Did you add a Savannah/Tundra, or are you just using GSZ to drop these guys into play?Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Depending on the matchup, I side in Karakas or not, but I would include Horizon Canopy main before a dual.
Cheers Rock Lee!
Played this list, card for card
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Kozilek the Butcher
1 Ulamog the Infinite Gyre
2 Emrakul, the Aeon’s Torn
4 Crop Rotation
4 Primeval Titan
4 Brainstorm
4 Show and Tell
4 Devastation Tide
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Maze of Ith
1 Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
Sb
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Cursed Totem
2 Trinisphere
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Flusterstorm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I played the list from Jupiter Games top 8 and it is bonkers. I've been reading this thread for a while before dipping into playing the deck. I took it to 1st place last night in a 21 man, 5 rd cut to top 4. If you guys are interested in watching they record it and can replay it at http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/b/328651213
Rd 1: U/W Miracles
Featured: http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/b/328651213
at about 12 minutes in
1-0
Rd 2: Affinity
G1: He drops his hand quick, I survive off the Glacial Chasm and show and tell in an emrakul, sac the glacial chasm to attack and annihilate all his lands, then devastation tide at 10ish life (glimmerpost lifegain, was down to 4ish at one point). He drops his 2 memnites and i show and tell again next turn.
G2: Turn 1 crop rotation for Tabernacle, show and tell in a Titan and gain about 20 life.
2-0
Rd 3: RUG
G1: He gets me down to about 10 and has double lightning bolt in hand (we discussed it after) with 6 power on board. I have nothing going on with a show and tell in hand, but can't find a creature, on my last turn i shuffle twice and top to try to find something to no avail.
G2: I forget but the deck fought me again.
2-1
Rd 4: Baby Zoo
G1: he gets a quick Steppe lynx, I get a quick maze + 2candelabra, he gets a pridemage and kills one, then a tarmogoyf. I'm holding them both off with the maze+candle. He burns me down a little bit and then i start casting eldrazis.
G2: I show and tell in a primeval titan turn 3 and go to about 21 life, staying there as he had no favorable attacks. I cast an emrakul and win. He shows me afterward that he had a price for 14 + helix for 3.
3-1
Rd 5: Maverick
Recorded Video See: http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/b/328671509
at about 14 minutes.
4-1
Top 4: RUG
G1: He gets me the first game, I forget it was like midnight.
G2: I devastation tides a few times to slow him down, try to resolve a chalice and he counters it. I then show and tell in a titan, and start racing him on life gain, he proceeds to try to race back with all my glimmerposts in play, forgetting about vesuvas.
G3: He gets turn one mongoose. I get a turn one tabernacle, it doesn't get wasted. I then pithing needle wasteland turn 2. Tabernacle keeps him from presenting a threat and finding counters, he counters a chalice for one, then I stick a trinisphere. He attacks me to three life and has 3 untapped lands, 2 tapped, and 6 power on board after attacks, I pretty much assume I'm dead to a bolt, but he passes. I crack a fetch and go to 2, again assuming I'm dead to a fire/ice now. The fetchland puts me to 6 mana to play my prime time, again, assuming it's gonna get dazed, it doesn't, I win.
Finals: Deadguy Ale
Watch it: http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/b/328677467
at about 20 minutes
Summary:
The deck is great, and the sideboard was really good too, I think I could find a better card for the cursed totem slots(2) not sure what atm though.
Thanks again Rock Lee.
Congrats on your win! Always nice to hear people having success with the list! Interesting that you bring in Chalice and 3sphere in against RUG. I only SB 1-2 cards against them, mostly taking out Candelabra for Bog & Tabernacle/Karakas. But the fact that the deck won with that plan just shows how resilient it is!
::EDIT:: After watching your two matches, the commentary is hilarious with the announcers trying to figure out what is a threat and appraising your board situation based off normal board-presence guidelines. Love it!
::EDIT2:: I love being able to watch people play the deck, because it lets me see how people think when playing it. Some avenues of play I would have gone through, at 45 minutes into the finals stream, you tap top in response to Tidehollow sculler with Show & Tell in hand and primeval titan ontop of library with a fetch and glacial chasm. If you had not tapped to draw, played the fetch, taken the beats for 7, then found a mana source you could have hardcast the titan into chasm and lifegain, or found a devastation tide. tapping the top restricts your looks though by not being able to draw the fetch. Thoughts! =D
When they vindicated the indestructable Ulamog I said "noooooo!" outloud. thankfully the commenters caught it. hah.
I found that that RUG matchup was not as favorable as I wanted it to be and thus the GSZ improves the RUG pairing significantly, putting the Titan count to 6-7 and enabling you to play cards like Scaveging Ooze (the best nimble mongoose answer in the universe) and Rhox War Monk, since their only viable plan is to strip you out (so you side in lands going upto 28 lands) or race you, so you go lifegain-centric.
