He doesn't list SFM above, he lists SCM.Originally Posted by bilb_o
But I wonder why he calls it "espermiracle/blade" when it has no blades (or Jittes).
Updated: Heh, he fixed it by the time I read it, and I didn't see his note above.
I think it's missing Cursed Scroll. Gotta beat Merfolk somehow.
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Batterskull or Jitte usually beat Merfolk.
Whoooooosssshhh.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=39794
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Because I could easily add 3 SFM, Batterskul, and Jitte. I posted an edited esperblade list which is where the mix-up happened. I've been testing straight UW miracle and it's performed well but it takes too long to close the game out. I'm also concerned about Merfolks being a big presence at the next tourney, hence why I may want to add the Stoneforge package.
Hello,
I switched from my UW Blade to Esperblade recently. I'm having trouble with my sideboard plan against some decks. Here's my recent list:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
/Sideboard:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Perish
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Lingering Souls
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
So basically I want to board in so many cards in almost every matchup that i think I'm oversideboarding but I'm not sure.
1) Maverick?
+2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + Humility + Disenchant
- 2 Spell Pierce -2 Clique - 3 Force (I'm used to board out Countermagic mainly, but I think cutting almost all is wrong, maybe Discard spells?)
2) RUG?
On the play: +2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + 2 Flusterstorm +1 Spell Pierce (Maybe Humility?)
-3 Jace -4 Force -1 Clique
On the Draw: +2 Perish +3 Lingering Souls + 2 Flusterstorm
-3 Jace -2 Force -Counterspell - 1 Clique
3) Show and Tell
+2 Surgical Extraction + 2 Flusterstorm +1 Vendilion Clique +1 Spell Pierce +1 Humility +Disenchant
-4 Swords to Plowshares (leave some in ?) -2 Engineered Explosives -1 Academy Ruins - 1 Umezawa's Jitte
So what do you guys think of this? I think I'm doing something wrong because I'm boarding so many cards. Are there any other options to cut in certain matchups?
Advice and criticism is appreciated :)
- preddi
Maverick is a tough one for me... there's two routes I think you can go that are both valid. 1) Side out countermagic. 2) Side out SFM package.
The argument for siding out the SFM package would be that it is hard to rely on equipment against a deck that has 3-4 cards that destroy artifacts and 4 recyclable tutors to find them.
The argument against that would be that Maverick has few, if any, cards worth FoWing and 2-for-1ing yourself. Using discard to clear the way, it is possible to stick an equipment and finish the game before they can recover.
In my experience, most Maverick games tend to get very grindy. In that case, I'd rather have the extra protection, rather than SFM. Perhaps experiment with switching out the SFM package on the play vs on the draw. I still need to do quite a bit more testing before I am comfortable with this MU.
I would stick to taking out Jaces and Cliques. Both are REB fodder and you shouldn't need more than 4-5 slots against RUG. I'd much rather see you bring in PtE than Flusterstorm. The tempo from FoW can sometimes be relevant. (The exception could be if you see their list or strongly suspect they don't have REB/Pyroblast in their SB... in which case, Jace becomes very, very powerful.)
You might want to bring in Vindicate (perhaps a Disenchant) as a way to deal with Sulfuric Vortex. It probably depends whether you bring in additional sweepers or not. Perish/WoG will help free up your EE's to hit Vortex, otherwise your EE will be important to kill Mongoose.
You can easily side out Swords and EE here. You can maybe lose the Jitte (though it can be useful in racing). Bring in Surgicals, Cliques, and however much countermagic you have. Disenchant/Vindicate is ok, but if they resolve Sneak Attack, they likely have you. If you need additional slots, you can board out Jace since he's pretty slow and tapping out is dangerous. Use Surgical aggressively to see how close they are to comboing and you'll know when it is safe to push your clock.
What are people's thoughts on Pithing Needle (as part of the Trinket Mage SB package)? I'm not quite sure that it's worth the slot as I feel like I'd rather deal with the threat (Vindicate, Disenchant, removal, etc) rather than leave it sitting there waiting for something to bounce/destroy my Needle.
