[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Esper3k]

Was thinking about Choke some more and another point is that it makes their Mind Harnesses (which I think is their best card against us) significantly worse.

[Fade]

Was thinking about Choke some more and another point is that it makes their Mind Harnesses (which I think is their best card against us) significantly worse.

I haven't seen Mind harness in a RUG sideboard in a long time but that's true. Most lists just run 4 Submerge as it's a free card and can get rid of our threat if you play into it.

[Esper3k]

RUG Delver is a favored matchup regardless both pre-board and post-board. So my reasoning is why bring in a 3 mana enchantment that plays into their Dazes / extra spell pierces when you could just play another threat? They also have their wasteland / stifle package to stunt our mana, bolt for the mana dork, and sometimes getting up to three mana is a struggle if you can't fetch for your basics.

Again, I'm not saying the card is bad but instead of playing all of them I only board in one or two if any at all.

Delver is the only creature you should be worried about because everything else is just smaller than a Knight/Ooze so it's pretty obvious to save removal or fetch up a maze to stop their clock.

I only play 2 Chokes (eTutor board) these days. I think we're generally in agreement that Choke is what comes in from the board last after our extra removal.

For me, I've been boarding:
-3 SFM
-2 Qasali
-1 Teeg
-2 Sylvan Library
-1 Thalia

+3 Path to Exile
+1 Maze of Ith
+2 Oblivion Ring (added these in as a concession to Sneaky Show)
+2 Choke

I have been thinking though, with less Spell Snares being played these days, if the SFM's should come in and all the Thalias come out.

[Esper3k]

I haven't seen Mind harness in a RUG sideboard in a long time but that's true. Most lists just run 4 Submerge as it's a free card and can get rid of our threat if you play into it.

Hah the RUG players in my meta all play like 4x Submerge, 2-3x Mind Harness. So much hate for us!

[M@verick]

I would side out always all thalias being on the draw. I dont want t loss against an early delver. I like gaddok in this MU, is the perfect card against his best removal, submerge. And not all players side out fows.
I also like choke. I usually side in 2 of 3

[Sarterus]

I would side out always all thalias being on the draw. I dont want t loss against an early delver. I like gaddok in this MU, is the perfect card against his best removal, submerge. And not all players side out fows.
I also like choke. I usually side in 2 of 3

I agree with leaving Gaddok in it is great against submerge. I like Thalia though also it slows down the deck manipulation and is a good attacker in a race. Although I play a faster version of Maverick with Nacatls.

Choke is junk against RUG many list play a Taiga and Daze lets them reset their land while it does nothing against their clocks. I would much rather have a maze or a Path to Exile which shines against a deck with no basics. I have been experimenting siding in an honorable passage for the bolts it can turn a race around.

[Esper3k]

I agree with leaving Gaddok in it is great against submerge. I like Thalia though also it slows down the deck manipulation and is a good attacker in a race. Although I play a faster version of Maverick with Nacatls.

Choke is junk against RUG many list play a Taiga and Daze lets them reset their land while it does nothing against their clocks. I would much rather have a maze or a Path to Exile which shines against a deck with no basics. I have been experimenting siding in an honorable passage for the bolts it can turn a race around.

No one is saying board in Choke over removal from the board.

I think Thalia is pretty bad in that matchup because:

1) It opens us up for more 2 for 1's from Forked Bolt
2) She is a terrible blocker (we're the control role in this matchup, we shouldn't be trying to race).
3) She doesn't actually slow them down very much since it doesn't keep them from playing creatures and they still have plenty of mana to use their removal on our guys.

[Valtrix]

I have been experimenting siding in an honorable passage for the bolts it can turn a race around.

Honestly, if you're that concerned about them I feel that Burrenton Forge-Tender would be stronger, since they can easily play around honorable passage. With tender on the other hand, you shut down all of their removal, which can open up ways to protect your creatures and make it difficult for them to deal with you. I particularly like how he protects SFM, and how forge-tender can put on equipment without RUG being able to answer your creature at all.

[xiaocho]

No one is saying board in Choke over removal from the board.

I think Thalia is pretty bad in that matchup because:

1) It opens us up for more 2 for 1's from Forked Bolt
2) She is a terrible blocker (we're the control role in this matchup, we shouldn't be trying to race).
3) She doesn't actually slow them down very much since it doesn't keep them from playing creatures and they still have plenty of mana to use their removal on our guys.

lies.

what are u talking about? the matchup against RUG Delver?

Thalia is one of our best cards in this match up.

RUG Delver's specialty is to be able to operate on 2 lands (tropical + volcanic). If u increase the spells cost the deck becomes less efficient.

