[DTB] Sneak Attack

[Suneloon]

First timer post, fairly new to SneakandShow. I have a few question/need a few tips about SB. In our meta we have a few Deadguy/BUG decks and i often tend too lose those games.

My SB;
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Pyroclasm
2 Blood Moon
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Leyline of Sanctity

I take in 4 Leyline of Sanctity against those decks but i really dont like to take a mulligan for digging after then.

Are then any options/cards i can use against those type of decks?

I've been toying around with stuff like Flusterstorm and Senseis top to combat BUG/deadguy etc. Just something you might try out for yourself :)

[delcameron]

For those of your who don't run Through the Breach in your SBs, what is your plan when you have to side out your Show and Tells? Like against Reanimator, the mirror match, or Twelvepost? (Yes, a few people regularly play Twelvepost here in Montreal...) Are just the four Sneak Attacks enough enablers to consistently land your fattie?

[delcameron]

And here's another: do you always side out your Intuitions - like 100% always? I know it's to avoid Surgical Extraction, but are there matchups where you are confident they don't have the Surgicals?

[rxavage]

And here's another: do you always side out your Intuitions - like 100% always? I know it's to avoid Surgical Extraction, but are there matchups where you are confident they don't have the Surgicals?

Most of us don't run Intuition and run Preordain or more counters instead. If you read the thread you will notice this has all been discussed, recently.

[lochlan]

Most of us don't run Intuition

Hmm. Maybe the people in this thread discussing the deck don't run Intuition, but if you look at lists that have actually achieved decent tournament results (both in the US and Europe), it seems that most people run at least 2x. Such results lead me to believe that at least 1x Intuition is correct. Cantripping is great, but you have to use those cantrips to find your win condition eventually--and Intuition acts as a virtual win con.

I mean, the card is almost an instant-speed Demonic Tutor.

I personally run 9x cantrips and 2x Intution, which has been working out well for me.

Anyway, sub-optimal card choices aside, you didn't answer his question!

@delcameron: Provided that I don't expect Surgical, I do not always side out my Intuitions. In such cases, typically I take out 1x in match-ups where I feel like it's too clunky but I would love to rip it late game.

For example, Reanimator (which does not play Surgical) is a deck that plays permission and is way way faster than me, so getting bogged down with 3-mana tutors is pretty bad--but on the other hand, you're going to have to remove 4x Show and Tell, so having additional win conditions is pretty necessary. It's hard to assemble a combo with only 2x Through the Breach and 4x Sneak Attack--I've found that having that single Intuition can really make a difference in cases like these.

[menace13]

For those of your who don't run Through the Breach in your SBs, what is your plan when you have to side out your Show and Tells? Like against Reanimator, the mirror match, or Twelvepost? (Yes, a few people regularly play Twelvepost here in Montreal...) Are just the four Sneak Attacks enough enablers to consistently land your fattie?

I havent tested the match up extensively and only played it a few times recently with Sneak. Has anyone jammed games against it repeatedly?
How many cards are brought in? 3-4 Grave hate, If you have Cliques they seem good EOT here, what else goes in?

Taking out all the Show And Tells might not be correct because it enables Sneak Attack earlier. Having the perfect 3 cards of Emrakul, SnT, and Sneak will beat anything Reanimator can Show and Tell out aside the single Archon. You never cast the Show and Tell without the 3 cards or without having hand information.

I almost always go down to 18 lands against anything without Stifle or Wastes by taking out Mountain, and Island if over 19 total. Rarely taking Petals out unless It's the mirror or some control decks where they are bringing in 7+ cards. Even then Petals almost always remain main decked to some number

Griselbrand is a liability against Thoughtseize into Reanimate/Animate Dead. Would cutting down on a few be wrong? Havent tried this.

[koba]

You take out all show and tells against reanimator. You do not want to go show and tell into sneak attack into griselbrand against a deck that plays 4 griselbrand.

Besides, after sideboarding with 4 cages and 2 through the breach, the matchup is fine, even in your favor I would say. You do not have to rely on drawing the perfect hand. If you have clique and counters, you side that in as well. Some people add bounce, but I do not like that.

