most precarious situations by stripping it from an opponent's hand.
Either way, it's really a card that, unless you see enough of it, shouldn't be an issue for most Dredge players. I just fail to see what a singular Darkblast is going to realistically do in a match-up you already probably have a favorable win-percentage against anyhow (U/w/x, U/w). Darkblast is fine, but unless you're seeing Peacekeeper on a regular basis, it is not worth the space.
My board right now is in a state of flux, with some configurations being considered (hopefully) for the GP. Against RUG, I bring in Ghouls and play a somewhat "grindier" strategy, but I still try and go for the knockout punch. I also board into Memory's Journey and Grudge in case of Crypt - which should see more play in RUG lists and has been recently. What you board out for those is entirely up to you, but I tend to shift the Breakthroughs and whatever else I feel is unnecessary to the board.@Hollywood: could you give an idea of some of your boarding? For example against rug do you attempt the Dr for fkz or do you bring in ghouls and play a slower game? Do you ever board out all your DR? Is fkz only the plan game one against noncombo decks or are there control or aggro decks that the fkz kill remains your plan a? Do you always board in some nature claims/vapors or are there some decks you don't care what hate they run? Thanks in advance and sorry for lots of Qs, just want to get some good Convo about sb plans going.
I have been toying with shifting DR to the board, but I'm not sure. I suppose it depends on the match-up.
So Chris Anderson and Adam prosak both finished the invi in top 40 with dredge. They were running very similar lists, one difference being chranderson's use of flayer main. I've been testing with fkz but may give flayer a shot to free up the sb slot. Flayer still enables same turn wins but doesn't require the red zone like fkz does. Of course same turn kills with flayer are not nearly as easy I would imagine.
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
They see me (t)rolling..
Local tourney, 18 players
4. out of 18
1:2 High Tide ( i missplayed, i had lethal, he had turn about, high tide, cunning wish and five lands, i took the wish and he topdecked time spiral... happens )
2:0 MUD
2:0 4c Goodstuff (paired up )
2:0 U/R Delver
2:0 Merfolk ( paired down )
4-1
I'm 4th due to my High Tide opponent dropped and i had a bad oppscore. Otherwise 2nd -.-
Played again Quadlaser + Ashen Ghoul board.
That's definitely the way i go. ( you should, too )
K1w1
My colors are... ZONK!
You haven't any colors. You play Dredge.
You love games, which are unfair. You hate Reanimator & NicFit.
At good days, you destroy everything. At bad days,
you draw Narcomoebas. But the most important thing:
Everybody hates you!
Hi guys,
I played a few tournaments the last three weeks and this are the results:
Iserlohn: 7th out of 67 players (5-2-0)
GPT: 1st after swiss out of 28 players, lost in Top 8 (4-0-1/4-1-1)
Dülmen: 7th out of about 50 players (4-1-1)
It was the Quadlaser-list with Ashen Ghoul-SB I used. The overall-record with the deck since I played it first in April is 31-11-4, which is quite okay I think.
Actually I really haven't any issues that the deck pisses on me. Normally it works out really nice. My Mulligan-rate is also really low.
GP Ghent 2012 - 37th out of 1,345
Bazaar of Moxen VI 2012 - Vintage - Winner out of 337
Maintal Legacy April 2012 - Top 8 out of 127
Bazaar of Moxen V 2011 - Legacy - Top 4 out of 633
Bazaar of Moxen V 2011 - Legacy last chance trial - Top 16 out of 146
GP Gothenburg 2010 Side Event Legacy - Top 16 out of 132
Earned 3 byes by winning a GPT with non-LED Dredge (same list as post #976), went undefeated on the back of Memory's Journey!!! I faced Crypt, Relic, Ooze, Knight of the Reliquary, Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre and I'm pretty happy with my sideboard - also having Tireless Tribe rocks!!!
0.05.14 [Digital Devil] <Digital Devil> Ach! Hans, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!
0.05.17 [Hans (GER)] <Hans (GER)> ...
0.05.20 [<System>] <System> Player Lost
I'm really glad to see this. Cheers!
How was Firestorm for you?
Would you change the list?
Congratz!
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