[Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

[pippo84]

I really disagree with that. There are at least 4 Archetypes that "try to win the game by putting a fatty into play".

Hypergenesis
Sneak and Show
Elfrakul
Reanimator
Stiflenought

There are already all these decks that do the same thing (probably better), and 3 of them win with Emrakul. So, why all you "squeeze your brains" to built something that has already been built ? As you say "The point here is that winning games is the only thing we should try to do".
I give the answer : Because you want to create something DIFFERENT. And the difference is not S&T.
I insist that the OLNY viable way to drive this deck, is the monogreen version. With all the advantages (speed) and disadvantages (loses from combos). Green Sun's Zenith make me think hard, and I find that helps a lot. If you add Blue (without counters as i see in the last decklists), or other color probably in the future, this is no more Turbo Eldrazi. Its something else.

If you win by Show and Tell and you feel that your deck rocks, stop feeling that. Its an illusion. Its not the deck, its just the card (S&T) that is so powerful. So, if you probably win by 85% with S&T, why dont you invigorate that by adding some Personal Tutors ? Just a thought. Some Spell Pierce, some Force of Will, some Flusterstorm maindeck, probably Omniscience, and you have something stronger.

Vacrix suggests Knight of the Reliquary, Magus of the Candelabra, Oracle of Mul Daya. He dont understand that all these cards are crap for this deck. With so few Forests in the deck, Knight is not so strong. You dont use Wasteland, and you cant play again your sacrificed lands because you dont have Crucible of Worlds. Are you willing to lose some priceless Forest Mr.Vacrix that probably help you to cast Primeval Titan just to bring a Karakas? It has no haste... so you must wait 1 turn. Use Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying. Your opponent cannot counter all your land searchers as you say. You have 11 of them...

You need a thought? Take a thought... GSZ to Painter's Servant. Make Emrakul Green Plus 4 Grindstones plus 3-4 Trinket Mage for Grindstone or Candelabra or Sensei or Expedition Map, and you have an alternative win condition.

What makes me laugh is that you yell against S&T, but then you run it in your SB as by the list you posted!!

Anyways I agree, I'm new to this deck and want to try it because it seems good fun and I prefer the UG version, but WITHOUT S&T. This card makes the deck look horrible! Blue should be for Brainstorm, Repeal, Trinket Mage, not a card that makes the deck dumb and ugly.

Why have you passed from 4 Expedition Map to just 1?

Thanks!

[Rock Lee]

Anyways I agree, I'm new to this deck and want to try it because it seems good fun and I prefer the UG version, but WITHOUT S&T. This card makes the deck look horrible! Blue should be for Brainstorm, Repeal, Trinket Mage, not a card that makes the deck dumb and ugly.

Why have you passed from 4 Expedition Map to just 1?

Thanks!

Because I like dumb and ugly if it wins.

[pippo84]

Because I like dumb and ugly if it wins.

I was expecting an answer like this one from you.

Just wanted to know if the deck can be competitive even without S&T...

Anyways I still haven't tested the deck and I will try it tonight.

[Rock Lee]

I was expecting an answer like this one from you.

Just wanted to know if the deck can be competitive even without S&T...

Anyways I still haven't tested the deck and I will try it tonight.

I really don't know why you would expect anything other than an illogical answer when you are not using logic in your own analysis. Both you and MeddlingMageBR attack Show & Tell as being "ugly" and "dumb" when it has been proven to be extremly strong and effective.

And yet you then ask about other aspects of the deck based off their viability and utility. I don't make patchwork decks. Every card is contingent on the other 74. It is a common misconception of players who are not adept at deckbuilding that you can simply add/subtract in one variable/card and linearly improve/decrease the matchups/weaknesses. Decks are symbiotic constructs. If you alter even the smallest part it affects the organism as a whole.

Thus, sneering at one aspect, especially having never tested the deck or performed well with it, insults the entire design and the efforts put into it.

[TheBoozeCube]

Show & Tell really isn't very good in 12-Post anyway. To make it work, you need to play a lot of fatties to make sure you have one in hand alongside S&T. I think one of Post's biggest advantages is that you get away with playing just a couple of creatures and tutor them up when you're ready (I run 4 - 2x Kozilek, 1x Ulamog, 1x Emrakul). This leaves a lot more space for acceleration, defense, and answers.

Besides, this is an archetype that can hardcast an Eldrazi almost as fast as S&T anyway. I regularly cast Kozilek on turn 3 and Emrakul on turn 4. Why spend a card to cheat them into play and miss the casting trigger? (Unless, of course, you're doing it off an opponent's S&T..)