As an aside, I would first take out a petal before siding out a land.

To answer the other questions: if you expect a lot of decks where through the breach would be useful (like it is in Montreal, so it seems), play with a few breaches on the side. Relying on just 4 sneak attacks to win is risky.

I do not always take out my two intuitions. First, decks like dredge, sneak show, elves or reanimator do not usually play with extraction, so they are still fine cards, a bit slow perhaps, but possibly better than your other options.

Second, against some other decks like maverick that do play extraction, I sometimes keep in one or two intuitions as well. It depends on whether I have better cards to side in for the cards I want to take out. I definitely want to side out misdirection and flusterstorm in this case and if I only have 7 cards to side in, I keep an intuition. They usually (and rightly so) use their extraction on ponder anyway.

[Johanovich]

For example, Reanimator (which does not play Surgical) is a deck that plays permission and is way way faster than me, so getting bogged down with 3-mana tutors is pretty bad--but on the other hand, you're going to have to remove 4x Show and Tell, so having additional win conditions is pretty necessary. It's hard to assemble a combo with only 2x Through the Breach and 4x Sneak Attack--I've found that having that single Intuition can really make a difference in cases like these.

You take out all show and tells against reanimator. You do not want to go show and tell into sneak attack into griselbrand against a deck that plays 4 griselbrand.

Besides, after sideboarding with 4 cages and 2 through the breach, the matchup is fine, even in your favor I would say. You do not have to rely on drawing the perfect hand. If you have clique and counters, you side that in as well. Some people add bounce, but I do not like that.

I do not always take out my two intuitions. First, decks like dredge, sneak show, elves or reanimator do not usually play with extraction, so they are still fine cards, a bit slow perhaps, but possibly better than your other options.

I usually play reanimator and I've noticed that some lists do run 2-3 surgicals in the sideboard. Also Against sneaky show I wouldn't say that the game advantage swings to sneaky show games 2 and 3. I usually bring in at least 2 pithing needle, 1 gilded drake and 3 echoing truth. Combined with archon and tyrant/angel of despair this gives a decent amount of outs so I'd rather say that it becomes 50/50 after sideboarding.

[lochlan]

I usually play reanimator and I've noticed that some lists do run 2-3 surgicals in the sideboard.

I have not seen that and I don't believe it's common at all, but given the card's popularity I will take your word for it that at least one pilot as tried out Extraction. However, between bounce and Pithing Needle, Reanimator doesn't really have the space to bring in graveyard removal vs. Sneaky Show.

Also Against sneaky show I wouldn't say that the game advantage swings to sneaky show games 2 and 3.

Kind of depends on your sideboard plan, no? But 4 Cages are VERY hard for Reanimator to beat. They have probably two or three bounce spells in the entire deck.

I usually bring in at least 2 pithing needle, 1 gilded drake and 3 echoing truth. Combined with archon and tyrant/angel of despair this gives a decent amount of outs so I'd rather say that it becomes 50/50 after sideboarding.

Reanimator playing Gilded Drake is totally worthless against Sneaky Show (as in: zero value) because Sneaky Show WILL board out Show and Tell.

Tyrant is a great card, but you can't get it out against a resolved Cage.

So you will, post board, have exactly three outs to a resolved Cage. Pithing Needle is NOT an out to Cage, it just gimps Sneak Attack almost as much as Cage gimps Reanimator. In that board state (which I have experienced many, many times) it all comes down to who can find their bounce quickest...but Sneaky Show also has TtB, so usually Sneaky Show has more ways to win with a Needle/Cage board state.

Post board 4x cage is unfavorable for Reanimator, but if you're like me and also bring in 2x bounce and 2x Karakas in addition to 4x Cage and 2x TtB then Reanimator typically has a very hard time winning.

[Johanovich]

I have not seen that and I don't believe it's common at all, but given the card's popularity I will take your word for it that at least one pilot as tried out Extraction. However, between bounce and Pithing Needle, Reanimator doesn't really have the space to bring in graveyard removal vs. Sneaky Show.