I don't see any sense in keeping in a singleton FOW - since it's the kind of card that you want to see in your opener (which is why people play 4) - it's a horrible midgame topdeck and only becomes okay again after turn 15, when it's not a big hassle to hardcast it. That being said, I'm not sure about the optimal alternative..
Not sure whether keeping in Thoughtseize is viable. I'd opt to keep in 2 FOW instead to be able to resolve (and use) SFM.
Disenchant is not an option against most S&T players by now, since they'll be able to wait until they can cast Sneak Attack and go off the same turn. I'd suggest keeping in Ruins instead.
Hello,
I want to thank you first for your responses. I'm a little overwhelmed by the possibilities of the esper board. My UW list was more straight forward.
@Dzra:
Boarding out the SFM package sounds interesting but for this i think you need a proper way to close the game. Jace never got there against maverick for me because each creature is enough to stop Jace from ultimating. I no longer play Elspeth in my esper list, so I think the countermagic has to go or another threat has to be in my board (like Elspeth or Geist).
@Klaus:
I think boarding out all forces is optimal, but i lost many games to elspeth, choke, Sylvan Library. So I feel we need at least some ways to stop this cards from resolving.
This looks difficult :/
Against Maverick, I generally take out all of the countermagic and bring in removal. Aside from Choke, there's generally nothing in their deck that can't be dealt with via your standard removal package. I am playing 2 engineered explosives in the main and the third in the SB, and this card goes a long way in making this matchup more managable since it can lead to one-sided board wipes and deals effectively with the troublesome Mother of Runes.
Engineered Explosives I feel is a card that Esper really needs to start playing more of going forward to help deal with Maverick, RUG, and Merfolk. It's not the best against Goblins, but it's functional there as well. If you reference the origins of the deck (Mental Misstep era), the deck ran either Standstill or Ancestral Visions as methods of card advantage. Now, we get that somewhat via Snapcaster recursion, but EE furthers this idea by providing the potential for 2-for-1's in addition to being a solid removal option.
Against Maverick, I'd probably not go for Jace's ult for a long while. Cement your lead with a lot of incremental advantage and BSing every turn. It's not as flashy as equipment, Jacing, or Elspeth, but I think it's more reliable. If you stabilize early with removal and discard then your counters should stop them getting back into the game while you beat down with Clique and Snaps.
Boarding out counter magic is definitely an option. Between EE, Disenchant, and Vindicate, you should have enough ways to deal with Library and Choke. You're much more vulnerable to topdecks though.
Sorry this took so long to respond, I moved and didn't have internet for a few days.
1) I have tossed around the idea of 3 Tops, but besides the fact that my list is very tight already, I have found 3 to be a little clunky. I don't always want to drop it turn 1, and drawing multiples is SUPER clunky.
2) I agree with you completely. I've been a huge proponent of 4 Pierces for a long time because I agree that the meta does not want something like Snare, but i've just been trying it out lately as a 1-of, and although it has done a lot of work, I do think just making it the 4th pierce is better.
3) As far as the manabase is concerned I never have any issue. Maybe 1 in 10 times. It works as good as it looks. Fetchlands get me the colors I need, the wastelands are only there to take care of trouble lands, not to screw my opponent. Mishra's Factory is bonkers, and I almost always have the colors I need. It may be because i'm on 24 lands that it works, but it does.
4) For a while I agreed with you, but the value of Clique against combo is too good to pass up. I was running Geist for a long time but what I gained against Maverick with Terminus, I lost from Combo, so the Cliques do a lot of work. The reason I play 3 SCM is because they become a bit worse with all my Miracles. 3 FoW is just something I change depending on my meta.
I appreciate your comments and what you're saying has validity. My list changes frequently because I believe you should always change a list because it is never perfect, so i'll definitely consider what you said. I'm also kind of stubborn so there's that.
Has anyone tested Dark Confidant? I've been playing him as a 4 of and he is a must answer, or you just drown the opposition in card advantage.
Between FoW, Batterskull, Clique, Lingering Souls, Vindicate and Thoughtseize he sounds like a liability. He's always a must answer, but have you tracked your average lifeloss from him? I would like to think it's quite high, but have never tried it, so I might be wrong.
Don't forget Jace.
