[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Larzdk]

On another note, how do you feel this deck will fare once RtR hits? Abrubt Decay might show up in big numbers in BUG - which might slow our acceleration down quite a lot, and if RIP/Helm becomes a deck, we might have to deal with an enchantment driven combo deck (which I think we might interact quite poorly with if they shut down Hellkite with Forcefield) - the card in itself might totally invalidate Welder - and if Helm makes it big, Null Rods might start showing up in bigger numbers.. Thoughts?

[SirTylerGalt]

My current Godo aggro build:


4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key

2 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
1 Moltensteel Dragon
1 Steel Hellkite

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
6 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls

SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 Masticore


Simian Spirit Guide is really good. It accelerates early threats / disruption, protects against Daze, and can be played as a creature if you need more threats. I won a game on the back of a Simian Spirit Guide equipped with a SoLaS.

The deck has a lot of small creatures (2/2, 2/1, 1/2) which become real threats with equipment.

Lodestone Golem, Chalice of the Void, Magus of the Moon, and Phyrexian Revoker provide the needed disruption.

-----------------

In the Forgemaster build, I'm considering 1 Null Brooch in the SB as a tech against U/W Miracles. Terminus --> tap Forgemaster, tutor Null Brooch, counter Terminus, untap Null Brooch with Voltaic Key, counter another spell.

[kingtk3]

@SirTylerGalt: I'm not a big fun of MUD with little creatures and equipments, I'd play Death and Taxes in that case.
That said, your deck contains only 29 artifacts which seem few to properly use metalworker: maybe you can split 2/2 with Thran Dynamo?


@Larzdk: I don't know if RIP/Helm will become a combo deck. I mean, the combo existed for years with Leyline but noone played it.
Surely with RIP it's easier to assemble and RIP itself is better than a drawn leyline, but I think that if these cards will be played it would be in a control shell. Against control we have a favorable matchup with all our disruption (especially revoker on helm) and acceleration, so I don't think we should suffer too much. Anyway some answers to enchantments are ratchet bomb and ward of bones.
Abrupt decay, instead, can become a problem since hits all our disruption apart the golems and the lands, and can kill a Chalice@2 too!!! Maybe running more disruption will be the answer...

[(nameless one)]

Had an issue with goblins an merfolk last night and am trying to drum up some solutions. I think the onke that makes sense to me the most is silent arbiter.

What about Steel Hellkite? It bombs goblin tokens (Krenko, Mob Boss can be a beating and it owns merfolk since most of their guys are either 1 and 2 cc.

On another note, how do you feel this deck will fare once RtR hits? Abrubt Decay might show up in big numbers in BUG - which might slow our acceleration down quite a lot, and if RIP/Helm becomes a deck, we might have to deal with an enchantment driven combo deck (which I think we might interact quite poorly with if they shut down Hellkite with Forcefield) - the card in itself might totally invalidate Welder - and if Helm makes it big, Null Rods might start showing up in bigger numbers.. Thoughts?

Abrupt Decay only hits a certain number of permanents the deck has. most of its threats have higher than 3cc. Sure it will slow you're acceleration but as long as you're playing this lands (especially the Sol Lands), you should be fine.

I am actually more worried about discard in tandem with Abrupt Decay.

On RIP/Helm combo, you can always name Helm of Obedience to Phyrexian Revoker to slow that combo down. Maybe enough time to get Hellkite to bomb the 2cc enchantment?

Also, All is Dust seems like a great catch all answer to all the issues above.

[Esper3k]

@SirTylerGalt: You probably want a playset of Great Furnaces in there to help with Metalworker and Etched Champion Metalcraft as well.

[SirTylerGalt]

@SirTylerGalt: You probably want a playset of Great Furnaces in there to help with Metalworker and Etched Champion Metalcraft as well.

@Esper3k:

Good idea. I usually avoid Great Furnaces because it is affected by Wasteland / Pulverize / Null Rod, but changing a few Mountains for Great Furnaces makes sense in this deck. And opponent Wastelands have better targets anyway.

[Larzdk]

Yeah, I don't know - time will tell. Energy field can just be a rather huge annoyance, if they aren't putting nonbasics down for us to waste. I'm going to play MUD next tuesday too, just can't really decide if I should give Zirath's build another go, or to bring my Welders.

[Zirath]

Yeah, I don't know - time will tell. Energy field can just be a rather huge annoyance, if they aren't putting nonbasics down for us to waste. I'm going to play MUD next tuesday too, just can't really decide if I should give Zirath's build another go, or to bring my Welders.

It takes a lot of time to get comfortable with MUD Stompy. I had to play it for a few months before I saw any positive results. You make an enormous number of mistakes that don't seem like mistakes.

[Larzdk]

I know, and I caught quite a few of them as I played. For example, I lost to a RUG Hypergenesis deck with 2 Chalices in my starting hand, because I had no idea what plan he was on until after the Fatties hit the board

[(nameless one)]

I think its crucial to figure out your line of play starting with your starting seven when it comes to Zirath's build as the deck does have terrible topdecks. Though arguably, his build has better stability when it comes to mid-late game because it has more stable acceleration.

Also, Buried Ruin helps this cause.

[Larzdk]

Yeah, that's true - Faithless Looting did let me keep some pretty awkward hands compared to what's workable with the pure stompy build. I guess I'm just too inexperienced with the deck to really get value out of Chalices and the other tax-effects, compared to the "easier" way of just blowing people out with Forgemaster/Welder.

[Zirath]

I think its crucial to figure out your line of play starting with your starting seven when it comes to Zirath's build as the deck does have terrible topdecks. Though arguably, his build has better stability when it comes to mid-late game because it has more stable acceleration.

Also, Buried Ruin helps this cause.

