This is correct. You declare targets, THEN pay costs.Originally Posted by Star|Scream
That's why a Wasteland can target itself with it's ability.
I'm still a scrub with this archetype, but it just seems too mana intensive. 4G to GSZ and G to Hurricane for 1 (which also means you can't keep using him each turn unless you only burn for 2 each time).
Having said that, the only other tutor-kill option for dealing with Planewalkers would be to use Summoner Pact with Mold Shambler, and running pact for just this would be ridiculous.
TL:DR: Probably the best option, but still only a decent option it seems.
Ifh-Biff is a 3-turn clock that gets rid of entreat, clique and planeswalkers. It's a good card.
But does it work in practice? I haven't played against miracle control yet but do they not set Entreat up at the end of your turn? That means you can only GSZ for Ifh-Biff in your next turn and activate it the turn thereafter (unless you're ridiculously far in late game). It seems to me you're already dead by then.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
I personally used scapewish as my deck of choice in legacy tournaments in my local area!
besides horror matchups against combo decks like belcher and SI, it has been a blast to play!
Huntmaster of the Fells is really a devastating card by itself in a lot of my match ups
I just need more tips on how to fight uw miracle control, like what to name when I therapy them etc
Played in my first ever Legacy tournament yesterday at Jupiter games with BG Nic Fit. I got very lucky in that I played against fair decks all day. I'm pretty new to both the deck and the format but I managed to hold my own, went 4-2-1 on the day and took 20th out of 90ish people.
I played the following list:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Treetop Village
22 Lands
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
13 Creatures
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
22 Spells
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Planeswalkers
Sideboard
3 Extirpate
2 Memoricide
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Damnation
1 Darkblast
ROUNDS: I didn't take great notes especially about sideboarding (which I'll do next time so I can work on that) but here's what I played.
Round 1: 0-2 loss to BUG Shardless Agent with Hymn, Ancestral Visions, Tarmogoyf and Jace
SB: Definitely brought in Duress and Thoughtseize but I don't remember what I removed.
(0-1)
Round 2: 2-0 win against RUG Delver
SB: Carpet of Flowers is insane.
(1-1)
Round 3: 2-1 win against Goblins. Lost to multiple Piledrivers and a Sharpshooter.
SB: I brought in Darkblast for Wickerbough Elder and I think I brought Damnation in at some point.
(2-1)
Round 4: 1-1 draw against UW Miracles with Stoneforge Mystic. Lost game 1 to a huge entreat after dropping to 1, gaining life back up to 13 with Thragtusk and Ooze, and getting my board STP'd. Won game 2 but it took a long time. Game 3 would have been a win for me if I had had a couple more turns, my own fault because i was playing a bit slowly in G1 and G2. I had a Garruk at 9 loyalty and he had 2 life when turns ended.
SB: Duress, Thoughtseize and Carpet of Flowers came in. Finks, Innocent Blood and Veteran Explorer came out in some combinations (didn't want to make his miracles better or ramp him into Jace. Possibly wrong?)
(2-1-1)
Round 5: 2-1 win against UW Stoneblade with Delver. Lost game 1 after gaining a ton of life with Finks, Thragtusk and his Swords to Plowshares. Game 2 I got a good disruptive draw and got there with Treetop Villages, game 3 I got Primeval Titan going with Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Tower.
SB: Same as Round 4
(3-1-1)
Round 6: 1-2 loss to Maverick. Game 1 was odd, I built up a huge board presence with Garruk pretty quickly and was able to just attack through his large Terravore and Knight to kill him in 2 hits. Game 2 was a huge grind that I ended up punting because of time pressure- he told me later that I could have gotten him for lethal by cracking Deed to make him tap his Thrun and then attacking with Treetop Village, a play I just didn't see. I later Zenithed for Thragtusk when he was beating me down with Thrun, when I should have just gotten my own Thrun and tried to win with my Villages. Really crazy game. I lost in G3 to a turn 3 Elspeth.
SB: +Nihil Spellbomb, +Damnation, -Wickerbough Elder, -1 something else
(3-2-1)
Round 7: 2-0 win against Enchantress. Drawing at least one Pernicious Deed in each game is really good against that deck.
SB: +2 Memoricide, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Duress i believe. Finks and 3 Explorers came out, and probably 2 Innocent Blood.
(4-2-1)
////
I definitely want to play a Dryad Arbor in my list as another way of ramping myself with Green Sun's Zenith. I think a Hornet Queen might also be a good choice, at least in the Sideboard, for Maverick and as a pseudo-solution to Emrakul. It's probably better than Darkblast against Goblins, assuming I can get to 7 mana before I die. Not sure.
