The best ones I would think are Wall of Blossoms and E Witness. The card advantage that they provide is simply awesome.
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Thanks a million Arianrhod! Its like reading my thoughts insights and believes, could have been my text really! I see you can see the essence and greater picture and not only in magic, but in the understanding of the mind and motivation.
That is EXACTLY what I ment by preffered playstyle, it really is important though one should keep his or her eyes open since you know what you know. And some are still finding out but unaware.
@Greenpoe
Indeed if I want natural order I need more green creatures- solely show and tell is just very weak game two if you are not sure it will resolve meaning that therapy has a bigger role in your opening hand. You just dont want to face an extirpate on show and tell when you boarded a whole package for it. If you cab protect it's just broken.
I love alters but you can only succeed on x opponents since for instance show and tell decks are much more viable, and with an alter it will be a weaker version, again broken versus some
I might swap to alter in a more creaturebased deck, like thracktusk.
If it aint viable I'll have to stick to haters and protectors
Im convinced that a transformational sidedboard is much more in place though since the engine opens so many options.
But one thing you really really have to keep in mind, if your engine gets broken what is your next plan?
DECK:Combo Control - BUG w EXP
Well wall of blossoms hust slows you down for one turn, its a chump blocker but doesnt do anything and is only good versus some decks that want to attack. Eternall witness however is very good.
Though as GSZ target maybe go on the exalted line, you will have ramp and disrupt.
So hierarch, dryad arbor, quasali. That way you can still ramp even without veteran explorer, give a early clock and then take control or dump a bomb
So it works the other way around, not sure if it works out well
Makes me think back of a concept of cephalid constable (the one deck that actually played tarmagoyf!) an with the key card riding the dilu horse
DECK:Combo Control - BUG w EXP
I posted my physical Rector build in pimp thread, if anyone wants to see what it looks like. Scapewish isn't pimp enough to post yet, and BUG is still in the developmental stages, really, so Rector's the only one I can really post atm.
We talking pimp here? I got some moderately played Deeds and a foil Broodmate! How's that for pimp?!
@Arianrhod
In your list Im kind of missing dat of the dragons, have you concidered that card?
DECK:Combo Control - BUG w EXP
I love Stronghold Tower. Especially with Persist creatures like Finks and Primus.
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Woodfall Primus
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Intuition
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Unburial Rites
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Wasteland
1 Karakas
4 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacomb
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
Have you considered a single life from the loam? Either in SB/MB, because it looks really strong with the utility lands and makes it much easier to recur those apart from witness. Looks like an interesting list, can you apply enough pressure with only so few creatures?
I don't fully disagree with you, as I definitely play better when I'm having fun, but I do think Queerios's explanation is more valuable.
When a person does better with a preferred card, it's not necessarily due to that preference. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
"Playing the cards I like makes me confident," is a better reason, but the flipside is that your confidence issue is probably rooted in something. This insecurity will hurt your game in the long run, and offer a cop out every time you don't fully understand something you need to learn to get better as a player--"It doesn't fit my play style." That cop out doesn't exist in Queerios's interpretation of preferences.
In many cases, people don't understand why a card is in a deck. They might do well with the deck despite this, but they're probably better off exchanging the cards for others. If a player doesn't bring in his Mindbreak Traps because "they're blue and I'm playing a red deck," they're better off boarding Thorn of Amethyst, even if Mindbreak is a better card for the given metagame.
This is a simple example, but you can extrapolate how, as the cards and interactions get more subtle and sophisticated, so might our (in)ability to understand the reasons for things. I have friends that love casting Liliana, and others that don't. I also have friends that can reliably beat Jace with a Lili. If I were to draw a venn diagram of my friends that don't like Lili and those that can reliably beat a jace with one, it would just be a pair of non intersecting circles.
Cards gain and lose value depending on how well you can craft a plan around them, and a maser craftsman should be able to use every tool at his disposal. If you only craft book shelves as a hobby and you have no need to make anything else but book shelves, then there's no harm in maintaining a limited toolbox, but pretending that's all you or anyone else needs to be a full fledged carpenter is naive.
Angel's Mercy might feel good, and make you more confident, but odds are if you think you're winning more because of it you're missing something.
wow, impressive!
Correlation always implies some sort of causation. That's the point of being a scientist. Just because it is not the obvious answer doesn't mean there is not a conclusion you can draw. Even if you cannot draw a direct relationship between the parameters, it does not mean it is not there. Correlation is the motivation to show that a causation is present.
An example of this is RUG Delver. RUG was heavy on the Stifle plan about 6 months ago. Now, Stifle is absent from almost every list. Is that because Stifle is a bad card in this meta? Maybe. It could also be that Stifle is a very complex card and requires a high skill level to use effectively; most people throw their Stifles at fetches without thinking carefully about how important the card is. Or it could be that players are playing around the Stifle fetchland plan so RUG pilots thought the card was too weak because the more subtle uses we're not immediately obvious. Or maybe it's all three. In fact, we definitely know all of these are reasons that the majority of RUG pilots have moved away from Stifle. Granted this specific example is reverse correlation but all the situations give motivations for the causation of "Cut Stifle".
