Miracle Control

[Jay_Gatz]

- is a good out vs opposing counterbalance ( make X= 3, 4 or more )

Repeal only bounces cmc X not X or less

[Kaslan]

Repeal only bounces cmc X not X or less

oups ! ture that ...

[JimmyC27]

Land Tax got unbanned, but I don't think that affects this deck.

[Antonius]

Land Tax got unbanned, but I don't think that affects this deck.

That depends upon your rendition. If you're running 8+ basic lands, I would say it's definitely a consideration.

further, cards like Brainstorm and Scroll Rack are already pretty good with the marquee cards of this deck. They're also really good with Land Tax. Internal synergy is nice.

[Humphrey]

I think Scroll Rack is too clunky, but Tax is fine as 2 of I think. It synergizes enough with Brainstorm and Jace

[Antonius]

I think Scroll Rack is too clunky, but Tax is fine as 2 of I think. It synergizes enough with Brainstorm and Jace

It also turns the thresh matchup upside down every time it resolves on turn 1.

[Teknique]

It also turns the thresh matchup upside down every time it resolves on turn 1.

But that's exactly one of the reasons it doesn't seem good. You are resorting to making a play that is pretty much only good turn 1 in that matchup, making their dazes active, and reducing your maindeck active cards by 2. And if you're on the play, they will drop 1 land and just kill you while you're waiting for them to play a second before you.

This deck can't afford to play the waiting game on all axes; We can be responsive, but we absolutely can not deprive ourselves of mana.

[JimmyC27]

Land Tax makes Vedalken Shackles better, and produces more angels off Entreat. I think my issue with the card would be deciding what to cut. My lists already feels pretty tight.

[Antonius]

But that's exactly one of the reasons it doesn't seem good. You are resorting to making a play that is pretty much only good turn 1 in that matchup, making their dazes active, and reducing your maindeck active cards by 2. And if you're on the play, they will drop 1 land and just kill you while you're waiting for them to play a second before you.

This deck can't afford to play the waiting game on all axes; We can be responsive, but we absolutely can not deprive ourselves of mana.

not really, my dude. If you draw the land play the land. What, are you afraid of them searching up tropicals and volcanics when land tax triggers in their favor?

another reason to play land tax: you're already running top. MAKE THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT WAIT

[JimmyC27]

It seems decent in the sideboard for opposing control decks or mirrors.

[JimmyC27]

not really, my dude. If you draw the land play the land. What, are you afraid of them searching up tropicals and volcanics when land tax triggers in their favor?

another reason to play land tax: you're already running top. MAKE THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT WAIT

I think Land Tax only works for its controller, and only fetches basics. So even if it did work for Threshold, they wouldn't have any basics to search up.

[Teknique]

not really, my dude. If you draw the land play the land. What, are you afraid of them searching up tropicals and volcanics when land tax triggers in their favor?

another reason to play land tax: you're already running top. MAKE THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT WAIT

Land tax triggers in their favor? For obvious reasons I've never played with it but I was under the impression it's one sided, no?

So my point is, why play a card (2 of them) that is purely situational, and could potentially be dead? *Dead if your argument is to just play lands you draw, therefore nullifying any effect Land Tax would ever have that game.

[Humphrey]

not really, my dude. If you draw the land play the land. What, are you afraid of them searching up tropicals and volcanics when land tax triggers in their favor?

another reason to play land tax: you're already running top. MAKE THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT WAIT

Tax doesnt trigger for the opponent dude

[Antonius]

I think Land Tax only works for its controller, and only fetches basics. So even if it did work for Threshold, they wouldn't have any basics to search up.

that was the point.

but I'm misremembering EDH experiences with these stupid white cards. Smoked too much weed playing Oath of Lieges.

@Teknique: that's beside the point; it's all redundancy. Having land tax on the board more or less fixes all of the flaws that tundras/wastelands/fetchlands have laid upon you when you're matched up against Thresh.
And I don't think it's a dead card. It makes brainstorm a lot better, as Hawks do.

[Koby]

MAKE THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT WAIT

This is why i'm going to be playing combo in July...

Anyways, Land Tax seems like a good addition to the sweet list of good cards, but this isn't the deck to really get a ton of mileage out of it. It's a nice trick.

[Water_Wizard]

Agreed. I'm sure someone will brew up a list to abuse Land Tax, but it will most likely be a white stax list with Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Smokestack, and Armageddon, or a list that wants to abuse Seismic Assault, possibly with the help of Life from the Loam.