Anyway, I've lurked here for a bit watching the discussion so I thought I'd introduce myself. This deck got me hooked on the best format ever, so I expect I'll be active on this thread a good deal. Thanks for reading
Re: Ifh Buff Efreet
I get what you guys are trying to do there, but really it just seems cute. If you can keep a Deed on the table they can't even Entreat and you're applying pressure all the while. As for a sideboard card, extraction effects are just as good as the Efreet and more applicable in other matchups. If you Extract their Jaces and Entreats, their deck becomes a steaming pile of shit.
@MrIggins
Grats on the solid finish! Very good first time performance with a deck like this! Glad my list ran well for you and hope to be hearing more out of you soon!
I'll give a full report and reply to people tomorrow when I'm breaking at work. Here's the minute report, though:
I played against FIVE MOTHERFUCKING EMRAKUL decks rounds 1-5. I would have killed for Iggins' matchups =(
R1 teamkilled a friend that's trying to make Gamekeeper work.
R2 died to Hypergenesis. He turn 1'd me game 2. If I hadn't been on the play I wouldn't have even had a land in play =(
R3 narrowly died to Sneak and Show
R4 beat Sneak and Show
R5 beat Sneak and Show
R6 beat Miracles
R7 beat Maverick
...ending 5-2, good for 13th place and a Plateau.
The sad thing is that the overall meta distribution of the room wasn't that high with Emrakul decks. I mean, there were a number...but there was also a pile of goblins, RUG, Blade, Maverick, and other various fair decks. I just kept getting paired up against them every round. Seriously. I don't want to see an Emrakul for the next three months. Humility is a god among men. More tomorrow =)
Looking forward to your report.
I played in a ~22man tournament today, went 2-3.
Lost to
MUD combo becuase I played like CRAP, literally, CRAP. I really don't want to talk about that game
UW miracles because it's a real hard setup
Combo elves because I've never played against that deck before and wasnt sure when to blow up the deed. I did it too early to think. Can anyone give me an advice here? When do I blow up the deed against elves?
I played GBw w/ suntitans, sigarda etc, pretty standard list.
Really want to try out that Rector version. Again, looking forward to your report and your decklist
Good job glad you ended up making prize. Sorry about the turn 1 ;) . That game one was kinda silly how often do you get to deed a grisledaddy. Thank for the heads up I have ken working on getting me Korean explorers he gave me a lead on the first one :) . I'll MSG you later so we can compare notes on the gifts version that I have if your ok with that
@sam good job on the finish I'm glad I got you hooked
Last edited by caggii; 09-09-2012 at 05:30 PM.
Against elves droppin a deed basically forces them to try an grind you out. Because they can't combo because you kil blow up to world. I guess unles they drop ezuri
But keep in mind that in G2/G3 against Elves, they have Krosan Grip and you should blow the Deed right away when you play it without passing priority
Ah! Sorry for misinformation I was under the impression you could recur a single creature repeatedly with RN. My bad.
Hmm....any thoughts to a singleton Nevermore (for rector version) in the board? Seems decent vs. miracles and other matchups.
I like the idea but the 3cc makes it vulnerable to deed. Still, may try it in place of an extraction effect.
@ Arianrhod
Can you put a deck list up when you update tomorrow? I'm really curious what you ended up taking to Vestal.
Okay, I derped this morning and forgot to bring my notes with me, so this report might be slightly sketchy as far as details are concerned. Some matchups I remember better than others (damn you Bobby), but I'll do what I can =)
The list:
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Starved Rusalka
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
3x Academy Rector
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Sun Titan
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Moat
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Vindicate
1x Diabolic Intent
3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower
//SB
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Nether Void
1x Humility
1x Raking Canopy
3x Extirpate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Harmonic Sliver
A few words about the list. The Rusalka was decent, although my matchups weren't really those where it would have shined. Having a sac outlet available via GSZ felt really good to have. I'm still hopeful that we'll get something better somewhere in Ravnica, but if we don't, I'm okay with keeping the Rusalka around. The fact that it's a 1-drop and costs 1 to activate is relevant. Even if we get a 3- or 4-drop with a better activated ability, I'm not sure it's actually better than Rusalka due to the cmc.
Upon more testing, 2 Sakura-Tribes is definitely the right number. I'm not flooded with them, but I'm seeing them often enough to be content. They definitely increase the number of keepable hands, and their synergy with Nightmare is not to be underestimated. They're also more warm bodies for Therapy flashback, if you're playing vs combo.