Actually, I think my top decks are fine (compared to other lists). Karn is considerably more powerful than Blightsteel Colossus. Poor top decks is part of the nature of the midrange-combo deck.

However, this is true that you need to plan out your game with your starting seven. If you look at your hand you do not see a clear set of lines keeping in mind all the plays your opponent could be making, you should consider mulliganing.

[(nameless one)]

Actually, I think my top decks are fine (compared to other lists). Karn is considerably more powerful than Blightsteel Colossus. Poor top decks is part of the nature of the midrange-combo deck.

However, this is true that you need to plan out your game with your starting seven. If you look at your hand you do not see a clear set of lines keeping in mind all the plays your opponent could be making, you should consider mulliganing.

I guess I just need to learn to play the Stompy lists more efficiently.

Zirath, which matchups do you usually consider Karn to be effective. Also, without siding-in, which matchups can you win easily?

[noobslayer]

By the way, I mentioned this before, but it bears mentioning again, we really should compile a list for the primer of all the creature type categories for Cavern of Souls.

[Greenpoe]

By the way, I mentioned this before, but it bears mentioning again, we really should compile a list for the primer of all the creature type categories for Cavern of Souls.

Here's a basic list of some of the major categories
Construct: Kuldotha Forgemaster, Metalworker, Myr Battlesphere, Silent Arbiter, Steel Overseer, Su-Chi, Triskelion
Human: Godo, Magus of the Moon
Golem: Lodestone Golem, Blightsteel Colossus, Karn, Precursor Golem, Sundering Titan, Platinum Emperion
Dragon: Steel Hellkite, MOltensteel Dragon
Shapeshifter: Duplicant, Phyrexian Metamorph

[(nameless one)]

Here's a basic list of some of the major categories
Construct: Kuldotha Forgemaster, Metalworker, Myr Battlesphere, Silent Arbiter, Steel Overseer, Su-Chi, Triskelion
Human: Godo, Magus of the Moon
Golem: Lodestone Golem, Blightsteel Colossus, Karn, Precursor Golem, Sundering Titan, Platinum Emperion
Dragon: Steel Hellkite, MOltensteel Dragon
Shapeshifter: Duplicant, Phyrexian Metamorph

Don't forget Artificer: Goblin Welder, Master Transmuter. Though, its not like the second one sees play :P

[Zirath]

I guess I just need to learn to play the Stompy lists more efficiently.

Zirath, which matchups do you usually consider Karn to be effective. Also, without siding-in, which matchups can you win easily?

Karn is strong in against Jace Decks, Slower Combo decks (ANT/TES/DD/Tide/SnT) and Midrange/Creature based aggro (Maverick/Bant/Junk). He is bad against Burn decks, Fast combo decks (Belcher/SI) and Swarm decks (Essentially all the tribal).

Which match ups can I win easily without boarding? That's a hard question. Your weak match ups game 1 are definitely RUG and UR Burn (and to a lesser extent Affinity). If they can establish an aggressive start, you can be completely crushed.

RUG is more difficult because of the switch to Pierce, which allows them to attack Grim Monolith/Dynamo/Chalice more aggressively. Daze can be played around really easily but Pierce can't, which is unfortunate because they do not produce card disadvantage.

UR Burn is a similar situation. In addition, Price of Progress is a house against us.

For Affinity, it depends on their hand. If I can stick an Emperion or Wurmcoil before Cranial Plating comes down, I can usually stop it. Karn and Revoker are both very important here. Affinity heavily depends on the draws; if they land early Plating, it's usually game if I don't have a turn 2 hand.

The deck is very difficult to play well. Some of the hands I've kept that win games are baffling to describe (2 x Thran Dynamo, 2 x Port, Mishra's Factory, Buried Ruin, Ancient Tomb against Miracles). You have to play a couple turns ahead of your opponent in order to win a lot of your games. This is a ramp deck after all and you need to have enough mana to win the game.

[L10]

Don't forget Artificer: Goblin Welder, Master Transmuter. Though, its not like the second one sees play :P

I am still working on a blue build with Master Transmuter and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Now I have two ways to cheat in fatties like Blightsteel Colossus or Inkwell Leviathan (StoneBlade killer). The problem with Master Transmuter she is that she is pretty vulnerable to removal. Lightning Greaves is pretty much needed, and giving her haste is great. She had won me some games by cheating Blightsteel Colossus, Inkwell Leviathan, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind; stuff that are not accessible in MUD Stompy. Much like Goblin Lackey, she makes blue mages rage if they can't find a removal spell. She is always useful because as long as you have an artifact at hand, she can protect something in the field; especially good if that artifact at hand is Spine of Ish Sah.

Splashing blue does give me Spellskite (for less pain) and Academy Ruins, which are also great.

Overall, I felt it had less consistency than when I played mono-brown MUD Stompy. Rishadan Port is really good in the early games when I try to set up and establish board position, as well as the late game when I shut my opponent down. A Thran Dynamo and a couple Ports goes a long way. Losing it to islands does not seem the right line of play. This is the main reason why I have not converted to Godo yet. MUD Stompy has been spectacular for me so far and I don't really see the need to lose utility lands for color fixers when I do not need to.

[noobslayer]

I think the one slot that is uncontestable if you are running way to recurr and cheat big guys into play is Sundering Titan. He is such a house, that one cycle of his abilities typically seals any game for you. No need for a combat phase.

[L10]

Yup. I have two Sundering Titans in my Transmuter list for that reason. He pretty much wins the game if you cycle him twice against a double or triple colored deck. Cycle between him and Spine of Ish Sah is devastating. I just forgot to list him. Though he is accessible to MUD Stompy, MUD Stompy can't abuse him like Transmuter. Also, he is not even needed in MUD Stompy to be honest. I don't even have him in my 75.