All B/R update speculation.

[KobeBryan]

What they really need is a chain of mephistophles on a thalia body.

[Michael Keller]

Since Wotc already screwed up with the color pie in the past, I guess the solution that would make everyone happy here would be to reprint brainstorm in red, green, white and black.

Yeah, that just isn't going to happen.

[Lejay]

I know.

[xfxf]

Whatever hate you will print, blue will always have answers and usual find them faster because of library manipulation and draw. So lets get back and discuss the powerlevel of Brainstorm.

In regards to GP Atlanta Top 8:

Quarterfinals
Charbelcher vs Esperblade
RUG Delver vs Goblins
Maverick vs UW Delverblade
Zombies vs ?

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah better yet though 0 Griselbrand 0 Show and Tell in the top 8. Owen almost got there with Reanimator but ended up 10th.

[DragoFireheart]

In the last days I came to the conclusion DragoFireheart is not the brightest, based on his postings.

- You can stop projecting and actually contribute to the discussion whenever you are ready pumpkin.

Responding to this shit just perpetuates it. In the future, report it and forget it. -zilla

Yeah better yet though 0 Griselbrand 0 Show and Tell in the top 8. Owen almost got there with Reanimator but ended up 10th.

- Looks like Griselbrand and SnT are fine. So I guess nothing does need to be banned as of now. I'm happy to see Goblins slowing coming back. I don't know if they will be a powerful force again like way back when, but it means that if goblins can reach the top 8 here and there, then other non-blue also have this possibly.

I still say WotC unbans Earthcraft next. I want my army of squirrel tokens.

[dontbiteitholmes]

-
- Looks like Griselbrand and SnT are fine. So I guess nothing does need to be banned as of now. I'm happy to see Goblins slowing coming back. I don't know if they will be a powerful force again like way back when, but it means that if goblins can reach the top 8 here and there, then other non-blue also have this possibly.

I still say WotC unbans Earthcraft next. I want my army of squirrel tokens.

Yeah unbanning Earthcraft seems like the next logical move. Land Tax actually broke top 32 though, consider me shocked.

[Vacrix]

The problem with Earthcraft is that it will actually get played somewhere. Mind's Desire, however, is purely TES wishboard material. I think its much safer than Earthcraft, though Earthcraft is also safe. I think its the next one to go.

[Julian23]

Hmmm...guess changing my signature hit the nail on the head

[Gheizen64]

Hmmm...guess changing my signature hit the nail on the head

Only that actually Earthcraft would probably see some fringe play. No love for Bad Vise ?

[(nameless one)]

If Modern is allowed to have Kiki-Mite-Twin-Exarch combo, why can't Legacy have Squirrel Army combo?

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

If Modern is allowed to have Kiki-Mite-Twin-Exarch combo, why can't Legacy have Squirrel Army combo?

Squirrels aren't really the best thing to do with it. Sacred Mesa is a much better choice in the only deck I could see playing it (Enchantress), because it already "fits in" as a win condition, makes flying doodz, and if you have a Serra's Sanctum out instead of a Wild Growth'd Plains/Sprawled Forest you now have an infinite mana combo to fuel any sort of last minute defenses.

Still, I don't know if I'd even play Earthcraft much in Enchantress. Yeah, the interaction with Argothian is great, and moreso if you have a Sanctum out...but the card doesn't really shore up bad matchups or speed up the deck; it's kind of a "win more" card. If the deck most suited to Earthcraft* can't make great use of it, I guess it really does deserve an unban. But wait until I can pick up a bunch for cheap and sell them for 60% of the ungodly price they are jacked up to the first few days after unban and still make out like a bandit.

*No, Elves wouldn't like this much. Far less consistency for a minuscule power boost. None of it's tutors (GSZ, Living Wish) can fetch it, and the deck is already "tight" enough.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

In regards to GP Atlanta Top 8:

Didn't every Brainstorm player knock out every non-Brainstorm player in the top 8? I think the game totals were 8-1 too.