Diabolic Intent was amazing all day. Being able to resolve Demonic Tutor in a deck like this is absurd, especially when it essentially is free (saccing an Explorer for it). Intet straight up won me at least one game by itself. More on that later.
I didn't miss the Maelstrom Pulse that I cut for the Rusalka. However, I also didn't play against matchups where the Pulse would have been good. The 2nd Elspeth is actually on the chopping block currently. While being able to jump things over Moat is amazing, I think that Sigarda might actually have obsolesced Elspeth. I can Vindicate or Deed away my Moat if I have to, but usually, Sigarda/Baneslayers/Yosei will get there in a Moat matchup. Sun Titan is still of relevance even if it can't attack, because I can loop it through Nightmare. If Elspeth gets cut, it'll be for the 4th Green Sun. Now that I have the Tribe Elders and the Rusalka, I want the 4th GSZ more. We'll see what happens.
Now, then, the report:
Our car got stuck behind some gas trucks going up 220, so we got there a little later than usual (like 10:40). Our driver usually plays ANT or Landstill, and didn't particularly want to play either of them because he had a long day on Sunday and didn't want to burn up all of his energy for the weekend with one of those decks. I offered him Scapewish, and he accepted. That brought the number of Nic Fit players on site to 5 (!), out of a 90-person event [2 were Scapewish, 2 were G/B, and then me]. I kept looking for TheArchitect, but JC told me that he wasn't able to make it =(
At some point Caffrey, who was judging the event, wandered up to me and asked what I've done to the meta. I was amused.
R1: Ed with Gamekeeper
Ed's a local of mine, and he has a penchant for trying to update old decks and make them viable again. He seriously has ProsBloom built, laying around his room somewhere. It's irritating. He's actually got his Gamekeeper deck to the point where it can be scary, though, and it's an Emrakul deck, which is always a shaky matchup.
Game one he mulls to five, and I'm feeling fairly decent about my keep. He proceeds to nut draw all over my face, with like a t3 hasty Emrakul after 3 discard spells. Sigh.
Game two I win by putting a Cranial Extraction on the stack naming Emrakul.
Game three is a nail-biter. We both rip each others' hands to absolute shreds, and then just sit there for a while. I eventually win on the back of Thragtusk beats, but I hadn't been feeling good about the game. Emrakul decks are scary.
R2: Bobby with motherfucking Hypergenesis.
So, I sit down and I recognize Bobby because every time I'm up there, he's playing some random Timmy/Johnny deck. The first I played vs him (months and months ago), he was on Reanimator. Last month he was on Hulk combo. Etc. So I had a feeling I wasn't going to like whatever he was about to do to my rear end.
He leads off with some fetches, and I go Forest -> Explorer. He Shows on t2. I look at my hand, and figure that I could either put out a land, to try to accel into something good, or I could put out Moat, in case it's some big ground-pounder. So I put out Moat. He puts out Angel of Despair, and nukes my Forest. I drop Phyrexian Tower, sac my dude, and do something largely irrelevant that he Forces. After a few turns of getting punched in the face by an Angel, I drop my own Angel (Baneslayer), and comment that mine's better than his, as both are 5/5s, but mine First Strikes. He shrugs, and Shows me a Griselbrand. I put out a Deed. I punch in for 5 to get my life back to something respectable, and then pass turn. He tries to swing with Grizzles, and I crack Deed for 8, because I'm Nic Fit and I can do that [bitch.]. We both sit there and stare at each other for a few turns. I Therapy him, naming Maelstrom Wanderer, as he's one mana short from hardcasting it. I whiff, seeing double Violent Outburst, double Spirit Guide. He rips Maelstrom Wanderer like a goddamn champion, double Violents into HG -> Wanderer + both spirit guides, and punches me for exact. Awkwardddddddddddddddd.
G2 I contemplate my hand. It had an Extirpate and a Cranial, I remember, as well as mana and acceleration. I keep like a chump, playing my land and passing turn. He doubl-Spirit Guides + land drop into Outburst -> HG -> Emrakul -> Grizzle -> Memorial -> kill. Frown.
In retrospect I never should have kept that hand. I should have mulled until I had something stupid like Baneslayer + Sigarda (or Humility) in my opening hand. But considering the strength of Bobby's hand, and that I was already down a game, I somehow doubt that it would have mattered.
In between rounds I lament my double Emrakul deck pairing, looking at the piles of fair decks that were everywhere. Naturally, my round 3 pairing:
R3: Alan Shupe with Sneak and Show. Again.
Alan and I had just played on camera the last Jupiter Games, and I knew he was still on Sneak and Show. He hadn't seen my Rector build yet, but had just annihilated my friend that was running Scapewish the previous round.