Check the reanimator threads here and on salvation. It was first used about half a year ago and some lists still play it now so it isn't the absolute oddity you think it is. Some sideboard examples from the threads:

4 Show and Tell
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Echoing Truth
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Submerge

4 Show and Tell
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Echoing Truth
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
2 Flusterstorm

Then also, my sideboard is the following:
3 show and tell
3 echoing truth
2 thoughtseize
2 spell pierce
2 pithing needle
1 gilded drake
1 inkwell leviathan
1 iona, shield of emeria

So game 2 (assuming you lost game 1) you can start with cage and the only out to that are the maindecked forces and the truths. But game 3 the chances of resolving and sticking a cage are slimmer because of the extra discard and extra counters plus the bounce.
Half of my creatures are also nonlegends thus karakas doesn't always spell game over.

I'm not saying that game 2 and 3 are easy for reanimator against sneak show, but it isn't a walk in the park for sneak as well. Just expect a fight.

[rxavage]

Looks like Overmaster is legit tech, according to Eli Kassis. When Hollywood mentioned it I thought it was cool but dismissed it, Eli's explanation has convinced me to try it.

[lochlan]

Check the reanimator threads here and on salvation. It was first used about half a year ago and some lists still play it now so it isn't the absolute oddity you think it is.

I am going by lists that either 1) I have personally played against in tournaments or 2) have performed well and been circulated online. I have no doubts that some people on the internet are putting a popular card in their sideboard, but that does not necessarily reflect the lists I will typically face in a large tournament.

Regardless, if Reanimator is bringing in Surgical vs. Sneaky Show, they are using valuable slots for a reactive card. It's a bad plan that would slow them down (and being faster is what gives them the edge in the first place)--so whether or not Reanimator runs Extraction is irrelevant, they are making a mistake if they bring it in against me

So game 2 (assuming you lost game 1) you can start with cage and the only out to that are the maindecked forces and the truths. But game 3 the chances of resolving and sticking a cage are slimmer because of the extra discard and extra counters plus the bounce.

If you say so. With four Cages I have--in the numerous Reanimator games I have played in both tournaments and at the kitchen table--only not been able to land a cage a handful of times. Obviously Reanimator can hit cards in my hand with discard--but I have brainstorm, too, y'know? (Edit: also I expect to lose G1 so G2 I am almost always on the play--i.e. they don't have time to hit my hand with Discard if my T1 play is Cage.) (Edit 2: I see your point about g3 but with 4x and cantrips it hasn't been an issue for me). There are a lot of factors and possible interactions, but from my testing 4x Cages means it's very easy to consistently resolve it.

Half of my creatures are also nonlegends thus karakas doesn't always spell game over.

OK. But some of your best creatures are Legends, and--perhaps you are the exception?--I have never encountered a Reanimator player who was anything less than shocked when I dropped Karakas. It's not something they assume will be coming. With Eli Kassis' deck tech today this may change, however.

[ivanpei]

Buy Overmaster buy them now. How did we miss this card? It's fantastic. It's like a cycling orims chant for sneakshow! It's better than misdirection because it cycles and does not need to pitch a card. It's good even if you just have sneak attack because they must counter it or die to show and tell. You can also bluff with it earlier and even if they don't counter it, it cycles! It's like a preemptive orims chant. It's freaking awesome. Even against aggro it cycles for 1 mana!

[Koby]

Buy Overmaster buy them now. How did we miss this card? It's fantastic. It's like a cycling orims chant for sneakshow! It's better than misdirection because it cycles and does not need to pitch a card. It's good even if you just have sneak attack because they must counter it or die to show and tell. You can also bluff with it earlier and even if they don't counter it, it cycles! It's like a preemptive orims chant. It's freaking awesome. Even against aggro it cycles for 1 mana!

Not sure if drunk, or just being sarcastic.