The general consensus with Confidant seems to be that he's usually worth the risk (and with Brainstorm and Ponder, you can mitigate it). But yeah that is definitely a risk.
OTOH, what do you take out to fit him?
He might be good for the sideboard, for matches where you side out FoW and/or Jace...
It seems that Surgical Extraction is the "go-to" choice for graveyard hate for this deck. However, I'm surprised that there's no love for Nihil Spellbomb as another option. It's a more crippling piece of gravehate, and since it cantrips, it's not embarrassing to bring in against decks which utilize the graveyard but don't depend on it (such as Canadian Threshold). Not to mention it actually cripples graveyard dependent decks like Dredge, as well as having excellent synergy with Academy Ruins.
Edit: In Esper Stoneblade, obviously.
Hi everyone , my name is Sam.
I played a lot stoneblade with a lot of differents lists , in 3 differents format. I really like this deck cause it won me a Ptq and day2ed me GP Amsterdam, won me bilands,...
But since Tom Martell won a GP with lingering souls , I stoped to play this deck cause I hate his list and lingering souls (mainly because of the bad manabase) , and didnt find a way to win the mirror without the black for lingering souls.
But now decided to build a new stoneblade based on the interaction between trinket mage and riptide laboratory.
here my list :
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Trinket Mage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Riptide Laboratory
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ponder
1 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Tropical Island
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 4 Terminus
SB: 2 Counterbalance
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Gilded Drake
First of all , I play 24 lands and only 2 colors. This means that the manabase is solid and good against wastelands. Furthermore , this manabase allows us to play some very usefull colorless lands such as riptide laboratory and mishra's factory.
The 2nd thing is trinket mage. This card bring with ,his toolbox , a lot of answers (needle,EE,relic,tormod's) and also TOP and seat of the synod. It is a bit slow but allways usefull, provide CA and ''combo'' with riptide.
I play 2 Top because it wins control mirror and combo with terminus and counterbalance of the sideboard.It also bring some gas when you draw a lot of your 24 lands.And there are a lot of shuffle effect in the deck to make sure you find what you need.
2 batterskull because it is a very good card on his own in this deck that can easily hardcast it.Also it make sure you have something to search with your 2nd or 3rd stonefore expecialy when you sideout jitte.
EE is very good right now because it kills nimble mangooze , merfolks and sylvan library.
Now the sideboard :
4 terminus are very good against merfolk , goblin , elf , RUG delver , maverick.
4 because it is good agaist a lot of the field and you allways want to draw a lot of it, if no brainstorm you can still hardcast it. Also good with TOPs,Jaces,bs,ponder.
1 tormod's crypt , 1 needle, 1 relic. Easy to find with 3 trinket mage,2 top,4 bs,2 ponder
the 2nd relic is mostly here against RUG delver ,it makes mangoose 1/1 and tarmo smaller and 0/1 when you want, exiles loam and ancient grudge.
1 Karakas 1 Gilded Drake , mostly against Sneak n Show and also vs reanimator's the show n tell sideboard plan.
Karakas is also good against maverick because it can bounce thalia and the all importent gaddock teeg.
2 flusterstorm 1 vendilion clique 2 counterbalance.Very good against all kind of combo and control decks.
1 path to exile it mostly there to have a 5th remouval against RUG delver but I can easily see a Elspeth or even a 4th jace in this slot if you expect more control decks.
vs RUG delver :
+4 terminus +1 relic of progenitus +1 path to exile +2 counterbalance
-4 force of will -1 jitte -3 jace
vs Maverick
+4 terminus +1 Karakas
-1 vendilion clique -4 force of will
vs Sneak n Show
+1 Karakas+1 gilded drake +2 flusterstorm +1 vendilion clique+1 pithing needle+2 counterbalance
-2 EE -4 stp -1 jitte -1 batterskull
vs Reanimator
+1 Karakas+1 Gilded Drake +2 flusterstorm+1 vendilion clique+2 counterbalance
-2 EE -4 stp-1 jitte-1 batterskull
vs Control
+2 flusterstorm +1 vendilion clique+2 counterbalance
some number of stp,EE,relic
against stoneblade you maybe want to bring image in , as stonefore n°5 and n°6 or a remouval for clique and sometimes geist of sainth traft or even a 2nd trinket mage or to ramp by coying mishra's factory.
what do you think about this deck ? what would you change ? do you have critics or questions ?