G1 I don't even remember, but I know I lost, and I don't think it was close. I think he Showed a Sneak Attack, and I put out Sigarda. He rocket punched me for 15, I took it, then swung with Sigarda in hopes that he wouldn't draw another creature. He draws Griselbrand and I die.
G2...I don't remember the circumstances, but I know Humility happened, and I know that my 1/1s are better than his 1/1s.
G3 he keeps a really permission heavy hand that doesn't have a lot of business. He Forces something pitching Force, then Forces something else pitching I think an Intuition. After a while he Shows a Griselbrand, while I put out a fetchland so I could get rid of the junk on top and get a fresh spin of my Top. I see Humility with Top, and draw that for turn. He has like one or two cards in hand, and I have a metric fuckton of mana out so I'm not worried about Spell Pierce. I just go for it, because if I tried to wait to have discard backup, he'd have gained life and could draw more than 7 cards (he was at like 13). Naturally he finds his 4th and final Force of Will in those 7 cards. Must be nice =(
So now I'm 1-2, after 3 Emrakul decks. I wander around and talk to people a bit. My friend Steve has beaten 3 combo decks in a row with Maverick, so he's running hot. My driver is losing to yet another Sneak Attack deck. It's pouring rain out, and there's some pretty vicious thunder. I think everyone thought the power was going to go out at one point.
R4 pairings go up, and I'm paired against the same Sneak player that Ryan lost to last round. Again.
R4: Sam (I think) with Sneak.
We banter a bit, and play some cards. I can't remember what happens g1 or g2. I know that I won game two, because it went to game three, and Sam was on the play. And game three is memorable because karma had pity on me. He quick-keeps, as do I. He leads City of Traitors -> Petal -> Show -> Emrakul. I Show Humility, because karma fucking said so. We proceed to play a 10ish minute game of "my 1/1s are better than yours," though he puts up a valiant effort with Submerges and counterspells.
4 Emrakuls decks......
R5: Zach with. wait for it. SNEAK ATTACK.
Jesus Christ.
This guy's luck had run out, however, and some higher power was taking pity on me. I got rocket-punched by a Shown Emrakul, but my Show had been Rector, which went and Fetters'd his spaghetti monster, putting me back to 9. An Explorer had also died to annihilation, which rebuilt a few lands, and my hand had been land-heavy in the first place, so I actually wasn't in a bad spot. Zach proceeds to flood out while I recover and eventually kill him. Winning through Emrakul attacks! yeah!
Game two we both durdle for a while. Eventually he Shows on some midgame turn or other, and I put out Humility, which I'd Intent'd for the previous turn. He spends a few minutes lamenting how horrible that is for him while I make 1/1s and Extirpate cards that make him creatures, as I know he doesn't have any bounce in his deck. I shut off his Griselbrands and Show and Tells, while he eventually makes a Sneak Attack and Sneaks an Emrakul to get rid of the one that was in play that I Fetters'd, because I'm an asshole like that. He eventually dies to 1/1s.
3-2, after 5 Emrakuls. At this point I'm just going with the flow, and kind of hoping I get paired up vs two more, so I can just make a full day of it. JC's 5-0 with Goblins, Hollywood's been playing RUG decks all day, the G/B Nic Fit player I don't know (Iggins above) has been getting fair decks all day, and Louis (the other Scapewish player) has also been getting fair matchups whenever I see him playing. I'm tilted to the point to actually WANTING to be tilted MORE. How's that for messed up?
R6: [name I don't remember] with U/W/r Miracles.
I'm sitting next to Iggins, who's playing Bryant Cook (his Maverick player. yes, Bryant was playing forests). I gently tease Bryant about playing forests, and then feel like shit shortly thereafter when he mentions to his opponent that "Oh, I'm playing forests by the way." I figured that everyone knew by that point that Bryant was on Maverick. I meant to apologize to him later, but I forgot after going to time this round =( If you happen to wander through here, Bryant, I'm sorry!
Anyway, I lead land-Top-go, while my opponent leads Tundra-Top-go and I've never been happier in my life. We proceed to have a ridiculous game one. I get a fast Arena out. He Jaces, I fetters his Jace. I Yosei him for a turn and try to set up a lock since I Intent'd for Nightmare. Unfortunately he has a Force. But it's okay, because I had Sun Titan on top of my deck. I know he has a Clique in hand from a Therapy, so I Top Titan to the 3rd position on upkeep, so that when he Cliques me I'll draw it. I attempt Sun Titan, he flips Terminus off CB. Rage. Eventually I GSZ out a Witness getting back Titan. He's used 3 Terminuses, so it should resolve. I run it out there. It resolves, triggers back Nightmare, saccing Witness for Yosei, saccing Yosei to Phy Tower, targetting his mana base. He Tops in response and then Entreats for like 6 angels. Second main I look with Top, draw off Top, play Deed, and crack for 0 while he tilts. He was furious that "of course there was a Deed there," and I opt to sit there quietly and not antagonize my opponent by pointing out that of course there was a Deed there, as I hadn't seen one yet all game, with Top and Arena literally the whole game. They had to be somewhere!