I think part of the objection is the idea that Liliana is required to play Nic Fit, something that Kevin has proven to be untrue. Why should you play a card if it does not actually work with your plan? Nic Fit in particular is a relatively flexible deck and can conform to the plan you try to mold for it. Liliana promotes a specific play style. If you don't take advantage of what she is trying to do, what is the point of playing her? In general, Liliana is a parasitic card: she totally transforms the game state but she does it without winning directly. She takes resources from you but does not necessarily provide you with an outlet to win. To me, this indicates that she requires more thought to effectively use that just tight play.
Do you guys think that a crop rotation sideboard plan would be any good? Like a maze of Ith, a wasteland, a bojuka bog, stuff like that? You will still lack combo hate sadly I guess...
No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation
The opposite belief, correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship. The fallacy is also known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin for "with this, therefore because of this") and false cause. It is a common fallacy in which it is assumed that, because two things or events occur together, one must be the cause of the other. By contrast, the fallacy, post hoc ergo propter hoc, requires that one event occur after the other, and so may be considered a related fallacy.
I would like to summon the powers of Logic.
Sorry, back to your decks.
www.xkcd.com/552
Like the screentip says, correlation may not imply causation, but it bats its eyes and furtively suggests it. Whether its just a tease or actually means something is up to the observers discretion.
Anyhow, gifts or intuition? Which works better with unburial rites?
Last edited by EpicLevelCommoner; 09-15-2012 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Cursed Kindle! Y U make random misspellings?
Eh non-dredge combo pretty much dies to a healthy heaping of Duress, Seize, Therapy, some kind of extirpate/Surgical Extraction, and maybe a Chalice of the Void. The only time when they don't lose with that is when they get godhands.
You also forgot the most important land for us: Karakas ;).
Anyhow, now that you mention it, I might run Crop Rotation over something for the Stronghold Tower Build. Being able to set up both lands more quickly enables me to cycle witness and therefore maintain control of the board more easily.
Gyah! So many good ideas, so very few chances to test them out! :(
Intuition lets you do: *turn 2 iona for example
*card you want to cast
Unburial Rites
Gigapede
-(makes sure you have both your *card and unburial rites in the graveyard)
-(good versus Jace)
With explorer in play:
3x Therapy / often game
Acts as a tutor
(ex.)*3 deeds
Im not fammiliar with gifts enough to make packages with that.
DECK:Combo Control - BUG w EXP
Double post, sorry. Please delete :(
One of the few decks I am interested in picking up. Can anyone help me with a matchup analysis of my meta?
Sneak Show (Last tourney my brother played 4 of 'em in 6 rounds, I played 3.)
RUG
U/R Delver
Thresh
Reanimator
Dredge
Merfolk
Goblins
Affinity
Burn
MUD
Monoblack Variants (MBC, Sui Black)
Enchantress
T.E.S.
What version of Nic Fit do you plan playing?
Caleb called me Queerios again... lol
@All of those working on NO Fit,
I think a Bant shell sporting Oracles, Shardless, and FoW would be a good idea for a NO Prog plan.
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Back to the playstyle argument,
Don't take what I am about to say here wrongly, but if your desire in playing Legacy is to win, then I believe there is such a thing as the right deck with the right cards to be played at the right time. Playstyle becomes a measure of your limitations and/or ignorance of the Legacy format when it influences your decisions about deck/card choices. Limitations can include your degree of tolerance to go against your personal preferences for the sake of winning (AKA, how important is "having fun", or how you define it).
In my previous post, I stated that playstyle comes into play when you choose what deck to play, but shouldn't interfeer with what cards you choose to play. I said that because I have invested enough time and effort into the deck archetype to understand that anything could work, but not everything would work.
The fact that I stated it that way shows that despite my knowledge of the Legacy metagame, which is not bad at all, isn't nearly as good as my knowledge of the Nic Fit archetype. Wether or not it be my desire to have fun that overwhelms my desire to win, I originaly chose and recognized Nic Fit as a meta predator against RUG and Maverick. The initial drive that caused me to pick up the deck was my desire to win against a certain meta, not because I enjoyed watching old black men die in a "thought-extraction" ritual.
As far as my personal playstyle goes, I hate non-interactive decks with a passion, I traditionaly don't play blue decks at all either, and I enjoy playing decks I brewed or that are completely alien to my opponent. This being said, I can play High Tide, Storm, Maverick, and many other decks that I thoroughly dread playing, better than a lot of people. This is probably because I try to play the decks I want to beat before I actualy try to beat them. In turn, it also makes me a good player overall and it adds greatly to my ability to play Nic Fit.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
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