[Deck] Burn

[Rubik's Man]

To beat Griselbrand, I find that Vexing Devil is great at helping at least to get opponents down to 7 before they can activate his ability. I'll grant that I have no experience with systematic testing but given the recent growth of Reanimator and Sneak Show, I wouldn't run fewer than 3 and have had good experiences. I would rather cut Lavamancer to fit them in than Keldon Marauders, which guarantees 2 damage once it resolves, provides 3 more potentially, and can play the role of chump blocker for opposing fatties like Goyf and Knight of the Reliquary. I also think that Hellspark Elemental is important to keep in for dodging counterspells and discard, in addition to providing reach similar to what Lavamancer can offer. Grim Lavamancer, however, tends to hit only for 1 each turn until the lategame, likely to be blocked and unlikely to survive. In the current metagame, he likely either faces a removal spell or you're playing a combo deck without removal, in which case he's a dead card anyway.

Though he wins our hardest matchup, Vexing Devil always comes out against anyone with Swords to Plowshares, usually for Sulfuric Vortex and some combination of Sulfuric Vortex, Smash to Smithereens, and Red Elemental Blast (depending on which deck exactly I'm against).

Also, remember that Pyroblast can more easily be Misdirected, which we can easily fix with the switch to REB. While Pyroblast can hit any target just to get threshold in a pinch, we can afford to miss out on that more than we can afford to have it hit with a Misdirection.

I was wrong about the Misdirection/Red Elemental Blast thing; ignore it.

[Viridia]

REB can be Misdirected aswell by misdirecting it to the Misdirection itself

[Rubik's Man]

REB can be Misdirected aswell by misdirecting it to the Misdirection itself

I'm embarrassed. Thank you for letting me know.

[paeng4983]

Hello there burn thread.
I played yesterday in a small legacy at Mindstorm Shop (QC). We had it 5 rds with T4 play-offs. Unfortunately for me I wasn't able to make the cut because I lost my 1st two games against RUG because of mana flood. Then managed to win all my last three assignments (junk, ur infect and RUG). Thus landing 9th or tenth, I think I was. Ensnaring bridge (EB) was my MVP, halting lethal blows from delver, tarmo, nimble, blighted agent, KOTR, etc. I decided to put EBs in the MD because I was expecting sneaky show and other fatty creature base decks to be around.
Anyway, here's my list.

12 R fetches
9 mountain
4 guide
4 grim
4 L.bolt
4 c.lightning
4 lave spike
4 rift bolt
4 pop
4 fireblast
3 sulfuric vortex
4 ensnaring bridge

SB
3 pyrostatic pillar
4 seering blaze
3 smash to smithereens
3 REB
2 anarchy

[DragoFireheart]

Has anyone had any success using a only basic lands as the only permanents and the rest as instants/sorceries for the main deck (no Goblin Guide, Sulfuric Vortex, Keldon Marauders, etc)?

[CabalTherapy]

Has anyone had any success using a only basic lands as the only permanents and the rest as instants/sorceries for the main deck (no Goblin Guide, Sulfuric Vortex, Keldon Marauders, etc)?

This isn't possible in a high-speed format such as Legacy anymore.

[paeng4983]

Has anyone had any success using a only basic lands as the only permanents and the rest as instants/sorceries for the main deck (no Goblin Guide, Sulfuric Vortex, Keldon Marauders, etc)?

This is possible, but I think most of the time, you'll end up losing the game because of two reasons: (i) not enough mana was given for you to cast the spells in your hand, and (ii) too much mana was given, not even a single burn spell was given.

^_^

I think with the meta right now, MD ensnaring bridge is a good call for burn users.
From my list, Im thinking of removing the guides replacing them with incinerate (maybe) or any other good burn spells out there, then retaining the 3 vortexes, 4 bridges and 4 grims are my permanents (aside from the lands). Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

[rufus]

Has anyone had any success using a only basic lands as the only permanents and the rest as instants/sorceries for the main deck (no Goblin Guide, Sulfuric Vortex, Keldon Marauders, etc)?

I'd think you run into issues with card quality and reach. I always wonder about piling in a bunch of 'free' cantrips in with the burn and see how far it gets, but I think it ends up terrible:

'Freetrips'

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Manamorphose

3-for-1 Burn

4 Lighting Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

High Quality Burn

4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast

Lands

2 Barbarian Ring
14 Mountains


That still leaves 8 slots to fill, and It's hard to say no to stuff like Vexing Devil/Goblin Guide or even Immolating Souleater

[jares]

I'd think you run into issues with card quality and reach. I always wonder about piling in a bunch of 'free' cantrips in with the burn and see how far it gets, but I think it ends up terrible:

'Freetrips'

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Manamorphose

3-for-1 Burn

4 Lighting Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

High Quality Burn

4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast

Lands

2 Barbarian Ring
14 Mountains


That still leaves 8 slots to fill, and It's hard to say no to stuff like Vexing Devil/Goblin Guide or even Immolating Souleater

I have also explored this configuration in the past (as others have done before me), and have found it to be disappointing. I would encourage you to see for yourself, though, as I could certainly say that I did have fun in the process of discovering how this build works.