I think Land Tax is really only solid as a 4-of, because as Teknique mentions, you really only want it on the opening turn. Additionally, against a Thresh list, Land Tax feels bad because they can play with much less mana than UW. What are you going to do when they go first turn Mongoose, you go first turn Land Tax, and they don't drop their 2nd land? Land Tax is a very reactive card with some stringent deck-building requirements, but it is powerful in nature (as is any virtual draw 3). I image if a deck is built to 'break' Land Tax, people will just start playing their lands much more frugally or Ankh of Mishra will see play :)

I understand the temptation to Land Tax-cestral, shuffling away 2 unwanted lands with Brainstorm or Jace, the the realistic response from most opponents is just not to play anymore lands, or to play more non-land mana-producing alternatives.

I guess Steppe Lynx just found his best friend...

EDIT: I've been thinking about this some more and I don't think UW Miracles is the deck that wants to break Land Tax. In order to benefit from Land Tax, we need to be able to do something with those extra cards. Brainstorming away extra lands is a little convoluted (turn 1 Land Tax off a Tundra, turn 2 Brainstorm, fetch?). Also, if we're playing first, we want to hit our land drops, not intentionally miss the 2nd land drop in hopes the opponent will play his/her second land. Do people really play the third creature when Defense of the Heart is in play?
In order to Jace away extra lands, we need to already have 4 lands in play, and most opposing decks can stop developing their mana curves before this.
While UW Miracles does run the requisite color and does run basics, the benefits of Land Tax do not fit this deck. UW Miracles wants to make every land drop. You're better off with Ponder to help smooth your land drops than running a Land Tax. Additionally, Land Tax in a deck without artifact mana acceleration is only really solid on the draw, and in a deck like UW, it would most likely lead to discarding 2 land cards at the end of turn 2 (assuming you selected the full 3).

In addition to the decks I listed above, I could see a 43-Lands shell with Exploration and Manabond doing well with Land Tax (plus that deck runs Mox Diamond) or a White Weenie deck with Flagstones of Trokair that uses Land Tax mainly as a deck thinning agent possibly with some Armageddons to shake things up (Armageddon + Thalia = some good).

[klaus]

Alright, so here's my take on Land Tax. Spells that flow well with LT are marked "+LT"

4 Land Tax
4 BS +LT
3 Terminus
1 SCM +LT (BS)
1 Scroll Rack+LT
3 Jace +LT
3 EtA
4 FOW
4 Top
3 Daze +LT
3 CB
2 STP
2 Path +LT

4 Mox Diamond +LT
3 Chrome Mox +LT (it's nice to pitch early game EtAs and surplus LTes)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
6 Islands +LT
2 Plains +LT

SB:
X B2B

Not sure if it's cooler than regular Miracle Control. I guess I'll give it a spin on MWS later tonight..

EDIT:
Eff this shaz - I'm sticking with straight UW-MC.

[blueneverfails]

I would love to see lists with LT and see some testing, but I am not getting my hopes up. Miracle control decks and LT are complete opposites. The whole point of LT is to use the trigger more than once and use the lands in ways to get more cards, which is the whole thing with scrack. But the whole reason why that worked especially when it got banned in extended was because the deck could play on 2-3 lands only and excel, but this deck would hate that. To spend the first turn to possibly get one trigger to me sounds like a bad idea. This deck needs to play very tight the first couple of turns to make sure the game goes to late game mode where we excel. adding LT would change your moves by leaving the first turn open because u cant play sdt or brainstorm etc, and gives your opponent a chance to win quicker.

Not to say that LT wouldn't work, I just don't think in this style of deck. I do see an LT deck that has miracle cards in it will work because there is synergy, but it wont be a miracle control deck.

[Water_Wizard]

+1

I agree. Land Tax has dis-synergies with the current build of UW Miracles. In UW Miracles, you really want to hit your first 3-4 land drops, and Land Tax is too reliant upon artifact mana, play/draw, and your opponent playing more lands than you.

I could see a Miracle deck that abuses Land Tax. Something along the lines of UWR Miracles with Land Tax, Scroll Rack, Sensei's Diving Top, Mox Diamond, Brainstorm, Jace, and Back to Basics. However, that is a different deck, for a different thread.

For those of you trying to break Land Tax (klaus plus others), good luck. And keep us posted...

[Einherjer]

I do need some help on my list, this is what I am playing right now

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
3 Tundra
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
2 Tropical Island
1 Karakas

4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
1 Oblivion-Ring

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Entreat the Angels

2 Venilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage

-Sideboard-
2 Meddling Mage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Humility
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Engineered Explosives

I played 22 lands for a 60 card deck. Then I splashed a color and added the 23rd card --> 61st card. I am not really happy with it and I am not sure what to cut.
The voice of reason tells me that 3 Spell Pierce would be rather neat aswell but how to squeeze this into it? The O-Ring is a neat G1 feature against SneakAttack and other permanents I couldn't deal with. 2 Snappy 2 Clique are the minimum Id play with those, so no cuts here either. I really have no idea how to trim this to 60 while putting in a Spell Pierce while not destroying my deck-concept...

Any good ideas?
Thanks in advance!

Greetings