I mean I'm just saying, this isn't your best anecdote for Brainstorm not being OP.

[Dark Ritual]

Squirrels aren't really the best thing to do with it. Sacred Mesa is a much better choice in the only deck I could see playing it (Enchantress), because it already "fits in" as a win condition, makes flying doodz, and if you have a Serra's Sanctum out instead of a Wild Growth'd Plains/Sprawled Forest you now have an infinite mana combo to fuel any sort of last minute defenses.

Still, I don't know if I'd even play Earthcraft much in Enchantress. Yeah, the interaction with Argothian is great, and moreso if you have a Sanctum out...but the card doesn't really shore up bad matchups or speed up the deck; it's kind of a "win more" card. If the deck most suited to Earthcraft* can't make great use of it, I guess it really does deserve an unban. But wait until I can pick up a bunch for cheap and sell them for 60% of the ungodly price they are jacked up to the first few days after unban and still make out like a bandit.

*No, Elves wouldn't like this much. Far less consistency for a minuscule power boost. None of it's tutors (GSZ, Living Wish) can fetch it, and the deck is already "tight" enough.

Elves would be fine with earthcraft. So any 1 drop is free with nettle sentinel in play? Sign me up. Also, RTC earthcraft only untaps basic lands. So going 'infinite' with a sanctum/cradle isn't possible. You can go infinite with a land with double sprawl/wild growth on it or something, although I don't see the need to do that as you're getting 1948934930 tokens anyways. But I agree, earthcraft could easily leave the banned list it's just that the DCI thinks unbannings should occur every 2 years or for some long period of time. At the rate cards are getting unbanned, it will take another 10 years for all the cards that are safe to be unbanned to be unbanned. Namely black vise, mind twist, earthcraft, desire, etc. etc.

[dunk]

Hmmm...guess changing my signature hit the nail on the head

You should change your first point to "discuss the banning of brainstorm".

@DarkRitual:
Black Vise is not safe to unban. The only thing it would do is making fast aggro playable again, but for the price of nearly every blue deck becoming unplayable. At least unless they unban Mental Misstep, too...

[Vacrix]

@DarkRitual:
Black Vise is not safe to unban. The only thing it would do is making fast aggro playable again, but for the price of nearly every blue deck becoming unplayable. At least unless they unban Mental Misstep, too...

Uhh what? It would only be really good against the slowest control decks that sit on more than 4 cards regularly. Otherwise the blue combo decks can go off before its more than a Bolt, and Tempo decks can comfortably sit on 4 or 5 cards.

[Humphrey]

We had the Vise discussion before. Vise is 5 dmg for , potentially more against slower decks. Abusable by Burn, Tempo and Prisondecks

[Gheizen64]

We had the Vise discussion before. Vise is 5 dmg for , potentially more against slower decks. Abusable by Burn, Tempo and Prisondecks

We had this discussion before. Vise is useless in Burn, Tempo and Prison (that actually doesn't exist). Vise is useless on the draw and on any turn that isn't the first. Vise is useless against reanimator, RUG and Maverick, the actual top tier of the format.

Card was good against Jameydae Tomes.

EDIT: not sure if you're just sarcastic or not, because all the discussion that was had http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ack-Vise/page4 and here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...B-R-List/page8 pointed to Vise being unplayable.

[Julian23]

People play Black Vise, you don't have the Force of Will for it, you die. That's not the kind of Magic I want to play. Against other decks, it's just a bad and conditional Burnspell.
In general, it promotes variance. There will always be players who will try to make it on the back of variance, people are gonna play it because they hate control.

[Vacrix]

I think its about time aggro decks got some solid hate for control decks. 7 out of 8 decks in DTB run Brainstorm and Force of Will. I honestly don't see it getting any better with cards as powerful as Show and Tell, Snapcaster and Delver.