Cheers,
jares

[Basara]

we dont have another cards vs show and tell , sadly is a very difficult matchup for us ,

[paeng4983]

I use 4 ensnaring bridge in my MD, to help me fight sneaky show decks. And not just that, it also stops any creature during late games because most of the time you're not holding any card.
I also use 3 vortex in my MD, to help me fight those life gaining equipments.
I also increased to 21 lands (12 fetches and 9 basics), because I had 7 cards with 3cc.

:-)

[evanmartyr]

Admittedly I haven't read too deeply back into this thread, but I think a Maverick-heavy meta might warrant another look at Flamebreak. It tops the curve, but answers nearly all their usual creatures other than KotR, acts as a Searing Blaze for the entire board, and could be especially worthwhile in builds that are low on creatures.

As for a good answer to Sneak/Show, splashing blue for some Gilded Drakes is likely to be your best bet, since it's cheap, simple, and half the time they enable it themselves...your best bet other than ignoring the matchup completely, at least.

[Vandalize]

Admittedly I haven't read too deeply back into this thread, but I think a Maverick-heavy meta might warrant another look at Flamebreak. It tops the curve, but answers nearly all their usual creatures other than KotR, acts as a Searing Blaze for the entire board, and could be especially worthwhile in builds that are low on creatures.

As for a good answer to Sneak/Show, splashing blue for some Gilded Drakes is likely to be your best bet, since it's cheap, simple, and half the time they enable it themselves...your best bet other than ignoring the matchup completely, at least.

Isn't Flamebreak a little expensive? I mean, they run Thalia and Mom. Perhaps Pyroclasm does the same thing, but without the player-hit part.

[DarkAkuma]

Isn't Flamebreak a little expensive? I mean, they run Thalia and Mom. Perhaps Pyroclasm does the same thing, but without the player-hit part.

My burn is still somewhat more old school. I have a couple Flamebreaks in the main, and 2 more in the board. While I can't atest to their usefulness in match ups against the popular decks of the moment, in the past the doing damage to players was a bonus. Pyroclasym only hits creatures, in a deck that's basically designed to get the opponents life total to zero asap. Both Pyroclasm and Flamebreak help ensure your around in the game long enough to get that goal, but Flamebreak also moves towards it itself. I've won many games finishing with a Flamebreak with 0-1 creatures on board. You can see it as paying an additional cost of 3 life yourself. Its still worth it when it gets 2+ creatures, or helps get the kill shot.

[ToasTer86]

How do we deal with game breaking enchantments like

[leyline of the sanctity]
[chill]

[Viridia]

I don't think you can, Leyline can be raced if you get lucky with creatures and your opponent doesnt have too much removal.
And Chill only comes down on T3 so you can do some damage before that and hope you can finish them after.

[DarkAkuma]

How do we deal with game breaking enchantments like

[leyline of the sanctity]
[chill]

Things like Leyline of Sanctity is were understanding your meta game comes in. Every single slot in the sideboard is extremely valuable since so many cards that hate this deck out exist. Anarchy can work, but at 4cc it's of course harder to cast. Creatures too as mentioned. Vexing Devil shines here. Also cards like Flamebreak, Flame Rift, and Sulfuric Vortex don't target, if you're running them, though don't race well as they damage you just as much. And if this leyline is a real problem in your meta, you could maybe consider a minor color splash for Naturalize, Krosan Grip, or Disenchant.

For Chill. It sucks, but it's not game over if it lands. If you think it might hit play, make sure to keep a 3 land hand. Try to use blasts to keep it from hitting, though you will probably fail. But with access to 8, it can happen. Double Chill is when it really starts to hurt.

[slave]

In regards to Leyline;
I assume with all the Fetches people are running that this shouldn't be impossible to bring in from the SB in game 2.
Has anyone ever tried running Burning Wish and SB'ing answers like Reverent Silence?

I have another question too - seeing as how Burn decks almost always see more lands than they need after T3, has anyone got ways to use them as a weapon, similar to what Black does with Ravens' Crime? Other than Fireblast, I can't think of any.....

[david.gerco]

In regards to Leyline;
I assume with all the Fetches people are running that this shouldn't be impossible to bring in from the SB in game 2.
Has anyone ever tried running Burning Wish and SB'ing answers like Reverent Silence?

With Burning Wish we are getting to away from Burn's game plan....Really, its too much :)

I have another question too - seeing as how Burn decks almost always see more lands than they need after T3, has anyone got ways to use them as a weapon, similar to what Black does with Ravens' Crime? Other than Fireblast, I can't think of any.....

The only thing it comes to my mind is Flame Jab

[iamfrightenedtoo]

Countryside Crusher is amazing in Burn. especially because you do not need more than 3 lands for the deck to run optimally. Crusher also insures you never see a useless land again. I like it.