Im actually a fan of glacial chasm in the monogreen version with explorations and crucible. It does have its applications against burn as well as infect, just not sure if you can actually support it in this version. I won't discard the idea though, I might be wrong on thisOriginally Posted by Pizzatog
rocklee: what would you cut from your tuesday list to squeeze back in candelabras?
what cards under performed for you that would be worth swapping?
-rob
-rob
When I made the cut for the 2 slots to make this version of the deck I added a 4th Devastation Tide and a 4th Exploration Map. If I were to consider the "weakest" cards or most appropriate for Candelabra atm, I would probably cut 1 force of will and 1 Thirst for knowledge. Reasoning being Candelabra functions at its best when you are running at mostly-colorless mana, which you want to maintain with 4 exploration maps. You also are going to be drawing fire with Candelabra so your forces are less needed, and you will be going faster so theoretically they are less needed.
After doing some more testing sans-Candelabras I can say that a zero-candelabra version can work, but it is simply the extreme side of a Wasteland-metagame density scale. The more wastes there are the worse Candelabra is and the bigger a liability it is. Currently RUG, Maverick, & Tribals are doing better than normal, Candelabra doesn't power you out faster than Combo goes off and Candelabra isn't needed to out-pace Control anymore. In earlier variants of the deck when the current card pool was not available (no Glimmerposts, Titans, and Miracles) you needed 4 Candelabra to simply go fast enough to stabilize. Now you can stabilize on turn 3 with extreme consistency and don't need a Candelabra-fueled All-is-dust.
I'm not saying that Candelabras don't belong in the deck's relevant card pool. If the abuse of cards like Maze of Ith, Manlands and future land-tapping-abilities becomes strong, such as Standstill becoming dominant, then Candelabra would see a huge surge and I would likely run 4 on the main. Also depending on how many Merfolk/High Tide lists start running Back to Basics and Mavericks start running Choke I could reintroduce candelabras if I feel that Devastation Tide does not answer these sufficiently.
TLDR: Fast combo doing well at the same time that a Wasteland-heavy remainder of the meta is doing well means that Candelabra is taking a sideline for the time being.
thanks for the reply, sounds pretty fair overall. i appreciate the quick feedback. are you far from that place in connecticut? i live out in jersey.
-rob
I actually had someone at this recent event demeaningly tell my opponent after I beat him that RUG had a favorable matchup against me and I balked and had to make a comment. In my two fisted testing both pre and post board, I was 8-2 against RUG in 10 matches. The matchup is ridiculously favorable and their only chance against you is trying to zerg you dead with 2+ delvers while drawing all their wastelands off of minimal cantrips. It can happen of course, and those are 1/10 of the games they steal, with heavy forces holding you back on your spell-oriented grip while a single threat beats down being the other 1/10. Without Show & tells, post-board the matchup can approach 4-6 for them, which for a meta-dominant deck I don't like the odds of, so I add S&T and more titans and they just crumple to it.
I sincerely felt bad for this teammate of my opponent who was digging into him HARD for losing, when it really was just a poor matchup for him. But supposedly this mindset of RUG-beats-Eldrazi is commonplace. One I am all-for people having of course.
Glacial chasm isn't about being supported. It is literally supposed to be an instant tutorable Fog. It won me a game hands-down yesterday, with me drawing nothing against RUG, and him having the triple-mongoose beatdown going to town with 3 wastes (the scenario I just explained above). I showed in a Kozilek, but was facing down lethal in two turns even with blocks. Swing annihilate, he sacs all lands and 1 dude to still swing back, so I play Glacial Chasm for the win. The hidden-information and game-altering-effect it has is enormous beyond words. Yes, it does change games against Infect, Blightsteel and Price of Progress, but the real use of it is for allowing you to not lose board power and let them swing or prevent them from doing such when they think they have lethal.