Last edited by nabuchodonosor; 08-08-2012 at 06:53 AM.
This deck seems very cool. But I can see a few problems with it. This format is about representing the cheapest threat, fastest creatures, fastest combos, and representing some countermagic back up to get there. The reason Stoneblade (esper) can do so well is because they can play a reactive and more importantly, a proactive game with discards. You aren't running counter magic, so your only source of proactive game is searching up an Engineered Explosives for 2. This game plan can fail against some decks such as Maverick, although the number of Terminus in the sideboard can really help out.
The reason Esper is so strong is because it has access to cards such as Inquisition / Thoughtseize / Lingering Souls. All those cards gives the deck more time to improve card quality and gain advantage over time. Lingering Souls, once resolved, can stop RUG decks for more than a turn or two, same with Maverick. Then you're required to find an equipment / Explosives to take care of the threat on board.
The thing is, I only see a proactive game in this deck. (Trinket Mage / Stoneforge), but no reactive game. For a slow deck like Stoneblade, this is needed. I really wanted to make a deck like this work as well, Trinket Mage is one of my favorite cards. It has a tendency to even make your sideboard more consistent by having more copies. Searching for Pithing Needle in a mirror match / control deck is a key to winning.
Hey guys, I'm sure all of you have been seeing 2-3 Spell Pierces in the Esper Stoneblade list. I have been testing the deck repeatedly and have found that Pierces are probably the worst cards in the deck. It really does not negate anything that I want it to and its usually just a blank card that I want to get value out of immediately. I can see it is extremely good against the UW Miracles deck or combo decks, which haven't been too popular in the US.
I really dont like cards like thoughtseize and inquisition of kozilek because they dont interact with what's on board , sometimes put you behind in tempo, and most importent thing it is a really bad topdeck in the late game.
Of course we have brainstorm+shuffle effect to get rid of these useless discard spells.
But I dont think that it is worth spalishing black and make the manabase worst for these cards. Plus , I play Vendilion Clique who provide a similar discard effect but Is also a good body who can kill a jace or tard with a mangoose, and it can also recycle a card in our hand.
I am not saying thoughtseize is a bad card , I would definitly play it if it were white or blue. But I dont think it justifly adding black.
I dont think thoughtseize make your maverick match up better (partly cause of the mana and partly cause of the fact that it is a horrible late-game topdeck.)
Thoughtseize is only very good on the 1st few turns or when you can bounce(with jace or karakas) then discard a creature.
Thoughtseize is very good against combo decks but right a lot of poeple play wasteland.
I think the discard is very very good in the early game against control but control mirror are often very long and sometimes you draw thoughtseize in the late game when you need CA or active cards.
But maybe thoughtseize is good enough ? Do you really think it is nessesary ?
why is it impossible to play just UW stoneblade like before Tom Martell won that GP ?
I dont like Spell pierce because again , it is very bad in the late game. Also, holding a spellpierce can make you loose some very importent tempo against decks with wasteland,daze,thalia.
Plus spell pierce is not particulary good against RUG delver of Maverick.
I think thant trinket mage is a lot better than Lingering souls in most situations.
And it provides some answers like tormod's, needle or the all-importent TOP where souls only smash or chump bloc.
(for example: against tarmo,mangoose,thalia,delver(EE cost only 2 to kill thalia and 0 to kill delver)
Trinket mage also ''combo'' with riptide laboratory.
I think I must be wrong because everyone is playing Lingering Souls, could somone explain me ?
Since I play a lot of card that make CA(trinket,stoneforge,jace,EE,terminus,snapcaster) and a lot of cards to find them , and a lot of reactive cards too , I think that not beeing proactive is not a major problem.
For example , against delver my plan is to destroy all their creatures (with stp,relic,path,terminus,EE) then drown them with all the CA. In this match up you can't afford to play cards like thoughtseize cause it is a dead card in the lategame and drawing this at the wrong time can allows them to come back in the game.
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