Again grats on your win!
New List, for those interested:
// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog
2 [ZEN] Forest (3)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [M10] Pithing Needle
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 [DS] Trinisphere
If I add any more white creatures to the SB I'm going to have to start referring to the deck as Mavridrazi.
Last edited by Rock Lee; 08-15-2012 at 03:55 PM.
Ya it was 1:30 a.m. when i let the Ulamog die, he scooped anyways cause we split and I had it.
::EDIT2:: I love being able to watch people play the deck, because it lets me see how people think when playing it. Some avenues of play I would have gone through, at 45 minutes into the finals stream, you tap top in response to Tidehollow sculler with Show & Tell in hand and primeval titan ontop of library with a fetch and glacial chasm. If you had not tapped to draw, played the fetch, taken the beats for 7, then found a mana source you could have hardcast the titan into chasm and lifegain, or found a devastation tide. tapping the top restricts your looks though by not being able to draw the fetch. Thoughts! =D
He had extirpated both my tropicals and cloudposts, I had no active cloudposts in play, with just vesuvas and glimmerposts left in my library. If I glacial chasm i would have gone down to 3 mana sources and have to find 3 more before chasm eats me up, I'm pretty sure it was just a lost game most ways to cut it, but I guess i could have made him earn it fully. I hoped to psyche him out and make him take a Primeval, but he saw it.
Yeh saw the extirpates, it reallywould have had to be Vesuva or candelabra to get your double green to hardcast, devastation tide was the out to buy you more turns. I try to play chasm when I'm at 5+ life to give me 3 turns and I think you were at 7, so the chasm that turn would have probably been the play, but it would've depended on your 3rd card when you drew. Obviously not a strong position to win it, but when cloudposts are extirpated I barely flinch, since Titans and Show & Tell are the deck's primary plan anyway.
So that would have been my line of play.
Entirely not trying to seem critical, just giving my impressions. Love that someone else is picking it up and doing well with it!
Spread the infection! yess! Already folks are raging at the local venues I play at (Worcester, Windsor, DHG) about this deck being absurdly annoying to play against.
I see the logic now, makes sense, thank you.
Interesting to incorporate GSZ. I'd think that 1 Expedition Map is a little light though. Also, the basics.. how important are they? Most opponents will point their Wastelands at your Cloudposts and special lands anyway.
Crucible is notably absent and I think that significantly affects the RUG matchup. I don't think I'd play this deck without it. Wastelock is one of the best game plans against decks like RUG and it protects your mana base from their own mana denial plans.
Granted, I still play the mono-green list but after watching that video, cards like Tide, BS, and Show and Tell turn the deck into a hyper aggressive monster instead of a slower deck that tends to use more land search. The green list has A LOT of land search and as such I find it easy to adapt to what the opponent is doing with niche lands. This deck seems to forgo that plan. Brainstorm helps you to find lands but lists are slowly playing fewer of the lands I've like to find all the time, ie. Wasteland, Maze of Ith, and Bojuka Bog. The land tool box ought to stay around. I think its one of the main strengths of the deck. Otherwise, it seems like the latest builds merging towards Show and Tell variants instead of.. a deck that can utilize both the advantages of SnT.dec and Lands.dec. I definitely agree with the additions of Brainstorm and Show and Tell but cutting the land tool box down to a smaller size means those land-tutor-cards lose quite a bit of their value.
Also, Crucible + Wasteland is fantastic in certain matchups. I'd at least try to play them post-board. That seems much better than trying to board in one creature against RUG. GSZ is Spell Pierceable so I doubt they'll let it resolve if they know whats coming, whether it be a Titan or a Warmonk.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
Just ran into the mirror on MTGO and it presents a few interesting lines of play. Definitely felt the blue splash had the edge over mono green here.
Game 1 was deadlocked for the longest time because Top, Candelabra, and Eye of Ugin were all needled down and no one was drawing Eldrazi. Ended up trading Titans for 5 turns thinning our decks down to 30 cards or so, gaining 10-20 life off Glimmerposts. Opp ended up landing an Emrakul first, allowing me to sac all my tops and needles (freeing up Ugin and Candelabra) to the trigger. Then Titan'ed in my own Ugin and Candelabra time-walked him to death.
Ugin seemed like the key card here, seems wrong to fetch it in the mirror unless you can activate it that same turn. Don't think I would've had an out if opp hadn't fetched it earlier for me to Vesuva away.
Game 2 opp just ramped faster than I did, didn't see anything good off my Tops.
Game 3 blind Show and Tell into Emrakul with needle on Karakas ftw.
Anyone else have thoughts on how to play the mirror? Playing Locuses felt tricky too since I assume you always want to be the first to hit 6 mana.