I'm not entirely sold on Overmaster - it helps you beat a matchup that was already heavily favored. Show me a cycling card that soul-crushed Reanimator, or helps beat Karakas; and you'll have my undivided attention.

In other news, Pyroclasm has proved to be good against random.decs. I really liked having access to it against Affinity, which would otherwise has zero cards to board in.

[ivanpei]

As a protection spell its tops. Misdirection isn't great against Reanimator as well. A protection suit of Force, Spell pierce and Overmaster should be the correct suit. I've always dislike misdirection because it's simply too much card disadvantage. Overmaster replaces misdirection very well because it's better as a protection spell and cycles against non blue decks like goblins or gw Mav.

It doesn't solve reanimator, definitely, but it's better than misd against counters.

[Koby]

As a protection spell its tops. Misdirection isn't great against Reanimator as well. A protection suit of Force, Spell pierce and Overmaster should be the correct suit. I've always dislike misdirection because it's simply too much card disadvantage. Overmaster replaces misdirection very well because it's better as a protection spell and cycles against non blue decks like goblins or gw Mav.

It doesn't solve reanimator, definitely, but it's better than misd against counters.

You're correct on card disadvantage. Good thing we're not trying to win by grinding people out...

Overmaster being Red and being played against RUG is the complete opposite of what you this deck wants do. Casting Overmaster means you need (obviously), which this deck has 7-8 sources, and half of them are burst. Seems dangerous to expose this much of our manabase to resolving Show & Tell. Furthermore, it puts the deck into more situations that made Gilded Drake better.

Misdirection also stops Surgical Extraction, can re-direct Animate Dead to other targets (low odds of that, but has happened before), is a free counter in a war. Finally, it's another blue card for FoW.

I like my chances better with MisD than Overmaster.

[ivanpei]

I think it's generally accepted that the first cards to go out are intuitions when boarding. And misdirection an animated dead is... Yeah pretty narrow. I don't see the issue here, you just fetch out the Overmaster when you are trying to go off against rug. You cast it on your combo turn, so you fetch your Volc then.

What about against gw Mav, Goblins, affinity and a whole lot of jank out there. Being able to cycle is a very strong ability. You can stick to the misdirections, but I've disliked the card for a while because in counter wars, each card matters. It isn't very good against control because it costs another card while being bad against aggro because it does nothing. That gives Overmaster a very strong case.

Edit: it was Eli Kassis who was playing it at the SCG Open. He's no slouch.

[NathanS2k]

Come on.....why can't we all agree Overmaster is good? I already purchased a playset of foil Overmasters for dirt cheap. Lets all agree that it's good card so I feel better about it.

[catmint]

I am thinking about rocking sneak&show again now that reanimator is declining. Also overmaster is very inspiring to me. Did not even know that card existed

Concerning red mana issues against RUG: That is indeed a new challenge, because we want a basic mountain, but I think it is doable. Especially if you run more Preordains. Overmaster does not necessarily need to replace exclusively Misdirection. I think Spell Pierces are also a good candidate.

Defense Grid seems also better than redblast against RUG or Esper. They tend to tap out early for threats, ponders, SD.top,... while we can play it off a Sol land. Once it's in play they cannot play threats if the want to counter at least once.

What I do not like about Eli Kassis's sideboard is not enough against reanimator. It is a very bad matchup and sugricals/cage/Through the Breach are very good.

Most importantly I was thinking about cutting 1 Emrakul and 1 Sneak Attack and upping the Preordain count to 3 or 4. Anyone ever tested that? Not sure if that is correct though...

Also did anyone consider going a slower route like omniscience playing 2-3 burning wish so you have more answers?

[ivanpei]

The omni version with wish is interesting. It's slower though and more dependant on show and tell. An untapped karakas may be a serious problem here. I think sticking to the fast route and having sneak attack as an anti karakas component seems better.

Omniscience feels like an unneeded extra component. To make it work, you need show and tell, omni and wish/fatty. It's a 3 card combo. I think simple and clean is best. Overmaster is really good, I think the card is for real. Even late game when pierce/daze are bad, Overmaster still shines.