We have like 13 minutes on the clock for game two, so we both board quickly and shuffle up. I make a mistake by not bringing in Harmonic Sliver, since I assumed he'd board out his Counterbalances (wrong). I also didn't know he was going to be boarding in 3 O-Rings.
He goes for a really quick Jace, which I shut down with Fetters. He O-Rings my Fetters, and then +2's Jace all game. He also has just enough control that he manages to protect it. With time ticking down he gets obviously frustrated as I'm thinking through my plays. Now, game one he was slow-playing like a champ, but I was confident in winning g1, so I didn't care. Now in game two, he tries to hurry me along multiple times, to the point of asking Caffrey to watch the game. I know what slow play is, and I know that I was playing at a perfectly reasonable pace. I was not going to let him hurry me just because he should have scooped g1 after 15 minutes instead of letting it go for 40. Time is called, Jace ults me, and I have 6 cards in my deck. GG sir. Neither of us can win in time, so it goes 1-0-1 in my favor, putting me to 4-2.
One round left. The pairings reward me:
R7: Jesse Adams with Maverick.
Jesse and I have played previously, and had some pretty epic games. This was also before I fixed Rector's Maverick matchup.
Game one I flood out like crazy while he makes a board presence. I finally hit a Rector the turn before I would die, sac it for a Deed and wrath his everything. Then Sun Titan happens, and then game two happens.
Game two he leads with a Mother, and I Therapy him. I'm thinking that I want to name Knight, but I name GSZ instead because I'm more scared of Ooze. Naturally he has 2 KotRs in his hand. Derp. He makes a board, I drop Moat, we stare at each other for a few turns, then he GSZs. I Mindcensor in response, but he has the Swords, so he goes and gets his Qasali, blowing up the Moat. He then double Mom pro-white (I had a rector out)s his pair of KotRs, and punches me for 16. Rusalka happens on Rector, which means Deed happens, which means his board dies. Then I GSZ out my Ooze, and grin as he looks at the number of creatures in graveyards. I Ooze-punch and grow a little, then I think Baneslayer joins the team, and he scoops them up shortly thereafter.
This puts me to 5-2, good for 13th out of 90 and my choice of a Plateau or Badlands. I opt for Plateau, because I owned 0 Plateaus vs 3 Badlands.
After 5 fucking Emrakul decks. I hate that card so much.
But yeah, talked a bit with Louis throughout the day, and he's hopefully going to get on here. I think Iggins is the only Nic Fit player I didn't have a chance to talk to throughout the course of the day, actually. So yeah, good conversation all around. I was really sad that I was X-2 instead of X-1, because the Top 8 was stacked in my favor. Like, I think that 12-post is the only deck that I was actually scared of in the top 8. I've never played against Manaless, and certainly not with Hollywood playing it, so it's hard to say what would have happened there. Everything else was RUG, Maverick, or tribal. Such is life, though =(
Also, biggest prop on the day is hands down to Ken Adams, who found me my 4th and final Korean Veteran Explorer, completing my set. Feels soooooooo good to have that done.
So yeah. Now that I've been typing for the past hour and a half, I'm going to stop. I'll probably make another post this afternoon to reply to everyone and provide thoughts to the posts that were made over the weekend. For now, though, I'm going to rest my arms a bit, lol.
Last edited by Arianrhod; 09-10-2012 at 12:32 PM.
Missed the two Towers, I'm guessing 2?, but overall the deck looks swell. I was a bit tentative on the Rusalka, but looks like you got to use it for a game saving Rector sac. I'm interested to see if it is good enough to stick around. Diabolic Intent also looks like it needs to hop into my deck, especially since it can potentially grab an essential card when SnT is played.
I've been rolling with 4x GSZ since putting in Viridian Emissarys and have enjoyed the consistency.
Congrats on a winning record against Emrakul decks, haha
Oops, yeah, forgot to put the Towers in. 2, as usual. My manabase hasn't changed in months, nor do I anticipate it changing.
@arianrhod
thanks for the report
I'm wondering, why are you not playing 1x karakas in main or sideboard atleast?
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