[mistercakes]

i think you guys are missing the point. rock lee has been putting up results with his lists. why not just try it out. show and tell on a primeval titan when your opponent is trying to just keep using wasteland and discard to keep you honest seems really unfair and that's what the deck needs to do to keep up with some of these other decks in the meta.

i'm not saying you need show and tell to accomplish these things, but wouldn't it be nice to just come out of nowhere and win the game even when the first degenerate strategy gets there a lot of the time anyway?

[(nameless one)]

Hi Rock Lee,

My friend wants to rebuild his Modern pre-banning 12-post to Legacy. He doesn't have Show and Tells, Tropical Islands and Candelabras. He wondering if Magus of the Candelabra (along with Green Sun's Zenith) and Summoning Trap could make an acceptable alternatives.

We both understand that it will slow the deck by a turn, so he suggested Root Maze since most of the decks lands already come into play tapped. This way, you are also hurting your opponent. Would Amulet of Vigor work here as well?


Thanks. And congratulations with your top8.

[MeddlingMageGR]

I really don't know why you would expect anything other than an illogical answer when you are not using logic in your own analysis. Both you and MeddlingMageGR attack Show & Tell as being "ugly" and "dumb" when it has been proven to be extremly strong and effective.

As I said before, Show and Tell is a great card, but does not belong in this deck. I say again "If you win by Show and Tell and you feel that your deck rocks, stop feeling that. Its an illusion. Its not the deck, its just the card (S&T) that is so powerful".

Do you want your 12post, win with Show and Tell ? THIS is dump.

And some copy/paste again :

There are at least 4 Archetypes that "try to win the game by putting a fatty into play".

Hypergenesis
Sneak and Show
Elfrakul
Reanimator
Stiflenought

There are already all these decks that do the same thing (probably better), and 3 of them win with Emrakul. So, why all you "squeeze your brains" to built something that has already been built ? As you say "The point here is that winning games is the only thing we should try to do".
I give the answer : Because you want to create something DIFFERENT. And the difference is not S&T.

[HoneyT]

As I said before, Show and Tell is a great card, but does not belong in this deck. I say again "If you win by Show and Tell and you feel that your deck rocks, stop feeling that. Its an illusion. Its not the deck, its just the card (S&T) that is so powerful".

Do you want your 12post, win with Show and Tell ? THIS is dump.

And some copy/paste again :

There are at least 4 Archetypes that "try to win the game by putting a fatty into play".

Hypergenesis
Sneak and Show
Elfrakul
Reanimator
Stiflenought

There are already all these decks that do the same thing (probably better), and 3 of them win with Emrakul. So, why all you "squeeze your brains" to built something that has already been built ? As you say "The point here is that winning games is the only thing we should try to do".
I give the answer : Because you want to create something DIFFERENT. And the difference is not S&T.

Whether you Show and Tell or not, this deck also wins by putting a fatty into play.

Two more things,

One: You can try and do something DIFFERENT if you want. Build it your own way. Other people want to win. If they want to use Show and Tell to further that plan, they can. You don't need to mess with their success.

Two: This deck actually does do something DIFFERENT than the other Show and Tell decks, namely that it's not reliant on Show and Tell. This deck has a backup plan. You can't actually lose to control decks. And aggro decks can't keep up with Glimmerposts.

[Rock Lee]

Hi Rock Lee,

My friend wants to rebuild his Modern pre-banning 12-post to Legacy. He doesn't have Show and Tells, Tropical Islands and Candelabras. He wondering if Magus of the Candelabra (along with Green Sun's Zenith) and Summoning Trap could make an acceptable alternatives.

We both understand that it will slow the deck by a turn, so he suggested Root Maze since most of the decks lands already come into play tapped. This way, you are also hurting your opponent. Would Amulet of Vigor work here as well?


Thanks. And congratulations with your top8.

There are four ways to go about using the cloudpost mana base without Trops, Candelabras and Show & Tells. They are just different decks than this one.

Juan Miguel Carrascosa has done well with his rock-type cloudpost build. It is super econo minus the Tabernacle and is a blast to play.

Jorge Rubalcaba ran a Drop of Honey Summoning trap build, which I've found to be a little lacking, but still is entertainingly fun.

Eugenio Wodl's MUD build with Loci is hilarious and brave, but obviously not a control deck like I have here.

Chris Rowland did well with his heavy GSZ based build as well.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hi Rock Lee,

My friend wants to rebuild his Modern pre-banning 12-post to Legacy. He doesn't have Show and Tells, Tropical Islands and Candelabras. He wondering if Magus of the Candelabra (along with Green Sun's Zenith) and Summoning Trap could make an acceptable alternatives.

We both understand that it will slow the deck by a turn, so he suggested Root Maze since most of the decks lands already come into play tapped. This way, you are also hurting your opponent. Would Amulet of Vigor work here as well?


Thanks. And congratulations with your top8.