[Esper3k]

lies.

what are u talking about? the matchup against RUG Delver?

Thalia is one of our best cards in this match up.

RUG Delver's specialty is to be able to operate on 2 lands (tropical + volcanic). If u increase the spells cost the deck becomes less efficient.

You're kidding, right?

While increasing the cost of their non-creature spells (since Thalia does absolutely nothing to stop Mongoose, Delver, or Goyf) is nice, she doesn't matter in the long run since you can't stack multiple of her effects to really lock them out.

So while it now costs them 2 to Forked Bolt Thalia + Arbor / Hierarch / Mom, they can still do it fairly easily.

Again, as a creature, Thalia can't block any of their creatures nor can she race any of them.

[xiaocho]

no, RUG players seriously hate Thalia.

It slows them down and thats all u want to achieve.

I'm pretty sure I've read something regarding thalia and her usefulness against RUG at starcitygames. Unfortunately I couldnt find it.

[Koby]

What Thalia does:
Forces RUG to continue playing lands. This is at the expense of saving lands in hand to Brainstorm away. It also means not being able to play Ponder, find Bolt, play Bolt with any less than 4 mana. It means Daze now costs and a land drop.

Thalia is great against RUG, but terrible against their creatures. Luckily, we have Jitte and StP and Mother of Runes and Knight of the Fatass-wastery

[M@verick]

In theory, thalia is the perfect card against RUG tempo. But i didnt find that good when I tested, specially being on the draw. If your opponent has battlefield advantatge, playing thalia is a bad idea, because is hardest for us resolving a solution against his creatures: stp, GSZ, jitte... the opponent just need to defense his advantate to win, and we are going to fall in all dazes, pierces, and stifles, cause we are hurry up.

[Koby]

Being on the draw against RUG is the bigger problem. I don't think it's just Thalia that suffers. In my recent testing, many decks lose to a decent RUG opener while being on the draw.

[Esper3k]

Damn that T1 Delver.

So good!

[Esper3k]

Also, a reason I don't like Thalia is because she makes their Forked Bolts (which are already very good against us) usually a guaranteed 2 for 1.

In a matchup where we're generally going to win by grinding them out, she doesn't really help with that plan when she's generating card disadvantage for us.

[Tacosnape]

Lots of talk about RUG Delver. You don't have to do a lot of drastic things to make this matchup better. Just metagame a little. Consider the following:

1. If you aren't playing a single copy of Sylvan Safekeeper, just go try it. It's seriously so stupidly amazingly clutch. It's pretty solid in the RUG Delver matchup, both for burn protection and for getting a Knight of the Reliquary far past their ability to keep one under control. I've outraced turn one Delvers with turn three Knights because of Safekeeper mass-sacrifices before.

2. Play more Scavenging Oozes. They're such a problem for Mongoose and Tarmogoyf both if they get going.

3. Toss in an extra Path or two on top of your STP's so you can laser the turn one Delvers more reliably.

4. Maindeck the Maze. If Knight's your control guy, let him do his job better.

5. Board a single copy of Matsu-Tribe Sniper. Yes, I'll wait while you go gatherer that. (Taps foot...) Okay? Okay. Efficient little dude. Ices down Delvers, Emrakuls, and Griselbrands. Kills Cliques. If you don't want to do this, then just play a second Scryb Ranger.

[Koby]

5. Board a single copy of Matsu-Tribe Sniper. Yes, I'll wait while you go gatherer that. (Taps foot...) Okay? Okay. Efficient little dude. Ices down Delvers, Emrakuls, and Griselbrands. Kills Cliques. If you don't want to do this, then just play a second Scryb Ranger.

Don't forget he also nukes Spirits like he's a Ghostbuster.

[Esper3k]

5. Board a single copy of Matsu-Tribe Sniper. Yes, I'll wait while you go gatherer that. (Taps foot...) Okay? Okay. Efficient little dude. Ices down Delvers, Emrakuls, and Griselbrands. Kills Cliques. If you don't want to do this, then just play a second Scryb Ranger.

Rofl that guy is awesome.

I haven't gotten around to testing it, but I wanted to give Ulvenwald Tracker a spin...

[from Cairo]

Rofl that guy is awesome.

I haven't gotten around to testing it, but I wanted to give Ulvenwald Tracker a spin...

I wasn't impressed with Ulvenwald Tracker. I found Thornscape Apprentice to be better. This Sniper duder from Betrayers doesn't strike me as much stronger unless you're seeing a ton of Lingering Souls.

In an unknown/normal meta I'd sooner run additional Path to Exiles than tie up slots with tappers.