Lastly, if you are having problems with MUD, which that and Affinity I struggled against for a long time in previous builds despite knowing they were a low metagame presence, include 2x hurkyl's recall into your SB where I have the 2x Cursed Totems. There are currently 4 "wiggle room" spots in the sideboard, the Pithing Needle, The Tabernacle, and the 2x Cursed Totems. I guess I could write up a complete-sideboard-option primer to help folks make their sideboards. But for now, I choose those 4 because the other cards in the SB handle sufficiently the major meta powers and the remainder can handle my pet peeve decks/cards, which are Sneak Attack, Empty The Warrens and Combo Elves.
I live in Windsor, CT, which is 10 minutes north of Hartford, dead center in the state. the CT legacy scene is pretty scarce, but being positioned ~2 hours away from all the RI folks and 2 hours away from the NY folks can have its advantages.
How do you find the Merfolk MU? I have had problems in testing, without a resolved Tide the MU is nearly unwinable for me.
I haven't put as much testing into it as I would wish. I'll do some two-fisted testing tonight. In the past, Merfolk was 60/40 in their favor and required tight play to pull off. I can definitely see them being a rough-er matchup and might merit some sideboard consideration.
you could consider running llawan out the sb.
-rob
I feel like something more akin to Ensnaring bridge might work better since it isn't completely dead in other matchups, namely combo ones.
Something like elephant grass would probably be good versus the tribal matchup. It comes down fast and the deck can usually produce enough mana to feed its upkeep; it also stops griselbrand (sort of) and dredge. (This is all theory-crafting on my part).
If that doesn't work, i think a combination of moment's peace and propaganda would probably slow down tribal enough.
The card wouldn't be for tribal decks. that's what S&T, titans and Glacial Chasm are for.
If you had been following the logic instead of seeing "ensnaring bridge = tribal solution" you would see I suggested it as a combination of anti-combo hate and specifically merfolk hate. Currently doing playtesting to determine how exactly the current build has weaknesses against Merfolk though. Which is how I decide both SB and MD slots instead of just intuiting them out. Good deck design is grueling and boring, not pulling cards out of a Sorting Hat.
Initial Merfolk testing is in. results out of 10 matches 2 fisted testing were 50/50.
Preboard I'm 2-10 for the matchup, Post board with Show & Tell I am 11-5, which puts the matchup very slightly in Eldrazi's favor, but extremely close to even. Moreso than I am comfortable with.M1 (Win)
G1 down to 1 hp. Devastation Tide + GP stabilizes against Mutavault to 4. Titan + Temporal stabilize next turn.
G2 down to 16 hp. Show & Tell Titan
M2 (Win)
G1 T5 devastation tide returns 17 dmg. Loss to double reejery replay 5/5's
G2 T5 Show & Tell clinches game.
G3 T15 Win from Primeval titan hardcast.
M3 (Win)
G1 overrun. 15 card dig for Devastation Tide on turn 5 yields nothing.
G2 Show & Tell Titan clinches at 7 for infinite turns.
G3 Mull to 3. WIN through top and maps against a hand of counters and only 2 lords.
M4 (Loss)
G1 T3 devastation tide. Loss stall out on turn 6 to 10 dmg via mutavaults.
G2 T13 Double blind flip of Miracles wins the game. Lucksackery embodied.
G3 T6 Show & tell counterwar won by Merfolk loses game.
M5 (loss)
G1 Mull to 5. T5 kill loss to double lord, double waste, double force /w CC & SA beats. "the nuts"
G2 Standstill /w vial & 2x mutavault and force.
M6 (Loss)
G1 Lose to hardcast kozilek. had to choose titan or kozilek. Titan would have won.
G2 Triple force, double waste, 5 lords. Brutal.
M7 (Win)
G1 Loss to Vial 2x Lord /w cursecatcher and 2x waste.
G2 T8 Hardcast titan after 3 Forces and 2 standstills.
G3 T9 Eot Temporal into Hardcast Kozilek and hardcast Ulamog
M8 (Loss)
G1 Loss to CC, Master, Mutavault 3x beats.