Amulet of Vigor is a reasonable budget option. I used to use them before I got all my Candelabras. Since multiple Amulet triggers stack, you can get some ramp out of them too.

Magus probably isn't good enough for Legacy. It's fragile and has summoning sickness. It might be ok in a heavy GSZ build.

I don't think Root Maze is where you want to go. Sure, you might slow them down a bit, but it doesn't answer anything. Post isn't a tempo deck; it's an inevitability deck. Slowing them down a turn isn't going to save you most of the time. You're better off with some real defensive cards, like Maze of Ith, or cards that advance your board position.

Don't forget about Crop Rotation, which is one of the biggest things Legacy Post gains over Modern Post. A playset costs less than $5, but it's hard to overstate the power of instant-speed land tutoring that puts the land directly into play. It's also a great way to respond to Wasteland.

[(nameless one)]

Hey TheBoozeCube,

Would you like to share your list before you got your Candelabras?


Thanks in advance.

[TheBoozeCube]

Hey TheBoozeCube,

Would you like to share your list before you got your Candelabras?


Thanks in advance.

I'll have to dig through some files on my computer to find one.

[Raystar]

Hello folks!

I have just got some games today with the deck in a small tournament (4 swiis + top4).

I sleeved the list that Rock Lee used for his Top4 at Jupiter recently minus 1 Candelabra (I only have one) that I replaced with a Trinket Mage.

This is a quick report:

Match 1 - Goblin (Monored)

G1 - The deck craps on me and I'm short on mana but manage to land a Glacial Chasm before dying. He kills my 2 Show&Telled Titans that I used to gain life and sustain Chasm but I don't find action and die.
G2 - Side in 3 Elephant Grass and Tabernacle and take out 2 Expedition Map, 1 bojuka Bog and 1 Show&Tell. No mana, no mana, no mana. Mulligan at 6, I keep with a 2-lander but I don't manage to see more lands and I die in few turns.

0:W 1:L

Match 2 - Enchantress (GW)

G1 - I can't loose this match and I win on titan for Eye of Ugin and Cloudpost. The following turn I grasp Emrakul and play it for the win.
G2 - Side in 4 Flusterstorm and 2 Spellpierce, side out 3 Pithing Needle, 1 Bojuka Bog and 2 Expedition Map. He tries to play Blood Moon when I'm 1 turn short from playing the winning Emrakul. I had had Titan fetch the basic Island, proceed to repeal the Moon...gg

1:W 1:L

Match 3 - UW Miracles

G1 - As Rock Lee says I can't loose this match. He has 1 Plains and 1 Island on the field when I S&T Emrakul and win from there.
G2 - Side out 3 Expedition Map, 1 Bojuka Bog and 1 S&T, side in 2 Venser, 2 Trinisphere and 1 Tabernacle (in case on Angels, probably not effective btw). He counters in order Titan, Titan, Ulamog. Then Terminus on casted Emrakul but I fetch it again with Eye of Ugin and he can't do anything about

2:W 1:L

Match 3 - Goblin (Monored....again)

G1 - He is fast as hell and I can't put up a defence.
G2 - Same sideboarding as before and he can't match an elephant grass plus Tabernacle
G3 - I keep an hand with 2 Cloudpost, Tropical Island, 2 Elephant Grass, S&T, Brainstorm. I want to play the tropical to do brainstorm end of turn thinking that he would save a wasteland for the "critical" lands...stupid reasoning he goes Mountain, pass. I play trop, pass. He...wasteland on trop, I brainstorm in response and fail to see another coloured source...gg for him

2:W 2:L

Even if I didn't make Top4 I liked the deck a lot, it was the first time I played it and it took a bit to get in tune with it...I lost to two decks that I didn't expect and won the expected games, I will definitely play it again.

With the suggested sideboard of 2 drop of honey instead of the two trinisphere the aggro matchup should become way easier, I'll try to get a pair for the next tournament.

Thanks Rock Lee for the well put together list, the deck is a real blast to play.

[Rock Lee]

Hello folks!

I have just got some games today with the deck in a small tournament (4 swiis + top4)..

Glad to hear it treated you well! As a suggestion against gobbos, dont' be afraid to tutor up ugin and cloudposts with no chance of paying for next turn's chasm if it will get you the win.

Lots to talk about for suggestions, but generally goblins isn't a hard matchup if you run elephant grass and tabernacle.

My current build only has 1 candelabra anyhow, went upto 4 repeal and love it.

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Forest (3)
1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 3 [MI] Cursed Totem

[Raystar]

Good catch with the Cursed Totems in the side.

I lost to Goblin because of inexperience with the deck and a bit of bad luck (plus the second goblin player topdecking like a champ :) ), I attribute those losses more to variance than the deck.