The mirror is simply ridiculous. Opening hands that were entirely unkeepable "all vesuvas and candelabras + eldrazis" are auto-win hands. Glimmerpost is a huge liability. Titans do not end the game, and can dangerously accelerate them.
The mirror is simply nuts and often comes down to subtle yet insane changes in the deck such as GSZ targets like Tajuru Preserver and Terastadon. Fetching out Ugin early is not horrible since they must deal with it to go infinite. I feel like if you were debating the various builds, the strength in the mirror would go to these builds in this order: Temporal Mastery > GSZ > Mono Green > Devastation Tide.
What? In the mirror... Crucible/Wasteland > ALL those other cards. These blue lists don't play anyway to recur lands. If mono-green gets a Crucible into play then you're fucked because finding Wasteland with so many land tutors is nothing. Throw in Exploration, and the Gu player is going to shit themselves.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
This is just from my two-fisted testing, which I do a minimum of ten slow matches without knowledge of the other hands. Which I might point out, is extremely tedious the more archetypes I come up with, since I multiply the number of tests I need to do.
4 needles main and Bojuka bog main are backbreaking for Mono Green, which the current UG build runs. They "hurt" UW, but since Mono Green is cemented in establishing land dominance via Crucible, Blue has enough ways to finesse around it. 3 basics main, and Ooze in the side all mean Crucible-Lock is simply extremely difficult to establish.
In other news though, I FINALLY figured out what card fits in the cursed totem spot. I was in an event Tuesday where I couldn't tap my Dryad Arbor for mana because I had cursed totem in play, and gave my opponent 2 extra turns they shouldn't have had if I had the correct sideboard choice. I despise dysynergy so I needed something that would still stop elves and could possibly splash in against combo. I conducted searches for over 1,000s of cards, literally looking for a green creature that would do this, but ultimately I should have dumbed down the logic process. Envelop is everything I need. Hits what the slot was dedicated against, Glimpse & GSZ, but also hits Overmaster/Show&Tell, InfernalTutor/Burning Wish as well as working against Maverick for their GSZ/Armageddon.
Finally!
I seriously feel exhausted from my frustrated search for a specific niche card. The manabase might have to adjust to accommodate the greater blue need, such as going back to 4x Trop, 4x Misty and 2 instead of 3 basics. But that is a debate for another day after some celebratory rejoicing.
But Crucible comes out for those matchups anyway or if they are in the board, then they don't come in. Pridemage, Ooze, and GSZ make your day pretty shitty if Crucible is a game plan. This deck doesn't have trouble with Maverick anyway.
Also, its easier to establish the lock when you have access to Brainstorm as +4 Library manipulation to compliment Top.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
I was only talking about the mirror, where gsz can be crop rotation 5-6-7 with a diverse enough green creature kit.
Oddly enough I was considering envelop pretty strongly myself at the same time in the cursed totem slots, if I can get some for saturday I'll run 2-3.
Because I can never be satisfied with a single build, testing a build with GSZ and Tide.
After several hours of tests, it was just too clunky. you would find yourself being raced by things like SFM's when normally you laugh in the face of them.
GSZ is showing stronger than Tide atm. Testing with heavier amounts of candelabras.
Any suggestions on how to play against Pox? Doesn't seem like a good matchup, but I probably kept loose hands as well. Seems like an early Show and Tell into Titan is the only way out with Crop Rotations buying a turn or two.
They can steal games, but imo the best way to beat any LD based deck is to halt their clock, and you win off of running 29 lands to their 12-16 LD spells.
Needle on Liliana, Envelop on their LD, Try to streamline your deck as much as possible. Side out an eldrazi or two since they're just bricks in your hand. Keep hands that don't rely on SDT or Brainstorm like you normally would. Keep hands like you're playing against RUG, so 5+ lands = auto keep.
It is interesting that you mention Pox, since in the local weekly event (23 people) I faced a Pox deck in the swiss, Pox in the top 4, and Pox in the finals. amusing!
The deck won on all instances. Generally Pox relies on their hymns hitting very hard (1 of my 2 game losses to them among the 8 total games) or Liliana/wastes carrying them to victory. Needle answers the Liliana/Wastes, and redundant mana and keeping stable hands beats Hymn.
This is the build I won with today. Can't scoff at 100$ for playing silly Cloudposts!
// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [ZEN] Forest (3)
1 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [M10] Pithing Needle
2 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 1 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
I couldn't get a hold of Scavenging Ooze or Envelops before this event, hence the Cursed Totem, Extraction and extra Trinisphere.
I played against R1: Dead Guy Ale/Junk homebrew, R2: Ant Tendrils, R3: Mono White Stacks, R4: Pox, R5: Drew with Pox again to get into Top 4. Pox in Top 4, Pox in Finals. Pox everywhere! It was dominating galore.
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