G2 Win to Eot Temporal Mastery facing lethal to Primeval Titan to infinite turns
G3 Mull to 5. T5 Loss to 4 counters, 3 lords and 2 CC's.
M9 (Win)
G1 Win to multiple tides, no mutavault or Vial for Merfolk.
G2 T13 Ulamog and Glacial chasm hold off for TFK chaining.
G3 T6 infinite turns made possible by 3 turns of GLacial Chasm versus 6 lords in play.
M10 (Loss)
G1 Loss to 2nd waste with 6 lords and vial.
G2 Loss to quintuple counter 2x lord, Vial Mutavault, 2x Waste. More nuts.
Just came back from another weekly event. This time in Lincoln, RI. 1st place with Eldrazi again. This time testing a build without exploration map as follows. MD S&T allows for a strong tribal matchup, and the matchups where it is a liability against you have a chance against G1, and G2 you can sideboard against to be disgustingly in your favor.
// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IN] Island (1)
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AVR] Temporal Mastery
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [AVR] Devastation Tide
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [US] Show and Tell
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [M11] Primeval Titan
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
I've been testing many variants of the deck with the Miracle build: no Candelabras, no Show & Tell, no Exploration Maps. Sofar all variants have won me events in the last week. So all there is remaining is to determine what is most needed for your meta. No Candelabras for wasteland-heavy, No Show & Tell for Reanimator/Hive Mind and no Maps for a Maverick meta. I tested with no-Crop Rotations, and the only meta I feel it would be viable in would be a heavy-UR, where crop rotation will be a liability even after 2 bait spells.
Again, I emphasize. This deck is ridiculously powerful at the moment. Pick it up. Any variant you can manage. The meta is slow enough for nothing to clock you by turn 3, and if it can, you can sideboard 6 cards on top of Force and make them pay for it.
Hi,
Been following the thread for some time, and have a question about your SB.
Might be a noob question, but the Ensnaring Bridge in SB, doesn't that affect you too?
So you get rid of it before attacking with your own fatties?
/PollePotDK
Devastation Tide end of opponents turn or Ulamog get rid of it easily :)
What BlackSTarDeceiver said here. Additionally, you can Devastation Tide on your own turn, resetting your own candelabras and often recast all your guys the same turn with ease. I recently beat Mono Red in a similar board state where I had glacial chasm and couldn't attack, but couldn't let the chasm die because of a vexing shusher and mana for 2x lethal Price of Progress, despite being at 40+ life. I could hardcast devastation tide and recast ulamog multiple times to kill all his mountains while taking extra turns off emrakuls, shuffling back in the devastation tides to continue doing it over and over.
I often laugh when people bring in Ensnaring Bridge against me. Yes it does require an answer for me to end the game, which can be of relevance in niche situations, but for the vast majority it doesn't stop me from winning the game, which is a process up to ending the game. Bridge is one of the worst sideboard cards against Turbo Eldrazi since the strength of the deck is not Annihilator, it is its inevitability.
GottaI'm playing a GW Cloudpost version right now, so wanted to be clear about that one since I need something like that in my SB.
But the UG versions sound temptingreally like the Miracles in the list.
/PollePotDK
Okay is there like a standart list right now for the eldrazi Ramp deck?
I wanted to build it on my own.
When I look at Rock Lees list I feel like Devestation Tide seems not good enough for a Legacy Deck. Also Candelabra is very good in the Deck so why only play 2?
I like the fact that you are not playing expedition map as 4 crop rotation + 24 lands is enough already.
What about Explore? That card seems like a natural inclusion pretty much! And lastly Kozilek is also bad. I like the one of Ulamog but playing too many of those guys seems pretty loose.
Actually Devastation Tide is huge for stabilizing. I've won my fair number of games due to it.
Also Rock Lee has given a lengthy explanation why Candelabra is not needed (at all or in full numbers) depending on meta. It should be somewhere on the last 2 pages.
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