I'll try the Totems and let you know, I'm still getting acquainted to the deck and haven't started yet customizing it. I also liked the Drop of Honey tech to be honest but I guess that the Totems hose maverick a lot more.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I'm actually thinking of cutting all of the candles--they don't really seem to do that much for me. Albeit I haven't played much versus maverick/rug, but by the times candle accelerate me to the 15 mana, i wouldve gotten it 1 turn later anyways. I understand that the 1 turn can be the difference, but from my playing it just seems like candles aren't necessary. I honestly think I'm happier seeing a map than a candle most of the time. Thoughts?

[Rock Lee]

Good catch with the Cursed Totems in the side.

I'll try the Totems and let you know, I'm still getting acquainted to the deck and haven't started yet customizing it. I also liked the Drop of Honey tech to be honest but I guess that the Totems hose maverick a lot more.

Honestly, Maverick isn't a bad matchup if you play it well. The totems are there mostly for Elves. I hate. hate HATE losing to elves. its a pet peeve. and doesn't help that I lost my last two events to Elves. Rug and U/W Miracles SHOULD be knocking them back to the stone age, but you still have to play against them in big events.

Drop of honey hits both maverick and elves, so go Drop of Honey if you like it. The benefit is a slightly heightened vulnerability to Chalice @ 1 versus consistency against the decks where you'll be seeing chalice at 1, either you playing it or them.

I'm actually thinking of cutting all of the candles--they don't really seem to do that much for me. Albeit I haven't played much versus maverick/rug, but by the times candle accelerate me to the 15 mana, i wouldve gotten it 1 turn later anyways. I understand that the 1 turn can be the difference, but from my playing it just seems like candles aren't necessary. I honestly think I'm happier seeing a map than a candle most of the time. Thoughts?

I have played a build with x4 map and x0 candelabras and I found the situation of just needing to address a board state, either by playing more lands or using spells while having tons of maps, to happen too frequently. Candelabra does this well. The lowest I've done well with at a tournament was 1, and every time I've gone under 1 I have deeply regretted it. Also cards like Choke, B2B and Rishadan Port do exist, and it is your best out to them.

If you are highly insistent on playing zero candelabras, either through a budget or a general dislike of the card, I would suggest an alternate accelerant in Exploration or explore.


::EDIT::
I have a new list I'll post after my event today with some great adaptions. But I'll wait until the event I'm going to is over, since apparently the more competitive folks at my local shop actually check this thread the morning of each event to get my list! Talk about flattery! or maybe fear. Hopefully both! <3

::EDIT2:
Welp got pressured to help a landlord move out of their place instead of go to my Sunday event. So here's the latest list with the most comprehensive and adaptive sideboard. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean it is the perfect sideboard. It just has the most possible applications.

// Lands
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [U] Tropical Island
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Forest (3)
1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [M10] Pithing Needle
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [VI] Elephant Grass
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [MBS] Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void

[TheBoozeCube]

I

I'm actually thinking of cutting all of the candles--they don't really seem to do that much for me. Albeit I haven't played much versus maverick/rug, but by the times candle accelerate me to the 15 mana, i wouldve gotten it 1 turn later anyways. I understand that the 1 turn can be the difference, but from my playing it just seems like candles aren't necessary. I honestly think I'm happier seeing a map than a candle most of the time. Thoughts?

I don't know how your build looks, but I run a full playset of Candelabras and can't fathom cutting one. They let you get by with fewer posts in play, they let you untap Eye to tutor for multiple Eldrazi or get a reshuffle for Top, and they untap Maze of Ith to nerf more attackers (especially with multiple Mazes). I'm very rarely disappointed to see one.

They also do a spectacular job of accelerating you to 10-11 mana for Kozilek or Ulamog. 90% of the times that I cast one of them on turn 3 involve a Candelabra, since you can do it off of 2 Cloudposts and a Glimmerpost.

[Rock Lee]

I

I don't know how your build looks, but I run a full playset of Candelabras and can't fathom cutting one. They let you get by with fewer posts in play, they let you untap Eye to tutor for multiple Eldrazi or get a reshuffle for Top, and they untap Maze of Ith to nerf more attackers (especially with multiple Mazes). I'm very rarely disappointed to see one.

They also do a spectacular job of accelerating you to 10-11 mana for Kozilek or Ulamog. 90% of the times that I cast one of them on turn 3 involve a Candelabra, since you can do it off of 2 Cloudposts and a Glimmerpost.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I would strongly urge you to read the pages of this thread, as they discuss the pro's and con's of candelabras at all stages of the game and an overall evaluation of this card far more than your brief summary. Including multiple testimonials from several people all of who have placed well with non-4 numbers of Candelabras. Infact it has been several years since I have run 4 candelabras in Eldrazi and the deck has net'd me over 4,000$ in that time.